Lansdorp the Sage??

[johnyandell]

You can keep posting as long as you like. It's free forum but your defensiveness and arrogance just keep digging you deeper. Be my guest. A few people are emailing me curious to see just how far you'll take it.

I don't consider myself a peer of Robert and you aren't either--even if you have 6 Phds. There is such a thing as experience and he is a world class development coach with maybe a handful of equals, coaches who have developed elite grand slam champions, and who might be in a position to criticize him. Or wait, I forgot, you weren't.

It's the classic sign of the diletante to claim to be on par with someone who is at the height of the profession when they have none of the same accomplishments.

As several people have written me, at this point the pattern is obvious and you've followed it in a host of exchanges with various other subscribers and writers.

[airforce1]

You can keep posting as long as you like. It's free forum but your defensiveness and arrogance just keep digging you deeper. Be my guest. A few people are emailing me curious to see just how far you'll take it.

I don't consider myself a peer of Robert and you aren't either--even if you have 6 Phds. There is such a thing as experience and he is a world class development coach with maybe a handful of equals, coaches who have developed elite grand slam champions, and who might be in a position to criticize him. Or wait, I forgot, you weren't.

It's the classic sign of the diletante to claim to be on par with someone who is at the height of the profession when they have none of the same accomplishments.

As several people have written me, at this point the pattern is obvious and you've followed it in a host of exchanges with various other subscribers and writers.

Glad you don't mind continuing from your closet throwing bricks. You don't have one negative comment to relate that I have said, but settle on attacking me personally, while conjuring up that I have tried act as a peer. I've tried to find where I posted that I was one of the best developmental coaches of our era?? Oh, that's right, I never did that! It's the classic sign of a nut case to make false claims when the print is right there on the page to show it wrong!
I have made the point of NOT attacking you or Sejesl, even though it doesn't appear either of you can even read.

If any of your closet emailers want to post any negative comment I've written, I will welcome them. Anybody not sharp enough, that they support you on this, does not merit my concern.

I am very entitled to critique him as an instructor, just as every parent does before they hire a coach for their kids- without even needing to play the game of tennis. I get to critique this site, even though I never put forth a tennis video site. It is always widely accepted as wise as long as it is flattering, but only unqualified when taken as negative.

Just because my questions have been incorrectly taken by some, there is not much I can do other than humbly accept some of the fault for poor wording; as I did.
But John, I'm sure you still want to jump in and pile on, despite all the actual written words.

[sejsel]

Down the drain...

Straight from the closet:

.....
.....
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....Especially since parts of this marry-go-round thingy are reminiscent of some Kafka novel, or re-living that old Monty-Python parrot sketch.

[CraigC]

Away from the animosity and on to learning

I am a colleague of Robert Lansdorp, although certainly not with the track record of his professional success, something I can only aspire to. Airforce, here is my take on the reason for his success:

Very simply, the man has the best eyes in the business. He recognizes subtle flaws and has mastered techniques for correcting those technical flaws. He teaches hard penetrating ground strokes, which he calls "drives", and forces his players to hit consistently hard and deep in the court. Their shots are ingrained over many years of disciplined practice, as Robert is known to feed 12-1500 balls in an hour, often for just the forehand crosscourt. Over time, the student creates a swing pattern that simply will not break down, has good margin and consistency, and that creates a high quality shot. Robert is very tough and intense about getting the stroke exactly the way he wants it, and his intensity and gruff manner make the player focus to a higher degree than with other coaches. This manifests itself in sustained focus in practices, great technical prowess, and helps develop a mentality of intense focus under pressure.

Robert's workouts are extremely intense, and as a result, his students know they must be in shape in order to maximize their time with him. This causes them to spend extra time on fitness when away from the court, something which results in them becoming better players. Together with refined strokes, this high fitness level means they are able to repeat the quality strokes for longer periods of time than their opponents. More importantly, the confidence they gain from knowing their fitness level is high, along with the incredible consistency of their strokes, gives them the belief that they can win against anyone, and makes them difficult opponents for their adversaries. Facing relentless deep drives that don't miss makes it hard for anyone to deal with these players.

I'd also add that even in his 50's and 60's Robert has been a student of the game. Accepting Pete's reverse forehand, teaching the various finishes on the forehand stroke, and developing a better understanding of the serve, Robert has evolved with the game. Many other high level coaches of the 70's and 80's are teaching the same strokes they taught 30 years ago. Robert has adapted and as a result, continues to produce quality players. He is not averse to working with the new techniques of the modern game, and if anything, he probably has a better understanding of what is really going on in the stroke than most others, especially since his foundation was stronger than most others. The junior players he is currently working with have different strokes than the junior players of ten years ago, and the ball they are hitting is simply better.

Lastly and most importantly, Robert's ability to instill fear and intensity in his charges means they concentrate harder on his court than on other courts. While this may scare some players away, or even turn them off of the game, the ones who can persevere on his court are eminently prepared to overcome the obstacles and struggles of touring life. Robert cares deeply for his students and that is why he gives them 100% intensity at every lesson. If they don't respond accordingly, there is no reason for him to give his full effort and he has no reason to work with them. In the end, he is a blue collar guy who believes in hard work, discipline, and intensity and these are the intangibles that talented players often forego, relying instead on their talent. Consequently, when Robert works with a talented player, it creates a wonderful combination and ends with world class results.

His results speak volumes. At the end of the day, his students win, have his respect, respect him, and recognize his influence on their games. While his methods are considered harsh and often brutal, there is no questioning his success. I believe there is much to be learned from his technical expertise, but the subtleties of his mental training are probably more valuable.

This is my take after watching several of his lessons and working with many students who have worked with him.

Thanks for your inspiring tutelage Robert, even if you do call me a Son of a Bitch!

--CC

[sejsel]

Thanks for putting it so well detailed, clearly and in positive manner - some details on Lansdorp many of us already know, CraigC.

Looks pretty much like the style of work of some people I have privilege of knowing and working with. But Robert has done it over such a long course of time and been blessed with crossing his path with that of such (eventually) great players.
And very brave in dismissing any outside (clubs - club politics) influences that would eventually compromise what he wanted to achieve with those he worked with. Tennis is a selfish, individual sport, whether we liked it or not.
Much to his credit - the fact that his signature was written all over the results those players eventually achieved.
Keen eye for detail, and for what is right and wrong with technique, coupled with intensity at practice sessions and not being afraid to demand outmost of his protegés is a ( roughly ) a recipe for success, however not a guarantee.
Evolving as a coach in technical and other terms and studying the game continuously gives any coach a credit over the course of time.

I always enjoy seeing a good influence and success in coaching, Roddick's rejuvenation under Stefanki is a joy to see.

[johnyandell]

Craig,

I'll share this with Robert--he'll love it.



Air Force,

Uh, I was throwing those bricks from your front lawn through your window. You're the guy that throws them from the closet, remember?

JY

[uspta990770809]

Thanks Craig.

Thanks for that great post, Craig.
Great job of getting to the heart of the matter.
don brosseau

[airforce1]

Craig,
thanks,
I honestly appreciate your thoughtful comments directed to me in response to my questions about Roberts methods. It was really interesting to get that perspective on aspects of how he operates. Despite what some have dreamed up, I have great respect for him and what he's done in this sport, hence my questions.

John,
as we all knew, you could not find one negative comment from me to repeat about Robert, so you have to return to lame personal attacks.
But that's ok John, you've got a great site here and I mostly enjoy it. I'm not going to argue with you about which us is in the closet.

[johnyandell]

Right--not a single demonstrable negative comment amidst the negative innuendo.

Or wait maybe this is one of the positive comments that we all have (once again) misinterpreted?

Quote Air Force:

"I've seen and heard more about what an a$$ he can be, than his contribution as a coach and teacher."


Glad you won't argue and agree with me about the closet!

[airforce1]

Right--not a single demonstrable negative comment amidst the negative innuendo.

Or wait maybe this is one of the positive comments that we all have (once again) misinterpreted?

Quote Air Force:
"I've seen and heard more about what an a$$ he can be, than his contribution as a coach and teacher."

Glad you won't argue and agree with me about the closet!

So much for your closure at last, eh? LOL
And you think refusing to argue with you about your closet is agreeing?? That explains this whole problem now doesn't it?

Just can't let it go when you are caught wrong in print
and still you can't come up with one negative statement I've made about his coaching abilities! And you don't need to look very hard do you, as this all comes from on quickly written post, questioning Robert being a coach of grinders.
You are stuck with trying to claim weak "innuendo" misunderstandings from questions that I asked; that I humbly have already accepted blame for on my writing from the very start of this.

I didn't want to continue saying this type quote over and over in every post,

"The only negative comment about him from me was related to been his crass communication, which is clearly the most widely know detail about him",

because I had made it clear "several times" that it was the only negative thing I had mentioned about him and Clearly it is not a negative tennis comment that only his "PEERS" can comment on.
And Clearly it is known even by him and anyone who has seen him speak, as he spends a segment of every interview defending why his rude behavior is really Ok and he is not "really THAT bad" as everyone thinks.

Even that quote you misuse is where I'm already explaining that I have had nothing bad to say about his coaching.
I would think someone so interested in protecting him would have appreciated my refraining from bringing that type talk up each and every time that I get to point out

how you have no negative statements to quote from me about Roberts "COACHING Ability". But go ahead, keep pointing out that you make your living in print, but just can't grasp words. Oh, I forget, you do better with pictures, right? That is making more sense now.

[airforce1]

Hey, I have an idea.

Why don't we move from "he said, she said" , blame game and HS misunderstandings, to some interesting questions that deal with Roberts coaching and statements?

Like his comments on more moderate grips and how important this is for hitting thru the court.
A question - not an insult- and I didn't say he was wrong back in the day- or even state that he is wrong now-

Does Nadal's dominance (along with several others) with a more severe grip, give evidence that that Robert's take on grips may no longer be valid in the men's game?
Has he modified this position any?

thanks,

[johnyandell]

Uh, I don't think the chance of productive dialogue with you is likely. You've proven that no matter how many times your arguments are taken apart that you simply move to some other restatement of untruth. So unless you choose to go into psychotherapy and report on your progress, no.

[airforce1]

Uh, I don't think the chance of productive dialogue with you is likely. You've proven that no matter how many times your arguments are taken apart that you simply move to some other restatement of untruth. So unless you choose to go into psychotherapy and report on your progress, no.

I'm sorry JY, this wasn't directed to you. It was for people who can read or even have an original thought.

And clearly your post shows you still have no quote from me to back your moronic claims. Everytime you comeback with your personal attacks, I just continue to remind you of this.

[johnyandell]

OK thanks for the heads up.

You managed to antagonize Robert Lansdorp, Brian Gordon (which is really hard to do) and of course myself in this forum so far. But it's obviously us not you that started the problems!

Can't wait to see who abuses your innocent curiosity next.

[BrianGordon]

OK thanks for the heads up.

You managed to antagonize Robert Lansdorp, Brian Gordon (which is really hard to do) and of course myself in this forum so far. But it's obviously us not you that started the problems!

Can't wait to see who abuses your innocent curiosity next.

Fortunately, and with considerable pain, I’ve recovered from the lambasting I received, with the help of my therapist – one comment on this thread as said therapist needs to make a boat payment this month - I must say this statement is impressive.

"I have to laugh given my background as a consultant and professionally trained instructor and evaluator in several disciplines far more technical than tennis will be in the next 50 years."

To understand, let alone instruct, concepts more complex than how the human system executes arguably the most complex set of motor skills in sport, let alone life, is truly worthy of praise - almost unearthly.

Some of the greatest minds in human history have barely scratched the surface of many of the processes: sensory integration, cognitive compilation, motor control integration, neuromuscular biodynamics, muscle physiology manifestation, not to mention the motor learning and psychological influences – all things we in the fairyland of sports science seek to understand - you must teach and evaluate some complex stuff.