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Kudos

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  • Kudos

    I have made amazing progress in my game recently thanks to your site. The things that help me might help your other readers. Possibly you could consider a new section based on common themes if you agree, based on Federer forehand & Safin/Agassi backhand observations, but consistent to most of the players I observed.

    1. Every single pro has a starting ready position with the upper torso angled FORWARD about 30 degrees, putting the butt slightly back, and stays there through most of the backswing. Many of us amateurs stand too straight, causing great exaggerated problems as the swing progresses.

    2. This is important because EVERY player takes advantage of the angle that setup created from upper torso along the rear bodyline: upper torso to back hip to back upper leg to power that rear side through the shot, through both rotation and extension (rotating hip through as body on this side extends, straightening the back leg and reducing this hip "angle" to zero in many cases). I consider this the "engine" of the modern swing; especially witness Federer, Safin but also most others - Sharapova, etc. This rear engine move slightly precedes and drives the rotation of the upper body fluidly.

    3. The upper torso, including shoulders, wraps around this engine on the backswing, with some flexing of the rear leg down as much as reasonably possible loading before the shot.

    4. Now for the most amazing observation: the "footwork", a word I used to hate because it was so vague. I believe Federer "feels" that power rotation/extension of upper torso & especially rear "engine" move alluded to above so completely he simply takes what each shot gives him - whether it drives him back, side, or forwards, & makes sure he powerfully & consistently releases from that power engine move the same basic way each time:

    forward: on these shots he has the most time or natural court position to most completely drive that rear "engine" power so weight is maximized forward & so is rotation; probably more forward drive and rotation than any player in history. On either slow pace, or short balls; the other shots he hits (below) force his opponents sooner or later to hit this kind of ball, he often places R foot in front of L to land on L at contact as the rear engine releases:

    The shot itself: 1 starts from the strong rear hip angle "engine" as footwork delivers him to ball & drives that rear engine into the front leg (because he has time & the ball is forward) with so much rear hip angle rotation and extension you can literally see all the weight go not only onto the front leg, but you can see the front foot itself rotate onto the left side, before pushing off to land 45 degrees to the left while the R foot travels in front and to the right for landing. He does this shot over and over, usually with that R "reverse carioca" like step to get the weight easily driven, and he varies that step to get around balls for his inside out forehand, or to get foreward sideways more easily.

    sideways: next most common pattern, here he has less time, usually is moving laterally to his R to hit a forehand, drives that same rear engine starting upper torso hip upper leg angle/hip move completely, but entirely off the R foot since there is less time, this move rotating his upper torso & hip towards the net, landing on the R foot first as feet come around parallel or slightly left of parallel to net with left foot front & left landing momentarily after. Its the same "engine", same idea, but since the shot gives him insufficient time for his favorite move, he makes sure to retain full release of that rear upper torso/hip/upper leg; the fact its exactly opposite weight wise (landing totally on R foot instead of totally on left makes the "best of the situation, powering him forward at least via the push off towards the net, and because he retains that power rear move matters very little! Very offensive shot, often a winner.

    back: balls that drive him backward further illustrate this constant - he drives that rear hip engine but since the shot is forcing him back, to do so he lands on his L foot far behing the R foot! Again, he makes sure his feet do whatever it takes to let that rear upper torso hip leg angle rotate and extend around, adjusting his footwork to the dictates of the shot vs. his time to hit it.

    The entire game is a battle to always release this rear upper torso /hip/ upper leg rotation- extension; back on defensive shots creates a great deep ball that is hard for an opponent to take advantage of, and against many players is actually an offensive shot or sets up a short ball he then kills with his forward move; side is quite offensive and finishes off many points or sets up a short ball for the forward move. The forward move is genius - when he applies that rear "engine" rotation/extension hip and leg drive into his left leg and foot, rotating the body through and around even off the left leg and foot he is coming from low body position to high and powerfully accurately driving the ball down either line. I believe the dictates of his opponents shot create this footwork for him naturally, and also naturally affect the kind of finish through the ball. Since he is so great he in addition to all this, manages to decide what kind of upper body arm finish to give the ball varying the spin at will, but that is the coup de grace, not the fundamental in my opinion anyway.

    Now watch Agassi or Safin on their backhand. The rear engine drive is obvious, with Safin especially rotating that rear side from low to high into the front leg, continuing to drive forward and around until the left leg actually angles to the right. Agassi will even push off the back with that same engine move & hit balls where both feet are driven backwards on a deep ball, but his preferred move is almost the mirror image of Federers forehand short ball, moving into his front leg with a strong rear upper body/hip/upper leg rotatiion/extension.

    Conclusion: I tried starting with that rear angle, and rotating and extending through ball, it feels natural, is quickly "loaded" & gives great power and control to the swing. 1using the "pro starting position", making sure I dont just stand up straight on my backswing but retain that rear engine upper torso, hip, upper leg angle; 2 see if the shot gives me forward sideways or rear movement requirements; 3 drive the rear pwer move" via appropriate footwork to the front preferred, side or rear movement as necessary. Whether coming forward, hitting off same side leg, or driving backward to opposite leg, this is powering my game much better now. Im not sure but I think I see that power rear setup & movement in Macenroe's serve as well as your other observations.

    I have a lot to learn, sometimes am awkward recognizing the situation, but I am starting to make combinations, occasionally the forward move, frequently the side move, and the back move is saving me, because I had a lot of problems holding the baseline trying to hit those deep balls with any authority before. And I am starting to have footwork that is really helpful, and on each of the above shots find my body facing into the next shot much more readily as well!

  • #2
    Originally posted by visionxcl

    1. Every single pro has a starting ready position with the upper torso angled FORWARD about 30 degrees, putting the butt slightly back, and stays there through most of the backswing. Many of us amateurs stand too straight, causing great exaggerated problems as the swing progresses.

    2. This is important because EVERY player takes advantage of the angle that setup created from upper torso along the rear bodyline: upper torso to back hip to back upper leg to power that rear side through the shot, through both rotation and extension (rotating hip through as body on this side extends, straightening the back leg and reducing this hip "angle" to zero in many cases). I consider this the "engine" of the modern swing; especially witness Federer, Safin but also most others - Sharapova, etc. This rear engine move slightly precedes and drives the rotation of the upper body fluidly.

    3. The upper torso, including shoulders, wraps around this engine on the backswing, with some flexing of the rear leg down as much as reasonably possible loading before the shot.
    Visionxcl, Hi,
    your post is a very good one, in my opinion the spirit to share the motiv of the own improvement: is very very nice.
    I agree with you 100% about point one. With the explanations of our TennisPlayer teachers, we understood that balance is a great part of an reliable and effective shot.
    So your observation is spot-on.
    My idea is that the upper torso have to move differently related to the moment in question. At ready position like you said, but at the contact point they are stiff and balanced like statues, and the torso is really up and vertical nearly perpendicular to the ground.
    In my opinion, in order to really explain balance, we need a differentiation between footwork and the upper torso. From the waist up and from the waist down.
    Another point I am with you 100% is that we need a section about common themes between ATP players.

    Are you sure that all the things you describe about footwork are made by Federer by purpose? That really seems tought to learn.
    Marco.

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    • #3
      A lot to think about... the relationships between the hips the shoulders and the arms is complex and problematic in terms of producing the stroke. If the hips move first how do we make this happen? My own opinion is that this engine deal you are describing (like the term!) unwinds on it's own if the set up is right and I think we need to think about the hand as the mechanism--even if the hips start first...again this analysis probably goes beyond the limits of qualititative analysis. I spoke to my friend Brian Gordon today--he's got an article coming up that is going to introduce a whole new way of doing quantitative analysis. Any body up for getting wired up to his 3D computer??

      Comment

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