Tennis Channel Tips - More harm that good?

[djlancejordan]

After reading this very useful and detailed article on the approach shot it occurred to me that those 1 minute clinics on Tennis Channel could be doing more harm than good.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_performance/gene_mayer/the_forcing_approach/the_forcing_approach%20.html

This did a great deal to help me understand what I should be trying to accomplish with the approach shot as well as how to effectively learn how to produce it in a controlled way.

Obviously strategies and strokes are much more complex than what can be thoroughly explained in a 1 minute clip. I had a match yesterday where I was either late getting to, or plain missed the short balls instead of being able to attack them. I had been thinking of the video clip on TS that talked about hop steps and such, but did nothing to explain the deeper more important elements of the approach shot.

I have gotten some occasional help from those tips, but more about simple training ideas or one isolated element of a stroke perhaps. There tag line always tells you to got to TennisChannel dot com for more "tips" but it should really say something like.... don't try to over simplify or confuse yourself with this half truth with this tidbit, it will probably do you more harm then good! Instead, go to tennisplayer.net and get some real useful information regarding particular strokes, footwork, strategy etc.

On the good side, I did find out about Tennisplayer.net on TS and will make sure to do more research if any of those 1 min clinics provoke thought on part of my game that needs help. (most of it )

[johnyandell]

I think it's less the length of the information than the quality. A while back we did a bunch of one minute clinics for tc using our high speed footage and I think they were pretty good. Ok really good. If you go to the video archive on the tennischannel website there is still one there on the one-handed backhand.

In general there is a wide range of opinion on virtually every issue in stroke and strategy production.

That article by Gene is great, and I like to think that one of the things that makes Tennisplayer special is the credibility of the information and of our writers.

But yeah, the sport is complex and you need more than a minute to really understand any of the many many complex issues. So thanks for the great words!

[djlancejordan]

Thanks Johnny... yeah I agree with you about quality.
I just read this useful section debunking the wrist snap on the serve.
If Roddick and Federer don't snap the wrist, they why on earth should
anyone else? Of course TC can't stop running the 1 min clinic encouraging
people to snap the wrist. Again I feel that clinic did more harm than good for me on my serve. Today I was playing a weak opponent friend of mine and
it was very hot outside so i was playing very relaxed. I wasn't trying to snap any wrists or do anything special on my serve, just relax and put it in the box.
Ironically, I felt my service motion was very easy and i was getting decent spin and pace on the serve in a very comfortable way. Gonna try to remember to keep lose and relaxed from now on! Just goes to show you can sometimes learn more even by playing someone below your level!

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/tour_strokes/bungalow_bill/waves_and%20_the%20_myth_wrist/waves_and%20_the%20_myth_wrist.html

[mntlblok]

Wrist snap in the serve

Hmmm. Did I mis-read what Brian Gordon wrote about the wrist in the serve??

Kevin
Savannah

I just read this useful section debunking the wrist snap on the serve.
If Roddick and Federer don't snap the wrist, they why on earth should
anyone else? Of course TC can't stop running the 1 min clinic encouraging
people to snap the wrist. Again I feel that clinic did more harm than good for me on my serve.
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...yth_wrist.html

[johnyandell]

I couldn't answer what you misread. Did you think Brian said to break the wrist forward like in the tennis tip on TC without any rotation of the hand, arm, or racket? Did you see the tip?

[mntlblok]

I couldn't answer what you misread. Did you think Brian said to break the wrist forward like in the tennis tip on TC without any rotation of the hand, arm, or racket? Did you see the tip?

Oops. I assumed too much. I was thinking of a recent discussion with an old (85 years old) tennis pro about the wrist in the serve and how I had to back off some after seeing Brian's series and how much the wrist snap (I may have the terminology way wrong here) had to do with the power in the stroke. I did not see the TC tip. Mea culpa.

Kevin

[johnyandell]

For the record, what the numbers show is the forward flex contributes to racket head speed--something no one has disputed. What Brian has said is that there is muscle contraction associated with that. He's probably right though others say those muscles fire as a result of other motions. Either way is fine with me--my point is that whatever the science and however you describe it, you want your arm moving through positions consistent with good serving--a big forward break after the hit and no rotation isn't that.

[mntlblok]

I couldn't answer what you misread. Did you think Brian said to break the wrist forward like in the tennis tip on TC without any rotation of the hand, arm, or racket? Did you see the tip?

Just saw the tip in question and realized that I had seen it a while back - and was amazed back then that a pro would be showing something like that. Wow.

Kevin

[bottle]

How People Take It

Ha! This is big (JY, posts # 5 and 7). I've always felt the trouble with tennis instruction (even of the top rare, most brilliant variety), is that people can take it too many ways.

Specifically, here and everywhere, HOW PEOPLE TAKE THE ADVICE IS ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS. And as many a wag has noticed, if people can possibly misunderstand something, they will-- and probably every time.

Wrist vs. forearm as bigger contributor? Wrist wins (Brian and others). But innocents never take this to mean you must do both. And then they may think-- and even find reinforcing videos or photo sequences-- that wrist must extend straight but no more than that (and there are great servers who do this, e.g., Pancho Gonzalez). Others really hump the wrist after contact like Boris Becker.

The significant mistake would be to have the wrist pull the ball down. If it's contributing to upward rotation it's okay, and whatever it does next is much less important.

But this still doesn't address the great question wherever tennis turns to technique-- sequence or simultaneity? Allen Fox, in his writings suggests wrist first then pronation (but I take this from a two-frame photo sequence only). My great old friend Jack Groppel meanwhile suggests you should list these actions with a third, arm extension, and you oughtn't decide that one goes before the others because, despite very good scientific research, nobody knows.

Everyone has to decide these things for himself, using too many brain cells. So a new idea, no matter how terrible, will always be welcome. I, like
Jack, my buddy (whoops, he just said he doesn't know me), will opt for more mystery, not less on this one.

[synergy]

tennis tips

How bad is the one of Martin van Daalen and the backhand approach shot?? The one of the "wrist snap" is terrible as well.

[bottle]

Positive Thoughts

On the positive side, Gene Mayer's article really does seem right on. Other authors who are especially good on approach shot are Pancho Segura and John M. Barnaby.

All three cover the same basics. Additionally, however, Segura stresses sidespin that breaks out. That would be fast slice hit with one's backhand down the line (probably with a carioca step) and a kind of pushed (clobbered?) forehand down the line which contrary to what you might think, doesn't have to swing racket from right to left but just the opposite yet still can create outward break. Maybe he was thinking of his own two-hand forehand-- pretty unique-- but perhaps there is a way to achieve this goal with other genres of FH. A Federfore is going to break left, it seems to me, and a reverse forehand is going to jump up. The answer with the Federfore is to hit it hard.

Barnaby thinks a high forehand should be clobbered (DTL of course since approach shots are what we're talking about) but if the ball is low is more open to chip and charge. The amount of racket work can vary inversely
to linear speed of body-- no? The other thing Barnaby stresses is where the ball ought to land, and here he has a personal opinion not everybody has to agree with. (Personally speaking, I love it). He says, "Do not aim very deep. This is surprising to most people. They are sure that a deep shot is the best, and so they aim deep. The ball goes out-- again and again... (since) you are sweeping in with the shot...you are taking a considerable calculated risk with the sideline; it is unwise also to risk the baseline."

[kmoranon]

lousy tennis tips

I teach a bunch of top juniors in the SoCal area, I do not have tennis channel with my Time Warner cable service ,but one of the parent of a kid I teach always comes to me and tells me about the stuff he sees on Tennis Channel.. then to make things worse ,he tries to teach that stuff to his 14 yrs old.. one of the truly bad advice that he seems to have giving to his son ,is for the boy to toss the ball about 4 ft into the court and then snap his wrist to hit the serve.. the boy is no 6+ footer like most of the ATP pros ,but the father hears this stuff on Tennis Channel and tells his son to do this crap.. I try to explain to the dad that his son is not physically developed yet to do those things the pros do,but every month or so the kid tells me his dad is at it again... the dad is always impeding on the son's gradual progress .. and then he wonders why his son is not winning as much as he should...

[johnyandell]

yep a little incorrect knowledge, combined with a little arrogance and over involvement in the outcome of a child's matches...that's a familiar scenario.