Nadal Vs Federer

[uspta146749877]

Reflexive genius

Watching the OZ final I was pretty pleased w/ Fed's play through 4 sets.

And I think the stats bear me out on this. Here are the stats through those 4 (I added the set-by-set stats at ausopen.org. They were missing break point stats for set #3, but I found those in an article on the web and added them in. It's possible that those are incorrect.)

NADAL FEDERER
1st Serve % 63% 52%
Aces 3 11
Double Faults 4 4
Unforced Errors 39 50
Winning % on 1st Serve 63% 75%
Winning % on 2nd Serve 46% 45%
Winners (Including Service) 45 65
Receiving Points Won 39% 44%
Break Point Conversions 42% 32%
5/12 6/19
Net Approaches 58% 71%
(15/26) . (39/55)

Total Points 146 158

I think these stats are about as positive for Fed as anyone would hope for, except for 1st serve %, where he's normally about 10 points higher or more. But, then again, Nadal is often close to 10 points higher as well on that score.

Of course, the 5th set was another matter altogether. But, weirdly, Fed should have LIKED the way the match was going, statistically speaking.

I remember watching Alex Rodriguez hit when he was going for his 500th home run (I think thats' what it was). And he went into an awful slump, not hitting a home run for something like 35 games (I'm probably wrong about the number, but you get the idea).

The combination of Nadal's play/attitude (which Federer finds impenetrable in some way), and the big #14...if those take just a hair off Fed's own attitude and reflexive genius by adding tension...well, those look to me to be what created the 5th set debacle. And then he just fell off the table.

The thing that stood out for me in the match, other than the playing, was how, when Nadal looked discouraged at times, he looked to his box. They appeared to provide him with a kind of collective strength that he needed to persevere. By contrast, in his time of trouble, Fed did not have another resource that he looked to for psychological/emotional/spiritual support. His game has always had another "gear." But Nadal's psyche has another gear...supported by his team. Perhaps Federer could look to emulate that...or is that a cultural difference...the Mediterranean culture's collectivism vs. the more northern, more restrained approach? Fed does seem to have family/group that he is very close to. But he doesn't seem to have another place to reach down into in his soul when crunch-time arrives, the way Nadal does.

All very impressionistic, this last. But, after looking at the stats from the first 4 sets, I don't think that the W or the L here was about their games: Sure Fed had to play a higher-risk game, but he did it well, under immense pressure, for 4 sets. It wasn't 'til his psyche gave out that his game gave way.

Hi,
could you explain the phrase "reflexive genius"
at least in a context above?

[uspta146749877]

Break point conversions

Watching the OZ final I was pretty pleased w/ Fed's play through 4 sets.

And I think the stats bear me out on this. Here are the stats through those 4 (I added the set-by-set stats at ausopen.org. They were missing break point stats for set #3, but I found those in an article on the web and added them in. It's possible that those are incorrect.)

NADAL FEDERER
1st Serve % 63% 52%
Aces 3 11
Double Faults 4 4
Unforced Errors 39 50
Winning % on 1st Serve 63% 75%
Winning % on 2nd Serve 46% 45%
Winners (Including Service) 45 65
Receiving Points Won 39% 44%
Break Point Conversions 42% 32%
5/12 6/19
Net Approaches 58% 71%
(15/26) . (39/55)

Total Points 146 158

I think these stats are about as positive for Fed as anyone would hope for, except for 1st serve %, where he's normally about 10 points higher or more. But, then again, Nadal is often close to 10 points higher as well on that score.

Of course, the 5th set was another matter altogether. But, weirdly, Fed should have LIKED the way the match was going, statistically speaking.

I remember watching Alex Rodriguez hit when he was going for his 500th home run (I think thats' what it was). And he went into an awful slump, not hitting a home run for something like 35 games (I'm probably wrong about the number, but you get the idea).

The combination of Nadal's play/attitude (which Federer finds impenetrable in some way), and the big #14...if those take just a hair off Fed's own attitude and reflexive genius by adding tension...well, those look to me to be what created the 5th set debacle. And then he just fell off the table.

The thing that stood out for me in the match, other than the playing, was how, when Nadal looked discouraged at times, he looked to his box. They appeared to provide him with a kind of collective strength that he needed to persevere. By contrast, in his time of trouble, Fed did not have another resource that he looked to for psychological/emotional/spiritual support. His game has always had another "gear." But Nadal's psyche has another gear...supported by his team. Perhaps Federer could look to emulate that...or is that a cultural difference...the Mediterranean culture's collectivism vs. the more northern, more restrained approach? Fed does seem to have family/group that he is very close to. But he doesn't seem to have another place to reach down into in his soul when crunch-time arrives, the way Nadal does.

All very impressionistic, this last. But, after looking at the stats from the first 4 sets, I don't think that the W or the L here was about their games: Sure Fed had to play a higher-risk game, but he did it well, under immense pressure, for 4 sets. It wasn't 'til his psyche gave out that his game gave way.

Break point conversions do NOT look very good for Federer.
I can bet my house that it was better 2 years ago

[uspta146749877]

northern, more restrained

Watching the OZ final I was pretty pleased w/ Fed's play through 4 sets.

And I think the stats bear me out on this. Here are the stats through those 4 (I added the set-by-set stats at ausopen.org. They were missing break point stats for set #3, but I found those in an article on the web and added them in. It's possible that those are incorrect.)

NADAL FEDERER
1st Serve % 63% 52%
Aces 3 11
Double Faults 4 4
Unforced Errors 39 50
Winning % on 1st Serve 63% 75%
Winning % on 2nd Serve 46% 45%
Winners (Including Service) 45 65
Receiving Points Won 39% 44%
Break Point Conversions 42% 32%
5/12 6/19
Net Approaches 58% 71%
(15/26) . (39/55)

Total Points 146 158

I think these stats are about as positive for Fed as anyone would hope for, except for 1st serve %, where he's normally about 10 points higher or more. But, then again, Nadal is often close to 10 points higher as well on that score.

Of course, the 5th set was another matter altogether. But, weirdly, Fed should have LIKED the way the match was going, statistically speaking.

I remember watching Alex Rodriguez hit when he was going for his 500th home run (I think thats' what it was). And he went into an awful slump, not hitting a home run for something like 35 games (I'm probably wrong about the number, but you get the idea).

The combination of Nadal's play/attitude (which Federer finds impenetrable in some way), and the big #14...if those take just a hair off Fed's own attitude and reflexive genius by adding tension...well, those look to me to be what created the 5th set debacle. And then he just fell off the table.

The thing that stood out for me in the match, other than the playing, was how, when Nadal looked discouraged at times, he looked to his box. They appeared to provide him with a kind of collective strength that he needed to persevere. By contrast, in his time of trouble, Fed did not have another resource that he looked to for psychological/emotional/spiritual support. His game has always had another "gear." But Nadal's psyche has another gear...supported by his team. Perhaps Federer could look to emulate that...or is that a cultural difference...the Mediterranean culture's collectivism vs. the more northern, more restrained approach? Fed does seem to have family/group that he is very close to. But he doesn't seem to have another place to reach down into in his soul when crunch-time arrives, the way Nadal does.

All very impressionistic, this last. But, after looking at the stats from the first 4 sets, I don't think that the W or the L here was about their games: Sure Fed had to play a higher-risk game, but he did it well, under immense pressure, for 4 sets. It wasn't 'til his psyche gave out that his game gave way.

I do NOT mean to be funny but Switzerland till yesterday was NOT
in the Northern part of Europe
The Federer's mother is from South Africa which is a bit away from the North Pole

[airforce1]

Watching the OZ final I was pretty pleased w/ Fed's play through 4 sets.

All very impressionistic, this last. But, after looking at the stats from the first 4 sets, I don't think that the W or the L here was about their games: Sure Fed had to play a higher-risk game, but he did it well, under immense pressure, for 4 sets. It wasn't 'til his psyche gave out that his game gave way.

I agree that the 1st four sets don't look bad for Fed, BUT....

At 5-5 & 5-6 point in the 1st set, Fed looked like here we go again.

In the second set, serving well with the pressure lifted of being near the end of a set, and getting the quick break (if I remember right) he started looking better again.
I've only watched a set and a half so far, but Fed does not look hungry to earn a win.

[oliensis]

Agreed, that Fed looks worst at the most extreme points of pressure. But in this cases, it's not his game (in my view) that's exerting the pressure on him...(by which I mean, it's not the fact that he has to play a higher risk game that's causing him to fold under pressure), it just looks like he becomes sort of un-galvanized about his objective (to galvanized metals have their ions all pointing in the same direction)...so he gets sort of unclear about what he's trying to do, or uncertain about how to do it.

People say that tennis (sports) is 90% mental. But, I think that about 80% of what's mental is footwork and fundamentals...by which I mean that if your footwork and stroke patterns are not flawed, then it's much easier to maintain mental strength under pressure. So, if 80% of the 90% is footwork, then 0.8 * 0.9 = 72% of the game is footwork.

IN this case, though, I don't think that's it. In this case I think it's the 8% that's purely mental (80% - 72% = 8%) that has Federer F****d up.

[bottle]

Four-two in the First

He wins that and takes the match. He wasn't crazy enough.
He really needs to go for things when he's ahead. Because
that's when Nadal is cornered. And when Nadal is cornered,
he gets inspired. So do something DIFFERENT, treating the
being ahead as if one is behind.

[uspta146749877]

Press conference

Please see

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=7656#post7656

[oliensis]

I do NOT mean to be funny but Switzerland till yesterday was NOT
in the Northern part of Europe
The Federer's mother is from South Africa which is a bit away from the North Pole

Basel, Switzerland is quite far north of Majorca. Federer's father is Swiss. If we're contrasting cultures, the Swiss-German language/culture is quite a bit different than the Mediterranean/Island culture in which Nadal grew up. While South Africa is far south, the English/Boer culture from which Federer's mother comes much more resembles a northern European culture than it does either a Mediterranean or southern African culture.

That's why I wrote, "more northern" as a way of describing the culture of Federer's upbringing. I think that's accurate.

_________________

I could have been clearer than when I used the phrase "reflexive genius."
By that I mean that Federer has a kind of natural talent that expresses itself in how he reacts and responds when not thinking. His reflexes have the quality of genius...like when he races for a Roddick overhead and hits a slicing, curving winner while facing away from the net and leaping practically into the stands from 30 feet out of court. Or when he hits a half-volley, flicking backhand crosscourt winner passing shot off his left foot while leaning far to his left in the doubles alley...and then does it again....and then does it again...