A Return to The Big Conversation
The big though one-sided conversation here has always been about how a rotorded server (i.e., most servers in the world) can nevertheless learn how to produce effective kick spin.
Hope and I have a few printer/scanner issues right now, so I can’t easily reproduce the cover of TENNIS MADE EASY by Lloyd Budge, and I couldn’t find it in the following collage although it’s surely one of the most interesting tennis book covers of all time.
Lloyd Budge’s kick serve, not pictured, has looked like “junior” kick to some, but was senior enough to get him and his partner to the final of the U.S. Open, Forest Hills, where they lost to his kid brother and Don Mako in four sets. Remember too that Lloyd Budge at that time was quite old for a tennis player.
That book cover for those who can find it may give some clues: Face open to sky and parallel with court, both arms bent and upraised (AT CONTACT!), big front foot flat, rear foot up on toes, no leaving the earth whatsoever, a toss so far back that it can only be imagined by the eyes.
Brenda Schultz McCarthy, one of the best women servers of all time, advocates front leg pressure for a first serve and double-leg pressure for a second serve, so I think I’ll use rear leg pressure for a second serve. Among other reasons, my front leg hurts. The rear leg can carry the front leg along with it up to a flat-footed finish while maintaining upward body tilt longer than usual.
Further ideas conjured by the Lloyd Budge “kick” image viewed by me for the 500th time were so bizarre that I abandoned my usual routine of writing first and trying the stroke later. Since I didn’t want to embarrass myself, I stealthily drove down to the court next to the great lake. (All the Great Lakes are connected so there really is just one.)
First, I would toss from a bent rather than a straight arm. I would keep my right arm similarly bent. I would use standard down and up structure but miniaturized and started from high over the head. (And I would adapt this address later to my other serves if the experiment said, “Go ahead!”)
With both arms continuously bent, the hands would come down much less than usual. I’d keep the hand movements pretty much high. With both arms bent and in front of me, I could be more aware of how the distance between the two elbows changes to produce a sling-shot. To prepare myself, I could do figure 8 exercises with bent left arm kept up in the air at all times.
Hitting arm could go down behind back and compress as usual but re-extend only to pre-established length.
I would bounce balls over the net to begin, resolved forever to kick ball between points to opponent this way.
As you would expect with all these ridiculous ideas there was an unexpected result.
Worked quite well although the serves weren’t big. If height of bounce is the sole objective, these serves win over any of my others.
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A New Year's Serve
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Scapular Retraction on Both Sides, Scapular Adduction on One Side Only
An idea can be short but not contained.
I'll try it on serve.
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Originally posted by bottle View Post
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Re Developmental Post # 1141
It might be shrewder for some players on a forehand to keep the left arm bent at all times in keeping with the trend in all these recent posts toward wiser use of muscles in back and chest. And straightness of arm per se may not contribute to this wisdom since stability of the left elbow is what one really wants. Even in serving there are a few examples in tennis history of great athletes keeping a bent left arm upraised, e.g., Lloyd Budge producing awesome kick on the cover of his old book TENNIS MADE EASY.
In a current Bollettieri Academy service video, the speaker's voice advocates that one keep one's straight arm upraised for a few extra microseconds by turning it and hooking the hand on a high imaginary fence. But I hate all authority today, especially Porcine Paper Publishing Very Ltd., and I don't want to turn my arm just because some idiot says so. If the court dries out, I'll instead try in sequence 1) toss 2) continued stretching of extended left arm 3) bending of left arm 4) lowering of left arm.Last edited by bottle; 05-16-2012, 07:33 AM.
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Serve and Forehand: Two Different Kinds of Sling-Shot
The first is a WHAMO consisting of a "Y" and elastic connecting the two upper prongs. The second, in my secular view, is the type used by David to slay Goliath.
Supposedly, David whirled a rock round and around and then released it on the desired tangent.
To serve, one keeps a stiff left arm upraised from which one has wound the racket back in a circle, using scapular retraction in both shoulders.
To hit a forehand, one can, with rhythmic motion, post the opposite arm in an advantageous place and similarly use muscles across the front of the chest to abruptly change direction of the hitting hand from forward to sideward as previously discussed.
This plan, in a straight arm forehand started from high ice cream cone position (for discussion of this see previous posts) makes me want, naturally, to keep slight bend in left arm as straight right arm separates to form hold position (a running hold in most cases).
Left arm then, as it smooths the waters, also becomes straight like left arm in a serve and helps arch the back again through scapular retraction in both shoulders.
"Stretch-shorten cycle" as useful tennis buzzword practically dictates this.
If, like me, you seek the most powerful way to suddenly make hitting hand veer left, this is the way, the sling-shot way, to do it.Last edited by bottle; 05-15-2012, 09:22 AM.
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Should I further examine the rear1 500 fps clip as a laundry list of items? I will whether I should or not. But I always remember an article by Pam Shriver in which she described a friend of hers who left the tour because of injury, then returned sometime later but without her trademark huge topspin. Pam didn’t feel the loss of the topspin was due to the injury or anything physical but was a simple mystery. Of course Pam herself never hit that much topspin, so maybe she wasn’t the best available expert on this specific subject.
Are there identifiable causes, other than brute strength, why some person can or can’t hit high quality topspin that pins the opponent on the baseline and bounces over his head? The prevailing non-wisdom is that senior players ought to hit more slice and flat, abandoning forever their dream of heavy, kicking topspin. Why am I so sure of myself here? Because I’ve played with and have observed a few old guys who could do it, none of whom appeared particularly strong or well muscled. Could brain power matter more in this case than some jocks think?
I had a friend, a former tour player who used a Prince Magnesium mid-size and hit deep, light high-bouncing spin with a flick of the wrist—more precisely with radial bone directed wrist action, exquisitely timed. He was just over 400th in the world but was still good enough to have twice won the USPTA doubles championship partnered with the Williams head coach, and to have been captain of his own college team, and to have won matches in Maine and Virginia partnered with McEnroe and Navratilova.
He used to teach a Zen-like lift described best by the word BAM! and which seemed to involve every joint in the arm. It’s a damned mystery, for me, is what I’m trying to say while knowing at the same time that there are other ways to do it than his (Jim Kacian’s).
Here’s the video again.
On elbow lift, no, there isn’t any compared to someone like Victoria Azarenka, who not only takes her bent arm up but then circles it back around her body. Or Ivan Lendl, who drew his needling elbow way up, way back. But Roger does start drawing his elbow toward rear fence and away from his body at the beginning of straightening his arm. He does this just a little, but I see it, I know it happens! And if elbow moves away from body it must rise, too. It doesn’t know how to do anything else unless it started from above the shoulder. It’s just something I want to try next time I have a few free minutes on a tennis court. Maybe it won’t make any significant difference to my game. It will certainly increase the radius of the shot by a couple inches.
Now I’m looking at # 1138, two before this post. You don’t see, Stotty, in the same video, the strings come from the inside of a large arc which will put them at a perpendicular to the target at the hit? You don’t see the rotation of the shoulders slowing in the middle of the shot and then resuming speed comparable to the beginning? You don’t see the hitting hand making an abrupt left turn to get out of the way and using muscles across the front of the chest to sling the racket straight ahead like the stone on the end of a string, for full extension, very fast?
I’m looking around for anything else that might irritate. An ice cream cone only in a mental video-- who other than I could see that! Reminds me of the hot dogs in Hungary. The vendors don’t slice the rolls but use a metal prong to make a lengthwise hole. You have to keep this hot dog upright or mustard, relish and other condiments spill on your shirt.
With tennis being so much about balance, it occurred to me that an upright racket on edge during running “hold” might not be such a bad idea. I think of Chris Evert, Jimmy Connors and Tracycakes. But they hit flat. Here's where Chris Lewit and The Spanish Forehand come in.Last edited by bottle; 05-15-2012, 07:16 AM.
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Are you talking about the rear1 500fps clip?
You've lost me on this one...not seeing elbow lift...or other things you refer to. Am I looking at the correct clip?
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Inside Out
In either tennis or golf, the ones who understand "inside out" can use it, but the others frequently suffer from the mistaken notion that the racket head/club head proceeds to outside of ball once ball is hit.
In fact, in a good inside out swing, the strings come from the inside of a large arc which will put them at a perpendicular to the target at the hit.
Two different arcs coincide briefly at contact in other words. If you hit from the outside you cross the ball and don't catch all of it. If you hit from the inside and then keep going to the outside you don't catch all of it either.
The following sequence illustrates this.
There's a lot of information to notice in the video-- probably too much-- but I also want to point to the mid-swing slight slowing of the shoulders (before they continue to completion) since that's one of the many creators of racket head speed. Another is hand suddenly changing direction to the left.
If one clicks repeatedly at mondo, i.e., precisely at point where the racket tip folds back, one sees hitting hand, right after that, take an abrupt left turn in front of body just before contact. (Throw your heart into this!)
The way that Roger creates the mondo through extension backwards from a beginning bent arm position is different from the straight arm "drop" method I've just bought into and advocated in these posts.
Also, there is a small amount of elbow lift starting before Roger's arm straightens. I've always thought the elbow was still just then, and have said so, and want to correct myself at least for this one video. The elbow goes back. That's what takes it up a bit.
No matter what precedes the mondo, this is a great model for topspin shots, for the actual hit.Last edited by bottle; 05-14-2012, 11:02 AM.
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Hate
I hate the added rise of the arm after I've done some running so I'm going to just think fall from well-chosen initial height.
Racket on edge and pointed at right rear fence post appeals right now.
Concealment won't occur in the high position but will occur after drop since racket head will have slanted behind me as a function of fall.
For flat shot I want racket giving away at the wrist very late, even during contact. That certainly will "keep flashlight going toward the opponent for as long as possible."
For topspin, the plan of the minute is to employ mondo a bit earlier, creating a real lag in closing strings (they're not swinging around yet but they are beveling) in transition from waterfall to forward and up. I start spearing from bottom of the waterfall. I spear or flashlight right up to the ball.
Then, contrary to popular expectation, I don't twist my arm like the nub of a windshield wiper but-- sharply!-- deflect the hand to left to sling the strings on their already established low to high and inside-out path.
Windshield wiper or return of racket to left shoulder, left upper arm or left hip occurs only after that, i.e., after full extension of strings which again was on the inside-out path.
I can't be sure yet, but running around the living room with both arms extended is leading toward another possibly terminal conclusion.
For the deeper starting position described here, with arms pointing roughly at rear right fence post rather than remaining parallel to the net, one achieves comfort by allowing hands to separate a small bit.
Will it work to run a long way like this? Yes, possibly, since hand is under the racket with both impersonating the stability of an ice cream cone.Last edited by bottle; 05-14-2012, 12:59 PM.
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Default Deception
Am I about to pendulate here on one point? Probably, you (esteemed reader) could indicate, while adding that there's no such word in Webster's Collegiate. Well, you can find "pendulate" elsewhere. And there should be such a word in our existence since it happens all the time, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. To pendulate is better than to waver.
I said, "Turn down palm as part of first lift." Default shot: Topspin. For flatter drive variation add a little sidearm opening action to wrist and forearm before contact.
Or, set up at end of parallelism-in-straight-arm unit turn with racket on edge, instead, and close it on the way toward the ball for the topspin variation-- I wouldn't care.
One or the other setup may work better for some individual.Last edited by bottle; 05-14-2012, 12:55 PM.
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Palm Down, Smaller Loop, Flashlight for as Long as Possible
I've proved to myself that people can write about tennis in new ways and maybe even get read.
My method is to project something new I want to try but haven't tried yet. That way I don't do public relations for myself, and yes that is a criticism of most tennis writing.
If you're genuine in your wish for discovery-- for any kind of discovery-- you won't self-promote, simple as that.
So, following the context of recent posts, I can report on a hitting experience I had so long as it isn't the main topic.
At the tennis socials I attend, I can show up half an hour early and find people with which to hit, even 23-year-olds of Asian background who know how to generate huge topspin.
My waterfall version of Spanish forehand, never tried on another human being, sort of sputtered at first, then worked very well for about 10 minutes, then probably faded from excellence in the last five minutes.
What exactly produced these changes I don't know, but today I want to try something a bit different, to turn down palm as part of first lift, to keep a perpendicular from palm pointed down as racket then rises above shoulder, to press palm down as racket tip comes in slightly closer to the body to form a more modest loop.
In addition, the butt of racket per recent spot on Tennis Channel will spear toward net for a long time, or, as Nick Bollettieri preaches in the spot, "Keep the flashlight going toward the opponent for as long as possible."
Isn't this advice similar to maintaining racket frame cleave right up to the ball on any serve? Flashlight, saber's edge-- I sometimes think that idea/images of delay like these are more important than all the other stuff we think about.Last edited by bottle; 05-13-2012, 06:23 AM.
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Spanish Forehand: A Gravity Drop Version
A person creating a tall waterfall should not care how the water gets to the lip. The water can perhaps come from the side before it goes over.
So, in the present forehand under construction, one starts with the two arms straight and roughly parallel to each other and the court-- way out to the side in other words and with the left shoulder tucked all the way under the chin. An extremely quick and unified movement got me there.
I run in this contorted hold position with hips partially turned so that I look like a big crab. I could run like that all day. Which might be a good idea just to get used to the novelty of the thing.
One might think of Andre Agassi. He ran like this. Of course what he did next (fold his racket and arm down and in toward himself) was different from my proposal but so what? Andre is the precedent for relaxation with arms way out.
Since backward body rotation is accomplished, all one really has to deal with are the arms and legs, the right arm in particular. That will be the waterfall, not as absolutely tall as possible but tall nevertheless.
Could the lip of the waterfall be the first established hand position? Probably. But we want more fall combined with straightness in the waterfall of this most special of special shots. And we want subsequent inside out travel of the racket head up to the ball. The choice is outside in or inside out or straight behind, same as in golf.
So, we're now ready to start a purposefully delayed loop. Which we can, if we want to, do with no forward body rotation at all at first.
To construct inside-out pattern however we need to bring racket behind us (good also for concealment of purpose). Chris Lewit, the explainer, writes that the racket will morph to five or six o'clock.
Desired pattern can surely be achieved in a number of ways (see the old golf book CURE YOUR SLICE FOREVER by John Huggan). If however like me you want maximum gravity assist, you may choose to bring the straight arm up some more as you bring it sideways to six o'clock, i.e., perpendicular to the rear fence.Last edited by bottle; 05-12-2012, 01:48 PM.
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Forearm Hinge
The straight arm hinges first before the elbow rises. The two actions are not simultaneous. A little elbow rise does occur early but to minimal degree. The statement of sequence therefore is essentially true. Lia Kiam is also shown, in some of these videos, hitting extreme topspin shots straight arm WITHOUT this forearm hinge.
An adventurous person also might try lifting in every possible way without concern for sequence of any kind, which then might or might not occur in a purely natural way. All this experimentation might lead to intelligible conclusion. That's possible!
Note how far forward actual low point is in the arm-stays-straight variation. That means, from straight arm preparation, that the racket head lifts a little and starts falling down behind the player and then keeps on falling down to her right-- a very long tumble, no?Last edited by bottle; 05-14-2012, 12:50 PM.
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