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A New Year's Serve

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  • Hook Shot Toss: What's the Fun of Trying Something Crazy if it's not REALLY CRAZY?

    Reader, you have to think my experience may be useful to you. Otherwise you should not read this.

    Hips turn back. I keep feet flat, so as better to stretch the rubber bands of the gut.

    As hips turn back the hitting arm straightens toward the rear fence. And the tossing arm straightens toward the sky, but in a stretch, not in a toss. There is no toss yet.

    Now the shoulders wind back in two different ways, roundabout and linear. The combination raises the tossing shoulder as in a hook shot in basketball. At the same time the tossing arm scissors to project the ball over your head.

    At the same time the hitting arm bends a little with palm of hand faced down.

    Previously, we experimented with toss both as early and as late as possible. Now we put the toss in the precise middle of these two possibilities.

    Linear movement of the shoulders toward rear fence balances linear movement of front hip toward the net. If good tosses only occur during forward travel the bottom half of the body can go forward more than the top half goes back.

    In the late legs serve I have chosen, I need some special device to speed up the racket, and that would be an immediate or sudden reversal of shoulders.

    The mantra from there of "speed, push and crow" (scarecrow) still holds.

    Go now to court.

    Report: Can't say "promising" yet but probably will soon. A bit of circular arm action from rear fence toward net helped the toss.
    Last edited by bottle; 02-04-2017, 01:56 PM.

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    • Pancho Gonzalez

      The arm travels a lot faster and farther than the body turn.

      The body turn is smooth, slow and powerful support.

      https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...erveFront1.mov

      https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...erveFront2.mov

      Last edited by bottle; 02-05-2017, 08:58 AM.

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      • The Future of Big Roundabout Serves

        The future, you will find, reader, is the same as the past.

        One thing to note (and this is much in the context of all my recent service experiments recorded here) is that if you extend both arms from all available joints they can rise from waist to shoulders.

        For those who are interested I now advise a re-read of the service chapter in TENNIS FOR THE FUTURE by Vic Braden and Bill Bruns. It is a remarkable document perhaps exceeding in worth all the subsequent videos, books, articles, letters and even oral instruction that Vic Braden put out even though a lot of this material is unique, hilarious and wonderful.

        Granted, this serve is different from that embodied by McEnroe, Sampras and Federer.

        But is it close to that of Pancho Gonzalez?

        In any case, I am no longer, with an artificial front knee joint, going to leap into the air for a "hoppity hop landing" to use Jeff Greenwald's phrase.

        One of my bigger wins of a late-starting club career which snobs are apt to label mediocre was against a psychologist who had one of these horizontal type serves with hitting arm getting way way back and around-- as far back and straight as Herbert of France.

        His first serve was exceptional. His second serve was non-existent, i.e., pitty-pat.

        Here, to my mind, is where the Tennisone Lesson Library serve videos of Doug King can fit in nicely.

        Also, if one goes this route (not traditional down and up form despite that wonderful use of gravity), one can learn-- for getting to the net-- a specific formula more helpful than what current tennis instruction ever offers.

        First step: The natural service motion brings back foot forward to catch one's weight.

        Second and Third Steps: Run.

        Fourth Step: Split-stop.
        Last edited by bottle; 02-06-2017, 09:24 AM.

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        • A Rush of Enthusiasm Followed by a Rash of Criticism

          Serving way out in front of the head can never work for a rotorded server what with his lousy skittle strings or shoulder adhesions or some other damned thing keeping him from being double-jointed in his shoulder cave.

          He will push the ball, not hit or scrape it. This is life.

          So he needs to bring the toss way back. Still, he can learn from the service chapter of TENNIS FOR THE FUTURE. He can learn a lot but needs to be selective.

          Wanted: A speed throw that brings the hand up from straight behind the shoulder. A last instant turn out from the forearm to put strings on the OUTSIDE of the ball before the combined push of bod and ISR that brushes up inside of the ball.

          That at least is what I will try today. I realize now that in actual play I never even tried the early vertical arm pre-toss stretch that I used in practice.

          "The shot you practiced is the one you play with."-- Stan Smith

          And back to Katie Kata. There are a million katas one can use in tennis or life-- little pieces of desired motion (or of desired phrase if one is learning some language which one usually is). One can put the pieces of motion or larger phrase together later.

          Only one kata is so important to me right now that I give her a name.

          Katie Kata consists of speed, push and crow (scarecrow finish to the serve).

          Line of speed throw: Hand to shoulder to ball.

          Comment


          • Hook Shot Toss Appears to Work Beautifully with this Serve

            And I think I'm beginning to understand the advantage of open-faced address. Funny how no one ever wants to discuss this question. They like dumb subjects better.

            Starting with strings a bit open helps one get economically to outside of ball using a Pancho Gonzalez type level backswing way around-- before the push and crow.

            But I'm now ready to redefine the "push" a bit.

            I thought this late push was a combination of ISR and body heft.

            Partially true. But at my age (77) or perhaps at any age, one should at least consider a rolling body action that never stops just changes direction.

            This creates a situation where forward body rotation, subordinated to arm action, starts before contact, happens at contact, and continues a bit after contact.

            Note: If using this genre of serve, one cannot practice getting to the net enough. The rhythm is serve, two, three, split with no stagger or hesitation. The wonder of it is that the annoying hoppety-hop of modern serves is gone.
            Last edited by bottle; 02-08-2017, 01:41 PM.

            Comment


            • Trip to Net off Serve with Knee Replacement

              1) Reject hoppity hop serves.

              2) Revert to Pancho Gonzalez genre of serve in which you stay grounded throughout.

              3) Use platform stance (if you like) and drive up some but reduce harshness of landing.

              4) Don't hop into 4th step even though this may get you a foot closer to net.

              5) Serve (catch step), two, three, split. The fourth step (the split) can be made gentler by simply sliding other foot up next to the one that just landed as step three. But this will create a different dynamic than travel maybe after a second bounce in which you turn in determined direction while airborne. From other strokes, from skiing too, perhaps, you may be aware of alternate dynamics. I think you want to crouch down on knees a bit on fourth step or "slide."

              Comment


              • Smoothing out the New Bod Subordinate Serve

                "Subordinate" is the key word. Use bod sequence only on the backswing-- hips first then shoulders to take racket down on opposite side of the bod.

                The subordination of the bod is a calming down of the bod. To do this let the two halves of the bod, upper and lower, rotate forward together, i.e., with no sequence, also slow down the whole long turn.

                The predominant action in this serve comes from the arm.

                Bod supports the arm by always trying to catch up with it but never passing it.
                Last edited by bottle; 02-09-2017, 10:08 AM.

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                • Toss

                  In any serve, there is overly much to discuss. Toss in this one may be the biggest difference. Using ice cream cone toss combined with elbow bending and shoulder rising could-- conceivably-- eliminate all errant tosses. One stretches and straightens arm upward on a 45-degree angle before one hook-shots with it.

                  A second huge, provocative and very sensible characteristic is that the serve is INTEGRATED. There is no separation between toss and winding under the ball. This all happens at once.

                  One can think that Andy Roddick, the teen-aged inventor, moved service action toward integration but did not completely arrive there.

                  I am not making any claim for comparison to or improvement upon the Roddick serve (the most amazing tennis stroke that I have ever witnessed in person).

                  That serve does however contain the idea of integration in it.

                  And this serve, the idea of which comes to me through the readily available videos of Doug King, will get better and better the longer one intensely sticks with it, according to King, and I believe him.
                  Last edited by bottle; 02-09-2017, 10:30 AM.

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                  • "Worst Cooks in America" might apply to me (or you) in tennis.

                    In a recent episode of this television show, the instructors took away the notebooks of their culinary students.

                    Listen, nobody can take a notebook out on the court when they play.

                    Even looking at the notebook the night before a match might be too much.

                    None of these truths however mean that the notes weren't worthwhile.

                    Comment


                    • New Rolling P. Gonzalez Genre Serve: Both Arms Bend Together

                      And an identical amount.

                      Comment


                      • The Future with this Serve

                        Fiddle with amount of openness of strings at address. These minor adjustments will dramatically affect precisely to where on outside of ball the "speed" phase brings one's strings. In mantra "speed push crow."

                        Also, this serve renews the possibility of right-hander carving soft slice very short to outside line of opponent's service box.

                        "Carving" for many instructors is a dirty word since this is not the best way to serve and they are absolutely right about that.

                        Roger Federer, e.g., never does it but Patrick Rafter sometime did.

                        No matter what anybody says, carving does exist in the tennis universe, and tennis writer John M. Barnaby explains it perfectly in RACQUET WORK: THE KEY TO TENNIS.

                        To learn it, one starts backward from paveloader finish. Then one swishes the racket up and down the service tract a short amount. One does this to develop the feel without which this idea means nothing. Gradually, one extends the amount of racket rise but always swishes back to paveloader finish. SWISH SWISH SWISH SWISH SWISH SWISH SWISH SWISH, etc. Finally one is swishing back and forth all the way to and from contact position. Also, Barnaby says something about making firm contact with ball before pushing around and down with lower edge.

                        There is no ISR (internal shoulder rotation) or pronation, not either, in this serve. That means you don't swing hard. If you swing hard your body is going to turn the racket out some to protect itself.

                        The expression often used to describe these trick serves is "peeling an apple, onion or pear." Which suggests too sharp a turn.

                        Also, the enemies of carved serves use this expression to dismiss them, arguing that physically speaking, such a carve can not possibly happen.

                        That is true. The language of carved serves is for cue purpose only.

                        This shot should be considered addition to one's ISR serves including a much more powerful slice that lands deeper toward one's opponent. As I already suggested, the carve should be viewed as a trick shot. I once saw Vic Braden, who loved trick shots, scrape the ball through the air at 1 mile per hour and hit the short target on his first try.
                        Last edited by bottle; 02-11-2017, 06:06 AM.

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                        • Making New Serve Along with Other Strokes More Dramatic

                          The arms bend together, I have posited, so how can one involve the heavens in this simple gesture? Easy. Scrape the sky while supplicating with both hands.

                          This image might work better for a tosser who keeps palm up (but I'll keep my ice cream cone toss from up high, thanks). The fingers of both hands could scrape the heavens.

                          The same idea of more juice certainly applies to the dropshot. You give every indication of killing the ball and then ZING.

                          A recent article here on overhead (smash) suggested that all of these shots be hit at less than full speed and in differing amount according to circumstance.

                          But an early book by Rod Laver advocated just the opposite.

                          Don't just smash, he argued, smash to the full.

                          I can see this. I once hit somebody on the right cheek and don't want ever to do that again. Nor do I want to hit anybody between the eyes, which unconsciously I was probably trying to do. The guy, who was a real athlete and slightly ducked, recently died. He reacted well to my concern and we became great friends for the last couple of years.

                          So there is a time and place for a full smash, but again, it gets the juices flowing and focuses one in some ancient, atavistic way.

                          One becomes a caveman. And finds oneself easily using short smashes to bounce the ball high over the opponents' heads.

                          This like much ultimately is a matter of temperament. Personally, I hit all my smashes a bit better when I go full out.
                          Last edited by bottle; 02-11-2017, 07:43 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Tip for Increased Power and More Collected Recovery from "Stay Grounded" Forehands

                            You use forward hips rotation, right? So while doing this keep back foot flat before you let its heel rise up.

                            Comment


                            • Speed and Carve to Paveload

                              Want to try this in the trick shot described in # 3476 . I'm thinking of more fingers loosening than on a normal serve, with fingers clenching next blending with cross-bone wrist action to take strings to outside of ball. In addition, turning strings out more at address (for who ever notices anything?) points elbow out so that right-hander's push/carve comes more from the right fence.

                              If serving to a smarty however one could for concealment simply turn racket out extra amount during the initial move (count one) which consists of first the hips turn and then the shoulders turn which supplies half the energy for the bending arm toss. The arm bends (which goes against everything we ever learned) as it is impelled upward by the rising shoulder.

                              Count 2 normally is the push and count 3 the scarecrow finish in these serves.

                              For this serve however one speeds strings to ball with hand and fingers then carves to the paveloader finish and is well advised to slow the overall pattern way way down...
                              Last edited by bottle; 02-12-2017, 02:55 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Palm Down or Palm Up during Initiation of Every Serve?

                                This to me is the big question that nobody ever wants to discuss enough. Vic Braden was the firmest of all advocates for palm down.

                                But as his implicit debate opponent who never became famous-- John M. Barnaby-- wrote, these palm down serves lead to an unnecessarily complicated in and out motion. Barnaby thought one should, in a conventional down and up serve turn one's racket out as it passes right shin.

                                Me, I'll try palm down once in a while since this is the way I've served for most of my life.

                                But open faced address leads to the classic image of racket tip dipping into a bucket of paint and coming right out.

                                The paint bucket approach takes less time, it seems to me, is simple and lends itself to a compact, integrated serve in which toss and winding back/down of hitting shoulder can be one and the same thing.
                                Last edited by bottle; 02-12-2017, 02:56 AM.

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