A New Year's Serve

[10splayer]

But WILL he " figure it out?"

Why? Does he think that figuring out is worthwhile? Where could he get that idea?

Only from an extraordinary teacher/mentor/parent/peer/somebody.

Has Ryan Harrison or Boris Karloff ("I shot up the rankings really fast") ever come up with anything original, or am I being unfair?

Maybe they did but I just don't know about it?

I guess I have made severe value judgment from what these and so many other tour players have revealed of themselves in public.

But will he "figure it out"? Yes, in most cases I think "they" do. If there is some degree of talent and athleticism. At least, in the context of what works best for them, AND provided they have a sound fundamental background. (which i believe is the principle job of an instructor)

I believe there are core commonalities amongst all good players. It's subtle, but there. Proper grips, basic swing shapes, sound biomechanics, etc. all are present in great players, even though they may look different on the surface. We all have a personalized style.

As I mentioned before, the real key, in terms of coaching, is determining personal style from flaw. (that will inhibit progress) And it can be a tricky proposition. Sometimes, it's difficult to "lay off" a stroke that is not perfectly pleasing to the eye. However, if it falls within a range of acceptability, and works for that person, it is generally "right" for them. At least, that's my approach.

And for the record, I agree with Billie Jean. Most of those tour players, really have no idea what they're doing, in a teaching sense.

[bottle]

If I bend my knees more, I'm there, into the past.

[don_budge]

Tramline?

What is a tramline?

[bottle]

Thanks. And I won't club it.

[stotty]

Cut the ball off out in front...

I've only seen 4) once or twice and was very impressed. Any tip on how to hit this shot since your weight would seem to be going away from the target?

The contact must be well in front of the body to enable the ball to be cut back into the tramline. Few club player do this shot...it doesn't enter the head easily. It's only really seen in good standard doubles.

[bottle]

I've only seen 4) once or twice and was very impressed. Any tip on how to hit this shot since your weight would seem to be going away from the target?

[stotty]

Where to place the poached volley...

Plan. Unveil new deal when am seventy-five. Acquire in the meantime all available knowledge on the subject which so far is sparse and not detailed enough. Eschew knee replacement. Can a player even poach after a knee replacement? Not with the kind of full poach I have in mind. Indisputable premise: Most doubles is sedentary, static and risk-free, ergo bores. Working quote from beginning of fifth chapter of Pat Blaskower's THE ART OF DOUBLES cannot be repeated enough:

"It is only by risking our persons from one hour to another that we live at all. And often enough our faith beforehand in an uncertified result is the only thing that makes the result come true." -- William James

Introduction: Body-Protected Backhand Volley Full Poach By Right-Handed Player from Deuce Court As Partner Serves.

1) Learn these terms: "half-poach" and "full-poach." The half-poach hits the ball from center of court to center of court to split the opponents

The full-poach, with different preparation, gets all the way to opponent's cross-court service return, which is apt to be wider than usual because of your half-poach intimidation

Most of the time u am i poacher will dance back to cover own court and alley. The good intimidation however will not occur and the ploy will weaken unless reinforced by full-poaches.

Greatest vulnerabilities of the full-poach. 1) Partner doesn't cover. 2) You go too soon. 3) You didn't go too soon sometimes. 4) Your partner is ill-humored. 5) Opponent drills you while your racket is pointed at rear fence. At least you can duck and block the ball with your shoulder. Your main defense however is good offense, viz., the good half-poaches you've already threatened or hit with your standard volley preparation.

What could the different mechanics be for the full-poach which move has become so important? There is no one answer. But we can work backward from the known target, which is a point in the alley between the net and service line. This aim point is far superior to trying to put the ball on the opposing netman's shoe tops, which probably, as Blaskower suggests, will put the ball instead on her/his sweet spot.

Working backward from the alley target, I will use, for now, the martial arts preparation of the great tennis teaching pro Shea Brown.

This involves facing my right palm toward my left ear.

From there I shall endeavor to roll the racket open while extending the arm.

Will arm be bent or straight at contact? Both. Depending on where ball is and where I am.

Where to hit your poach?

1) at the opposing net player's body; a favourite amongst less sophisticated poachers.

2) down the middle, between the two opposing players - a good, solid plan.

3) to the opposing net player's tramline; tricky, volley has to be faded, often requires intricacy and good hands

4) back into the returner's tramline

Number 4 is the best way to poach if your partner can deliver the right type of serve; a serve that pulls the returner away from the tramline and to towards the middle of the court. It's the least used "poaching spot" to place the ball and an certain killer if done well.

[bottle]

Poached Egg: Two Year Quest Starting Today

Plan. Unveil new deal when am seventy-five. Acquire in the meantime all available knowledge on the subject which so far is sparse and not detailed enough. Eschew knee replacement. Can a player even poach after a knee replacement? Not with the kind of full poach I have in mind. Indisputable premise: Most doubles is sedentary, static and risk-free, ergo bores. Working quote from beginning of fifth chapter of Pat Blaskower's THE ART OF DOUBLES cannot be repeated enough:

"It is only by risking our persons from one hour to another that we live at all. And often enough our faith beforehand in an uncertified result is the only thing that makes the result come true." -- William James

Introduction: Body-Protected Backhand Volley Full Poach By Right-Handed Player from Deuce Court As Partner Serves.

1) Learn these terms: "half-poach" and "full-poach." The half-poach hits the ball from center of court to center of court to split the opponents.

The full-poach, with different preparation, gets all the way to opponent's cross-court service return, which is apt to be wider than usual because of your half-poach intimidation.

Most of the time u am i poacher will dance back to cover own court and alley. The good intimidation however will not occur and the ploy will weaken unless reinforced by full-poaches.

Greatest vulnerabilities of the full-poach. 1) Partner doesn't cover. 2) You go too soon. 3) You didn't go too soon sometimes. 4) Your partner is ill-humored. 5) Opponent drills you while your racket is pointed at rear fence. At least you can duck and block the ball with your shoulder. Your main defense however is good offense, viz., the good half-poaches you've already threatened or hit with your standard volley preparation.

What could the different mechanics be for the full-poach which move has become so important? There is no one answer. But we can work backward from the known target, which is a point in the alley between the net and service line. This aim point is higher percentage than trying to put the ball on the opposing netman's shoe tops, which may, as Blaskower suggests, put the ball instead on her/his sweet spot.

Working backward from the alley target, I will use, for now, the martial arts preparation of the great tennis teaching pro Shea Brown.

This involves facing my right palm toward my left ear.

From there I shall endeavor to roll the racket open while extending the arm.

Will arm be bent or straight at contact? Both. Depending on where ball is and where I am.

[bottle]

Re Stotty-10splayer Conversation About Student Figuring Stuff Out

But WILL he " figure it out?"

Why? Does he think that figuring out is worthwhile? Where could he get that idea?

Only from an extraordinary teacher/mentor/parent/peer/somebody.

Has Ryan Harrison or Boris Karloff ("I shot up the rankings really fast") ever come up with anything original, or am I being unfair?

Maybe they did but I just don't know about it?

I guess I have made severe value judgment from what these and so many other tour players have revealed of themselves in public.

[bottle]

Variety in Backhand Volleys

"If" is such a good word for starting a discussion in tennis.

It excuses one from speaking from the cathedral, if you know what I mean.

If more variety ought to exist at net than anywhere else in tennis, then we should allot more study there, too.

Or do study and animal volleys exclude one another?

Billie Jean: The greater the player the less he or she knows what she's doing.

So, if you don't know what you're doing, are you great?

Better to declare one's mediocrity in order to open oneself up to new knowledge and to do this throughout one's entire tennis career, I would argue.

The only real drawback is that your enemies will believe you when you say you're mediocre. Answer: Smoke em on the court.

On pages 72-3 of TENNIS BY PANCHO GONZALEZ, Pancho starts two volleys quite hunched over with racket tip quite vertical almost like the beginning of Ken Rosewall's full slice.

Pancho, much more the teacher/aesthete than most great players, must have emphasized this high racket tip for a reason.

But in the following clips it's not always so apparent:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/panchogonzales/panchogonzales.html?PGBHVFront.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/panchogonzales/panchogonzales.html?PGBHVOpenStanceFront.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/panchogonzales/panchogonzales.html?PGFHApproachBHVFront.mov

Apparent as part of the double roll in first sequence perhaps.

In the second sequence there's no need for rolls of any kind. Racket trajectory is slightly down and then up.

In the third sequence, a high volley, there's single roll, I would say (but perhaps that's just me). Initial preparation gets racket still and ready to go. Roll then is over the top to the ball. Racket stays high in the follow-through.

[bottle]

JMFH (John McEnroe Departed Forehand)

What's wrong with shooting straight arm hard down at court while cranking hips, then cranking the shoulders while rolling racket head 50-50 up and through the ball?

"Shooting arm hard down at court" will bring it in-- right-- by x amount? Same amount of arm positioning then to outside, x, can be accomplished through vector of arm lift (optionally with firm connection from racket tip to shoulders core).

"Cranking the shoulders" is a crude order direct from brain to stomach, no?

Hitting the ball with transverse gut muscles and arm roll applied in simultaneity should keep one out of trouble with this shot.

"Trouble" occurs when the arm roll is unalloyed by anything else.

The inside out nature of this shot is defined by arm trajectory-- a small bit to inside followed by a small bit to outside.

The ATP Forehand, by contrast, puts hand behind the ball early. Inside out pattern is determined by arm roll in that one.

[stotty]

The best shots are natural

Yes, we are all guilty of that. Perhaps the biggest dilemma in development, is knowing when to intercede and when to just stay out of the way. We all have egos, and think we know best.

The greatest coaches I've come in contact with, though, know how to find a balance between personal exploration and rigid intervention. One can see there subtle influence on players, without a "cloning" effect.

And yes, many, many coaches overate there influence.especially those who "take over" high caliber players. Too me, the "real" coaches are the early intervention ones, who, initially, develop fundamentally sound games, which, allows players to grow and an opportunity for future options. That's where the rubber meets the road.

Some really astute points here. And certainly the best coaching I have ever done is when I have left well alone. The best shots in my experience are the natural ones that need very little coaching intervention. The problem with being a coach is you always feel like you should be tweaking something.

Assessing shots for their future potential is a tough one. I've made mistakes in this area of coaching.

[10splayer]

I'll take your word for it, however, I've heard the same song and dance over the years. I'll remain skeptical. Looked over a few paragraphs of the Waltke article, and would probably disagree with some of it.

[bottle]

To be safe, I'd say, give anyone who works hard the benefit of one's doubt. One thing I can promise you: My attempt to incorporate Rosewallian slice (once again) has not subtracted anything from my game. But Rosewallian backhand volley might be too big of a late life order. The jury is still out. But I get a big kick from suddenly winning three Fridays in a row and carrying various doubles partners in the process. Rosewallian slice did it. That was the variable. The same opponents were giving me trouble before. A person like you should take note! And study Trey Waltke's article in this website.

[10splayer]

Another problem equivalent to not dwelling on basics, particularly in tennis: Not forming crisp opinions. And if some of those opinions start with aesthetic appreciation, fine, since, as Chris Lewit for one has said, "Beautiful strokes are good strokes." Tennis, with its huge mental/aesthetic component, rewards people for being sure of themselves.

When asked if he was going to work on Sampras's backhand, Anacone said, "No, Pete thinks it's a great shot". We probably would have missed out on McEnroe's awesomeness if Hopman would have changed his grips and strokes, as many advised. Or thank goodness (for Andy's sake) that Roddick was too stubborn to change that stance and delivery..

Yeah, there is definitely a genius in figuring (both as a player and coach) what, if any real changes need to be made. I would submit, that any of the above players would never have been what they were, had they abandoned what they felt was right for them....

And I agree Bottle, that what a player believes to be right, is a variable that needs to be considered. However, equally important, is convincing someone, or realizing for oneself, why a certain stroke or component will stunt future opportunity for growth.