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  • Puffed Up Forehands

    One of the many teaching pros named Craig Wilson wrote a book in which he urged his readers to C-A-A-A-R-R-R-Y the ball. That word, spelled exactly this way, was his central theme.

    Later, when his wife, who supposedly learned from him, had her greatest tennis success, some critics who had watched both of them play asserted that Crag C-A-A-A-R-R-R-IED the ball quite a bit more than Craig, a controversial statement given his high perch in the tennis world.

    I only know of Crag's success from distant reports-- everybody but I seemed to know about it one day. I can look it up, I suppose, if I can remember Crag's real first name. I came up with "Crag" since Craig never mentions her in his book and she was his wife and they lived in the center of a tennis complex high up in big mountains.

    An appraiser was there to estimate the value of their house, got caught in a storm, had to stay overnight.

    In the morning there was four inches of ice on all of the trees and roads, and two inches of ice on all the roads down in the valley so that nobody could go anywhere.

    The appraiser heard the whir of a generator and rhythmic thumping inside the garage, looked through a window from the kitchen, saw both Craig and Crag alternating shots against the rear wall.

    Craig clearly swept the ball while Crag clearly mushed it with huge racket head speed. She loaded then drove from her outside leg into a total arch of her upper bod.

    Note: Yup, Craig and Crag, a tennis couple to compete with all tennis couples, but how were their net games, does anybody know?
    Last edited by bottle; 11-03-2015, 08:35 AM.

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    • Inspire a See See by Putting a Ghost Figure on the Service Line

      Lots of players-- and I am one of them-- will surprise themselves by whipping a topspin angle in front of a real player standing or bouncing on the service line.

      Self-reaction: "Oh, I didn't know I had that shot working for me today."

      This reaction is correct. You don't take this shot (or any shot in fact) for granted. And there probably was some sort of delay involved in production of the shot whether technical or psychological or both.

      So visualize the ghost especially when your real doubles opponent is back on the baseline. If no other ghost comes up try using me, Horatio, to tell you, assuming that you are Young Hamlet, to look out for your father.

      Since the former King of Denmark, Old Hamlet, will appear in full armor, he shouldn't move too fast.
      Last edited by bottle; 11-04-2015, 04:45 AM.

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      • Carrying is good, Craig is right...

        Originally posted by bottle View Post
        One of the many teaching pros named Craig Wilson wrote a book in which he urged his readers to C-A-A-A-R-R-R-Y the ball. That word, spelled exactly this way, was his central theme.
        Interesting. I always thought the ultimate carrier of a ball was McEnroe. Short of sitting the ball on the strings then carting it to the net and letting it roll off the strings over the other side of the, it would be hard to beat McEnroe for this.

        See here, the first point, a steered return of serve is just awesome. Talk about cart the ball over the net on your strings. I swear he keeps the ball on the strings a whole second longer than anyone else...or so it seems.



        McEnrueful is the way to go for players like us. Today's forehands are sling shots with little "carrying" going on. I say carry...no sling shots.
        Stotty

        Comment


        • More McEnruefuls

          More McEnruefuls is a constant temptation, especially if one is willing to go with slice nearly all the time on the backhand side since one can use the same grip.

          Every idea at this point seems to predict new strategy in doubles. Zi-Zi the teaching pro says to be kind to oneself one should play net more but learn how to read better for a poach regardless of age.

          And you say more McEnruefuls to c-a-a-a-r-r-ry the ball.

          Good advice all the way around. And I say based on past experience to change grip once in a while if the score is 40-0 and pulverize the ball. All depends on whether one wants to be smart or feel like a teenager.
          Last edited by bottle; 11-04-2015, 06:34 AM.

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          • The Difference

            Could be wrong but here's what I think:

            McEnrueful: Arm first then body lengthens carry and followthrough. One can change direction easily by regulating speed and length of body turn. The elbow stays pretty close in while in the hitting area.

            Djokovic pattern forehand: Weld body and arm into a single unit and whirl racket around. When rod of arm gets out front push elbow in direction of shot as you wipe up and across before natural return. There is a continuing large body turn in modern forehands but the pre-contact part is much faster and laden with forward momentum. And stronger i.e. more westernized grip allows racket to stay on edge until it naturally opens out to almost square.

            Both of these shots tend toward semi-open. But in this first Djokovic video sequence (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...t%20250fps.mp4) he starts open stance and then brings left foot into the new arrangement-- an aggressive choice of footwork at end of body turn that allows shoulders to turn back even farther. I don't see why this move couldn't be applied to a McEnrueful to lengthen the carry (dwell) even more while bringing contact back a bit and giving oneself the use of more angular body movement to power and steer the shot.

            To summarize: In either guy's shot one can hit off of either foot but from preferred semi-open stance (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...tLevelRear.mov). What are the last three dance beats as far as footwork is concerned: left right left or right left right? Either for either (forget left-handedness which becomes irrelevant to this discussion).

            This they have in common. And an ability to leave the ground. Can one learn from them but stay more grounded? If one knows how (See Welby Van Horn).

            The real difference is in sequence: arm then body in McEnroe's feel and shove vs. Djokovic's body then arm in his big whack. But Djokovic has tremendous touch available to him too.
            Last edited by bottle; 11-05-2015, 01:59 AM.

            Comment


            • Another Contrast

              A lot of banking in the Djokovic stroke (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...4%20250fps.mp4). Some banking sometime in the martinet McEnroe stroke but mostly not (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterFront.mov).

              "Banking." An important aeronautical term in Welby Van Horn-Ed Weiss. If you were a wing walker you would prefer to do it more on a John McEnroe forehand than a Novak Djokovic.

              My McEnrueful, I would have to say, depends on a lot of banking at least right now.
              Last edited by bottle; 11-05-2015, 05:37 AM.

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              • Dance Baby Dance

                To a three-beat rhythm: ditditdit. Am thinking primarily but not exclusively about forehand.

                So which is it going to be, leftrightleft as in the basic neutral forehand of Stan Smith? Right left right for modern semi-open?

                Am talking about the last three steps before the ball is struck. There could have been earlier steps.

                Swing or jitterbug alternatives: Weight, weight, rockstep; ditditdit, ditditdit, rockstep (weight shifting madly from one foot to the other and back in two ditditdits before the rockstep).

                Rockstep as all things in tennis will come to pass but it is the ditditdit in swing that I want to glom into for now.

                I described one form of this. Bop is another. You stay on one foot and and bend knee twice. Middle dit is the straightening of leg in between.

                Charleston is another. Yes you can charleston while doing swing or jitterbug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUqRAUxip4U).

                In tennis I'm for using first forms of ditditdit mentioned here: 1) leftrightleft (Stan Smith), 2) right left right (Roger Federer), 3) bop (boppety) which I'm just looking into.

                How about this for a forehand? One starts with right foot. Then one steps onto left foot and bounces on it again to hit the shot.

                This ought to confuse somebody, reader, let it not be you.
                Last edited by bottle; 11-07-2015, 08:12 AM.

                Comment


                • Evolution

                  Originally posted by bottle View Post
                  The real difference is in sequence: arm then body in McEnroe's feel and shove vs. Djokovic's body then arm in his big whack. But Djokovic has tremendous touch available to him too.
                  I shouldn't change my mind while I'm hitting a shot any more than anyone else, but when I'm between matches or sleeping or taking a walk or in the shower it's perfectly healthy-- in my personal view-- to wipe something clean and start all over again.

                  In reviewing the TP treasure trove of flat-wristed John McEnroe forehands, I note that he starts with racket parallel to court. I used to start, in my McEnrueful, with racket on a 45-degree angle slanted upward, a huge difference.

                  If as Nick Wheatley in "1-2 Forehand" says, there is a danger in hand-off backswings of getting the racket back too soon, notice how McEnroe takes racket down a little before it goes up. That puts a little more time, timing and rhythm into the backswing.

                  All by myself, I changed my McEnrueful into a stroke where racket tip went directly up a little (from already being pointed up a little). Then it came feelingly down for the ball. Then I shoved the ball. I won't abandon this shot particularly when trucking toward the net for a low ball.

                  Now that my wait position has racket parallel to court, however, I feel like going down and up like McEnroe to start. Then, taking a page from his topspin backhand, I want body, not arm to take the strings downward. Now the "shove" or whole body turn can start from there. And, since arm hasn't asserted independence yet, contact area would be a good time for it to do so: One can push racket butt forward a little to increase the dwell but also at the same time twist strings a bit toward side fence as part of a slamming followthrough.
                  Last edited by bottle; 11-06-2015, 01:51 PM.

                  Comment


                  • The Tragic Flaw of the Short cc Passing Shot Subbing for a See See

                    It's a winner and therefore doesn't torture the opponent enough. The true see see has the name I gave it and is something I invented and is pretty much what I say it is-- a soft, spinny shot.

                    Both are examples of "topspin angle," to use John M. Barnaby's phrase, but the see see is a shot that the opponent napping on the baseline believes he can get to.

                    And you want him to get to it after a long run so that you can then knock off your volley to the exact same place. That is the plan, part of which is to discourage and tire him-- something that a clean winner will never do.

                    Nevertheless, you should try for a clean winner, I believe, near the beginning of the first doubles set. The see see is a confidence shot in two different ways, 1) you need to build up the relaxed confidence to hit it and 2) you need to build up your opponent's confidence to make him run forward.

                    Remember, the pass subbing for a see see is a shot in which you imagine a king or knight in full armor camped out on the service line while the real opponent is back on the baseline.

                    Reader, you may think this substitute shot, hit with full mustard though still brush up, is all you ever need.

                    And you can play that way. Exquisite torture on a tennis court however (pointless, banal and ugly beyond belief off of a tennis court), is sublime.
                    Last edited by bottle; 11-07-2015, 05:43 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Personal Distinction Between Struck and Caressed Volleys

                      Why should one make a personal distinction when one can do things by the book?

                      Because one must learn to trust one's own experience and learn this early whether the U.S. Education System believes so or not.

                      Caressed or massaged in which one primarily uses the speed of the oncoming ball: Get foot down as part of skating into ball and stay solid and deflect.

                      Struck or sticked: Make hips rotation driven contact just before the foot sets down.

                      What if you got stuck with foot in the air? You will have to improvise, I guess.
                      Last edited by bottle; 11-08-2015, 10:19 AM.

                      Comment


                      • McEnroe Type Forehand Not Working? Try This.

                        "I hate the continental grip!" This from a close friend, occasional doubles partner and very good tennis player.

                        I've even heard from actual teaching pros of the certified sort that if you use a continental grip you will hit the ball up into the sky. These guys definitely think that John McEnroe as model doesn't count because he is so retro and weird.

                        First thing to note is that McEnroe doesn't use a continental but rather a composite grip one notch toward eastern forehand.

                        Second, one can ask how closed are his shoulders at contact, and exactly where is contact, and is there anything else in the McEnroe forehand that affects pitch in a way that might help one to control it?

                        I would suggest a slight pushing of the elbow toward the ball. If shoulders are open this will increase the openness of the already open grip, but if shoulders are closed the same thrust will CLOSE the strings.

                        Then add this knowledge-- if elbow thrusts to outside of ball rather than straight at it the strings will close and direct ball farther in crosscourt direction.

                        This feels nothing like a vigorous twist of the elbow that sacrifices all predictable control.

                        P.S. Some may have the talent to add a bit of knee straightening and radial deviation in wrist area to the mix. Others can still hit a deep hard (carried) shot no doubt more easily produced than anything else in their current tennis lexicon.
                        Last edited by bottle; 11-10-2015, 06:37 AM.

                        Comment


                        • How Much Energy Do People Spend in Designing their own Game?

                          Not enough. They mostly accept ready-made grids from teaching pros-- not that I want to knock hard-working tennis pros.

                          The criticism here is of the students themselves for not being more rebellious and innovative.

                          Comment


                          • Hard to Soft; Soft to Hard

                            Knowledgeable people say that planning in tennis is important, so I'm going to believe them and plan right now.

                            Those knowledgeable people hit pretty hard most of the time then once in a while hit soft.

                            The ones I most admire though hit soft (but deep) then hit hard just when they want to.

                            That for me. But the soft shots can be solid. And go pretty fast (a paradox). They just are not rocket fast like the other very spinny shot which I'm going to save for a special occasion in the seventh game.

                            Comment


                            • The One I Might Like to Go With



                              There is drive from outside leg, right? And load on that leg first. Late load, one could say.

                              Subject of study: The banking (aeronautical) in this shot.

                              One can see the racket go slightly down at beginning of the forward shot, no?

                              If we call John McEnroe an airplane, his back wing tips down a small amount.

                              At the same time his outside leg bends: an answer to the question of what makes the wing tip or racket tip in this case go down.

                              Body construction is solid and upright. The leading candidate for another answer was body tilt happening to make the racket go down-- and that might work-- but isn't what we see here.

                              No, John McEnroe, the martinet, keeps his posture fully erect.

                              And yet banking occurs. From the leg first and then the hitting shoulder second and then that same shoulder banks down.

                              Note: When one drives from leg one can keep knee slightly bent so as to let feet come more easily off the ground. Degree of bank is also increased by opposite foot first perching on its toes. Last ditditdit then consists of step by outside foot, step by inside foot, outside leg bending to load where it is (replacement step). Flattoesload-hit. Ditditdit-hit. This feels better to me if I only put about half of my weight on the inside foot. Regardless of how one got there, one now puts down the outside foot and bops on it with inside toes briefly touching the court between the step and the bop. Certainly not what happens every time but it did happen this time.
                              Last edited by bottle; 11-10-2015, 11:56 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Discovery vs. Learning

                                "They are the same," you say.

                                In theory but not in practice.

                                It will take you longer.-- Vic Braden

                                Tennis will come to you.-- Steve Navarro

                                The excitement here derives from simple comparison of posts 2774, 2771, 2768 and thereabouts (note especially Stotty's significant contribution to the progression).

                                Hey listen, reader. The partial knee replacement and the pure unreplaced knee already are acting up a little. I therefore surmise not much time left to claim that I have brought my McEnrueful another step toward the ideal.

                                The ideal lies in a squeak. The squeak lies in this video (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelRear4.mov). No lie here that there is a squeak, a chi-chi. Put the cursor somewhere in the video undercarriage just before the chi-chi of John McEnroe's sneaker and hold the left button down until you get the chi-chi to repeat over and over.

                                Fool around with this technology to which Jeffrey Counts contributed. Figure out the dance sequence that John McEnroe is using here, taking the squeak as cue. Do you know, reader, that if you shift from computer mouse to arrows on a keyboard a special box forms around the video undercarriage and that the box then has special properties for you to explore?

                                Well, I see the possibilities here for us together to learn the best McEnrueful possible, but first you should adjust (mush) your face. Make it long and sad. Make it bony too if you are a person who carries flesh. To hit a McEnrueful you need not only emulate John McEnroe but the skeletal Don Quixote himself, "the knight of the rueful countenance" in the Samuel Putnam translation.

                                This is the aspect that broadway musicals and other adaptations of the novel DON QUIXOTE always miss-- the knight's depth of pain and sadness. Do you think those bowdlerizers actually know how to read? I don't.

                                Well well well three holes in a row. In John McEnroe's autobiography John finds his own physicality unremarkable except for very strong legs.

                                Does one want to load outside leg late with a chi-chi from the other foot's toes and in a number of other videos but with no chi-chi and slightly different footwork?

                                Or does one want to keep inside foot flat and whirl hips into it as in the basic grounded Welby Van Horn forehand?
                                Last edited by bottle; 11-11-2015, 03:54 AM.

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