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  • And An Iteration After That

    Turn over elbow a lot. If one turns it over enough one can use a mild grip, perhaps even the one that one will use to volley the ball to the exact same spot.

    The iteration:

    1) Mild body turn limited by outside foot step out and combined with keying of racket head down while forming angle in arm.

    2) Shoulders are still while elbow continues to turn and rise.

    3) Turn shoulders slowly into shot while performing mondo and forearm brush followed by a slight straightening of arm.
    Last edited by bottle; 09-18-2015, 08:27 PM.

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    • See See Taffy Turn to Hit the Ball

      How many people can consistently hit this shot? One in a thousand. Accomplished players may have great feel and direction in their other shots, but not in this one where their mechanics are suspect because they were not brave enough to alter what they usually do.

      I shall go with the mechanics of # 2686 through self-feed on Saturday, Sunday and Monday. The one change I envision is taffy turn. Taffy turn is forward turn, self-explanatory description of slowness as platform for the sidearm throw.

      I shall work on my serve too, try for the "shoulders banked with shoulder of the hitting arm finishing higher than shoulder of tossing arm" of Van Horn/Weiss. And criss-crossed arms on left side. Those criss-crossed service finishes were characteristic of Charlie Pasarel, a student of Van Horn in Puerto Rico, whose very good serve also had a few other old-fashioned elements I now wish to incorporate in my own.

      All this for three sets of doubles early Tuesday morn.

      Note: Someone in the tennis teaching industry has been trying to call me, I assume in connection with # 2676 . People should be interested in that. To step up to a wall and take a tennis stroke as if you are hitting into the wall and through it and then two seconds later to see yourself projected on the wall (from behind) hitting that same shot in every particular is a great learning experience. You then hit the same shot only make it look better, watch, try again, keep going, try again.
      Last edited by bottle; 09-19-2015, 01:37 PM.

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      • Originally posted by bottle View Post
        The New York Times had a trivial article today about whether Roland Garros should be called Roland Garros or The French Open. The article didn't go deeper than identifying Roland Garros as a French aviator. And wondering about the connection between early aviation and tennis since Roland Garros played rugby.

        The connection, as far as I am concerned, has to do with courage. If you want to know what I mean, read the book WIND, SAND AND STARS by Antoine de Saint-Exupery. And look for the part where Roland Garros has crashed in the Andes and walks an incredible distance in frostbite producing temperatures and deep snow.

        This is the best prose ever on the subject of taking one step in order to take a lot of steps.
        I bought the book today. It sounded like the sort of book I might like.
        Stotty

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        • I predict that you won't be disappointed. While I was in England I picked out from a shelf in John Cowper's house a book I thought I might be interested in. When I got home I ordered it online, A GLASTONBURY ROMANCE by John Cowper Powys. The only trouble with it (not really a trouble) is that it is longer than either ANNA KARENINA or WAR AND PEACE. And when Amazon asked me to review it I was only on page 64 . So I reviewed the beginning of it. (http://www.amazon.com/Glastonbury-Ro...DateDescending). Still the most recent review.
          Last edited by bottle; 09-19-2015, 02:40 PM.

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          • Yes I came across the book when weaving back to try and find tennis_chiro's post on the shot putters (and our comments around it)...where he says suggests shot putters gain maximum power by keeping their right foot on the ground for a long time after releasing the weight. I wanted to study the clip he posted...just love the way they scissor kick to get back on balance so as not fall out of the circle.



            I read the opening pages on Amazon. I liked the writing style immediately so just had to buy the book.
            Stotty

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            • Taffy Turn Further Explored

              A manly sugar-free version of this see see might replace the taffy with molten lava.

              The engineers among us could achieve the slow smooth body purpose here through reversing usual 10-to-1 ratio of forward to backward body turn in an ordinary forehand.

              Now we use one timing unit to control the deliberate elbow twist through the two phases of its upswing (body and solo).

              But should the forward body turn be 10 times as slow as this? Exactly as slow? Two times as slow? Four? Mess around.

              Intellectually (a bad word, I know), the significant departure here is from the fast forward body turn in every big forehand we have ever known.

              Now, our slowly rotating shoulders allow plenty of time for mondo and forearm wipe and a bit of post contact straightening of the arm still on a clear path into the alley, short.
              Last edited by bottle; 09-20-2015, 02:23 AM.

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              • Self-Feed Report

                Got more spin if I used a pre-shoulders mondo since the taffy turn does not carry enough momentum to activate anything.

                The increased spin was a victory though not as great as that of Steve D'Arcis in Davis Cup.

                A pre-forward-shoulders mondo suggests to me at least scaling a rock or in baseball an infielder's sidearm throw to first.

                Yes there is slow taffy turn but it doesn't begin until the mondo is formed.

                A second point is that if one is getting under the ball too much thereby sending it too high one can adjust mondo to go farther away from ball rather than exclusively down.

                The more one learns about see see mondo the more one realizes it consists of hand layback and hand turn-down from forearm against a stable elbow.

                One could, theoretically, do one or the other rather than both.

                And I have it on good authority that in many of the shots delivered by the most accomplished players the hand lays exclusively back.

                The dichotomy may be false however. I mean that this is not a one or the other case.

                As in so much in tennis there can be varying degrees of mix.
                Last edited by bottle; 09-20-2015, 10:47 AM.

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                • The Smallest, Smoothest, Mildest Loop Possible

                  The Coyote and The Roadrunner is certainly not my favorite version of the Sisyphus myth but nevertheless is the one I am currently stuck with.

                  The see see is a beep beep that I would like to squish once and for all, and the shot is screwed for tomorrow doubles. Maybe it will be ready for next week doubles.

                  Too many recent changes have crossed my neuronal wires, so I will request the backhand side in two out of the three sets we play with a different partner. Reality not arrogance is behind that. We (my partner and I) will have a better chance to win.

                  On the other hand, "You play with the shot you practiced," Stan Smith said-- for me personally the most profound tennis maxim ever coined.

                  And today in self-feed I'm going to try: 1)a) twisting elbow internally, 1)b) twisting forearm externally. 1) is combined with unit turn limited by the car governor of outside foot step-out.

                  Then 2) farm gate combined with layback of wrist. As I try it in this office the racket automatically eases down somewhat.

                  Then 3) forearm will roll for the brush followed by slight straightening of elbow along the path of departing ball followed by a wrap with these actions to be embedded in a taffy turn.

                  Notes: There is no body rotation happening during 2). And the grip is the grip that works.
                  Last edited by bottle; 09-21-2015, 01:38 PM.

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                  • Higher Forehand, Lower Backhand

                    Once one thinks one is Djokovic thanks to an imitation Djokovic forehand, one may find oneself hitting the ball too flat and low.

                    I see this as a function of the vertical racket in middle of this Djokofore. For a microsecond the racket stands on end. Then the strings come down right behind the ball. A good time to do wrist layback part of mondo without forearm roll down part of mondo.

                    One can swing really hard because of the good separation and solid connection of arm and body for a long time. "I'm solid, I'm really driving the ball."

                    The mistake would be to think that you can't swing just as hard on a moonball. The racket is more open but the ball trajectory is longer. You use more sky. This factor and the other-- topspin-- keep the ball in.

                    How to make the change? 1) be aware of pitch after same loop. 2) make loop more of a C-shape if you like pencil-thin loops and aren't worried about disguise.

                    Similarly on a one-hand backhand one could take racket back higher for flatter version, keeping same size of loop.

                    If one wished more disguise one could learn to make the change from the same higher backswing at all times.

                    Disguise however is overrated. Better to learn the technical change first with a same size forehand loop and a same size backhand loop.

                    I am not saying that my forehand and backhand loops are identical-- they're not.
                    Last edited by bottle; 09-22-2015, 09:56 AM.

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                    • A Significant Invention, Tough to Take by Disbelievers in Significant Invention

                      My only purpose was to improve my see see by coming up with a small and stupid thing to spark up my taffy turn.

                      Once I had the stupid thing in hand, however, I could see at once its universal application.

                      (Please note the spelling of "its," which contains no apostrophe. Possessive its never splits.)

                      As part of a unit turn the racket head can turn down to key the elbow up. As part of the same unit turn the racket strings can then open from forearm roll just the way they do in a normal mondo albeit earlier. Now, since forearm has rolled, a motion driven layback of wrist will take the racket tip naturally down on a roughly right-angled arm.

                      This brings "farm hinge" back into the equation of a full forehand where the equal sign points to the word "good." One may or may not want a new forehand (I know I don't), but like it or not here it is.

                      One need only apply the vigorous body turn from all the full forehands one already knows.

                      I haven't tried this shot yet. Refraining from doing so may prove difficult.

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                      • Report

                        Yes that was true. I had spent quite a few days in honing a Djokofore but might as well have thrown it out the window since the new shot described in # 2695 but never hit not even in self-feed appeared more dependable from the first shot in warm-ups.

                        And every time I tried the Djokofore during the match I overhit until an hour and a half passed. Then that Djokofore began to plunge in as the new shot finally began to reveal its overly conceptual underpinning.

                        Future path for this new shot: Turn elbow up quickly and racket up from forearm slowly. A ratio of one to three should work fine. It all happens during unit turn and trip to the ball.
                        Last edited by bottle; 09-22-2015, 08:23 AM.

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                        • Next Idea

                          How important is forehand loop in generating racket head speed? It is an old and persistent question, and rather than pretend to have the answer, I shall simply say, "One should consider downsizing one's strokes as one grows older."

                          Suppose that one has a nice loop on one's forehand. Should one eliminate it? That certainly is a way of making some stroke smaller. I think I've done it with my composite grip "McEnrueful," my go-to forehand in situations of greatest doubles pressure. Body work is pretty much the same as with any other forehand-- largeness and speed of forward turn is everything. The linear arm work though is way stripped down, goes up and down in both directions a very short amount on an incline of about 20 to 30 degrees that melds into beefy uppercut around a slightly tilted straight spine.

                          It's a good stroke especially when moving forward but secondary nevertheless.

                          The minimal loop of # 2695-6 has got to be of interest at least for me. If downward key of elbow followed by upward key of forearm-- for sure "a ripple effect"-- works in a variety of shots, why not as a substitute for the big loop with its brief moment of skunk tail or racket standing on end of Novak Djokovic?

                          The big difference from the shots recently learned would be the absence of "farm gate," that very useful device for establishing precise aim.

                          Arm on backswing would employ the two rolls but extend somewhat from the elbow to create greater extension just as in a Djokovic forehand.

                          Body once again and not the closing farm gate of a right-angled arm would provide the impetus that activates one's mondo.

                          Best, by making backward forearm roll and wrist layback sequential, one has made the mondo half as complicated and twice as mild.
                          Last edited by bottle; 09-24-2015, 08:43 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Today: Rolled Over Racket in Waiting Position

                            Key down to get keying down out of the way. Deal with the backhand consequences later. Use this different waiting position to generate new forehands arrayed from delicacy to uninhibited power. They might include:

                            1) A see see with elbow kept close into the body for much of the stroke. Followthrough now (the part of stroke after contact) to embrace sim (simultaneous if not simian) elbow straightening and elbow moving out from body.

                            2) Elbow again kept close into the body (initially) with addition of full body turn and speed. (I prefer push-the-medicine-ball shots here in which farm gate closing takes strings right up to the ball before core turn and optional upward brush from forearm roll chime in.)

                            3) Elbow permitted finally to go out behind one as arm somewhat unbends as slow roll from forearm continues. This is a big separation/big extension shot as in a true Djokofore. (The extension, established behind one, continues to the side of one and in the front of one. But backswing started out as in the first two shots.)

                            4) Extend arm from elbow more. Don't roll racket tip up as in 1), 2) & 3). Use full mondo rolling last instant from upper rather than lower arm. This is the remnant of my Federfore, which received considerable psychic investment and physical myelination. (Uninhibited wipe from the shoulder with elbow turning at contact is its hallmark.)

                            A more conceptual and less experiential version however could substitute full arm roll for forearm roll throughout the backswing. Then the mondo which also could be defined as one's loop in its entirety would consist only of motion driven layback from wrist.

                            Let's be clear though. Although I've experimented with workable if somewhat mediocre power shots that put no significant arm work between the opposite rotations of the shoulders, today's design which could be different tomorrow restores some arm after backward body turn.

                            Hand may passively lay back/down to form a natural loop but same hand may still be going back. The natural loop then is an alloy of hand travel and hand bend.
                            Last edited by bottle; 09-23-2015, 02:31 PM.

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                            • Three-Inch Step to Right

                              The "third movement of the adjustment foot" is a subtle idea in that most subtle of instruction books SECRETS OF A TRUE TENNIS MASTER, which contains teachings of Welby Van Horn.

                              A right-hander may only come to realize after well spaced out re-readings of the book that while this tiny extra step of a few inches figures in catching momentum and achieving balance partway through a square step-out forehand, the first purpose is to add to amount of fast hips turn in a forward direction.
                              Last edited by bottle; 09-23-2015, 02:27 PM.

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                              • A Hidden Quandary in One's Most Basic Forehand

                                The most basic forehand is a neutral one where you use inside foot to step toward the net. People may start their tennis career by learning it but maybe they should end with it too.

                                A return to more basic forehands as one gets older seems not a bad idea. Semi-open forehand could become the second choice.

                                There could be a significant difference however between neophyte and troglodyte.

                                A very experienced instructor might teach the neophyte to draw his inside (anchor) foot in front of his outside (adjustment) foot in order then to step squarely at the net.

                                When one studies the photos and not just the words in SECRETS OF A TRUE TENNIS MASTER, one sees that Welby Van Horn taught his students to do this.

                                A very good instructor-- but not Welby Van Horn-- taught me to do this too but perhaps with not enough conviction.

                                In time, left to myself, I thought, "Why take that arrhythmic, awkward and extra in between step? Or am I supposed to move both feet at once-- splay the right while bringing the left in front of it?"

                                Somebody may be talented enough to do that while keeping head, balance and travel together but not I. The result of my excision meant decades of diagonal stepouts-- less effective for a number of reasons.

                                So, in looking at the SECRETS photos very carefully, I notice that the outside foot is not as splayed as the foot taught by all prominent instructors other than Welby.

                                Is Welby wrong? Doubtful. My 75-year-old's solution is use the preferred three-step neutral shot rhythm of Stan Smith and Tom Okker as judged from instruction, photos and video of both.

                                Smith and Okker probably are a little different from one another-- can't recall. But to do like Smith you don't whirl outside foot to start. Instead, you immediately move inside foot as part of a three bit rhythm-- left right left, splaying middle step no more or less than Welby's spec.

                                For balls that are farther away use semi-open, or if you have to, open stance, and figure out all over again how much and when to splay the outside foot.
                                Last edited by bottle; 09-24-2015, 08:50 AM.

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