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Not Another He
Roger Federer: "There shouldn't be another me."
So let's try to be exactly like Juan Del Potro.
I'm half-kidding.
Because to be roughly like Roger Federer was never a bad idea.
To be roughly like Juan Del Potro won't be a bad idea, either.
Roger turns his shoulders as he points across.
Juan's shoulders are already turned as he points across.
And Bottle-I only cares about the design that eventually will work best for Bottle-me. I furthermore am partial to any forehand backswing that spreads itself out on the way to the ball but am open to variety in the way that this may occur.
So I now return-- maybe just for Tuesday-- to the Three Musketeers complete shoulders and hips turn that is one for all and all for one with forearm pivoting up too. (The usual way that such excellent unit turn is preached is to keep opposite hand on the racket's throat but one can simply keep the two hands pretty close to one another for same result.)
Now the arms separate. Call the backward movement of the right elbow "The Nudge." But halfway through "The Nudge" one (Juan?) drives off outside foot to activate one's gross body parts.
The god of reverse action should love this new shot. Forward body rotations will counter the arm stretching back and wanting to catch up.
Now comes "The Flip." But whatever happened to "Tapping the Dog?" "Tapping the Dog" will have to take care of itself with a slower, more deliberate version of "Tapping the Dog" scheduled for restoration on Thursday since I plan to use this newest design in round robin play on Wednesday (tomorrow) after I try it out today at remote lakeside courts where nobody will notice me doing self-feed.Last edited by bottle; 07-16-2013, 10:46 AM.Comment
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Shotput Serves
Because I want a longer runway to the ball, I've been looking into shotput serves based on Don's videos in # 1670 . And who says that a runway has to be straight? Certainly not a modern shotputter.
The best example I know of shotput serve in tennis is Boris Becker. In some of the many videos of him serving in Tennis Player, his left leg kicks back a lot, in some a little, and maybe if I keep looking I'll find one where the left foot stays put like Tilden or Budge.
One fact apparent from dance class: If left leg kicked back a lot there was a good push off of right.
Another: Feet aren't set too far apart. This allows a good double leg shotgun blast as in the sport of crew-- note similarity of this with Andy Roddick.
Another: Hips rotate backward in perfect tandem with bending knees. Hips then rotate forward with extending knees. The two actions are linked almost as if one is doing a standing jump with a half twist-- a fancy dive up into space.
This serve is good for a player hoping to save a bum front leg since back leg helps out.
Very conventional paused or frozen right-angled trophy or throw position cocked as toss goes up seems to work best for me. (And I was prejudiced from decades of continuous arm motion.)
Nothing but knees and hips and twisting upper body take this medium high frozen arm pose (a right angle) down and around.
As one spirals up and into the ball the shoulders can pull down a little to add horizontal weight.
Hips rotation is more emphatic when back leg pushes rather than being the leg that kicks back.
The rotorded server-- he or she with limited flexibility for bringing the racket tip down low (we all would like to twist it to perpendicular to the court but can't) may want to turn Becker's stance clockwise. Just pretend that Boris Becker is a doll. Grab him over his head and turn him a bit to the right. The purpose of this is to provide more shotputter's whirl to compensate for one's physical limit. Toss for this serve won't be a problem if tossing arm is only angled 20 degrees forward from the baseline.
Postscript: The white stripe on his shorts, in the following clip, shows Becker's hips rotating backward which action melds into his deep knee bend. Spiral up then followed by a push from both shoulders seems a good description even for this second serve:
Last edited by bottle; 07-16-2013, 11:02 AM.Comment
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When to intervene...
You are amazing, bottle. Your thread often coincides or intertwines with my coaching thoughts.
Some time ago on your thread I had a fascinating interchange of thoughts with 10splayer about coaching intervention.
Now, when Becker serves he lands on his right foot and not his left - unusual. The landing foot should be the left foot (if player is right-handed).
Stotty also lands on the wrong foot.
Becker gets away with it while Stotty's serve is impeded by it. For me it is a flaw, for Becker it isn't.
In the same clip of Stotty serving you will notice I have a rotary toss where I slightly over rotate the tossing arm. A flaw? No, I get away with it. At the point just prior to over rotating my tossing arm works independently from my shoulders so nothing is thrown out of kilter and no disorientating effect occurs.
There is a lesson right here and it is darned important.
Before coaches go wading in to fix unsightly looking problems, they should ask themselves: Does he/she get away with it?
Does Stotty get away with landing on the wrong foot as Becker does? No...fix it.
Does Stotty get away with over rotating on his his ball toss? Yes...leave well alone.
You're a gem, bottle...you provoke my thoughts.StottyComment
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What about these guys?!
Newcombe serve:Originally posted by licensedcoach View PostYou are amazing, bottle. Your thread often coincides or intertwines with my coaching thoughts.
Some time ago on your thread I had a fascinating interchange of thoughts with 10splayer about coaching intervention.
Now, when Becker serves he lands on his right foot and not his left - unusual. The landing foot should be the left foot (if player is right-handed).
Stotty also lands on the wrong foot.
Becker gets away with it while Stotty's serve is impeded by it. For me it is a flaw, for Becker it isn't.
In the same clip of Stotty serving you will notice I have a rotary toss where I slightly over rotate the tossing arm. A flaw? No, I get away with it. At the point just prior to over rotating my tossing arm works independently from my shoulders so nothing is thrown out of kilter and no disorientating effect occurs.
There is a lesson right here and it is darned important.
Before coaches go wading in to fix unsightly looking problems, they should ask themselves: Does he/she get away with it?
Does Stotty get away with landing on the wrong foot as Becker does? No...fix it.
Does Stotty get away with over rotating on his his ball toss? Yes...leave well alone.
You're a gem, bottle...you provoke my thoughts.
Smith(2:39) and Nastase(8:10)
Becker has a lot more kick with that left foot than you do, Stotty. And a lot more than Newcombe, Smith or Nastase! But they all served pretty well and a lot more consistently than today's players.
donComment
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Thanks, both of you, for this exchange. Me, I'm just hoping my "new" serve is as good today with people on the opposite side of the net as it was yesterday when I was playing solitaire.
One thing about Becker: There is no step to complicate his compression and release. His serve is elegant, simple and way stripped down.
Even the toss in this "convention" of serving can be very uncluttered since the hips don't wind back until ball is launched. If toss weren't high enough, one could bow and unbow a little like Becker himself just to add a little juice. But perhaps that's unnecessary. Perhaps one can just stand there like an upright if relaxed stiff before rigor mortis sets in.Last edited by bottle; 07-17-2013, 05:03 AM.Comment
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More Becker
Did play. Too much heat and humidity however to conclude anything much less play particularly well.
Becker does turn backward as he tosses, just not very much.
Rocks backward (arms go down). That takes front toes up. Rocks forward. (Tossing arm and racket head go up.)
NOW he coils and springs. My opinion: His legs don't turn as he coils. His legs do turn as he springs.
It's really down up, down up-- pretty simple and with ease.Last edited by bottle; 07-17-2013, 12:26 PM.Comment
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Rear Leg Working Harder
Disagree, reader, if you'd like, but that's what I see right now in this particular video:
Will all of this help the self-interested me? Maybe. Still not there yet, but the guys I play with ALL have replacements or a typical history of five meniscus tears, and attempts to adjust to all such stuff seem valid and reasonable and maybe even universal.Last edited by bottle; 07-17-2013, 12:19 PM.Comment
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What's This?
Ono, he's doing it the other way.
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Optimism Schmoptimism
At dawn after playing badly:
Self-feed session, Pier Park Courts (3), Grosse Pointe Farms, Michigan:
On the distant court farthest over the water: Guy with his shirt off who was using a ball machine to drill poorly designed forehands deep into his lizard brain the other day. He now is playing against his usual opponent and talking too much about handle size.
On the middle court: A couple. She calls her husband's ball out. He mumbles that he couldn't hear the call. She makes a full speech: "From now on I'm going to call every ball and my call will be very clear and very loud."
She keeps her word. Overlooked, perhaps, is the issue of tone. Each time she calls "Out!" she means "Your ball was out by a zillion miles and you're a silly jackass."
Everybody on all three courts knows this to be true.
Me-- meanwhile-- I've got the inside track, the court closest to the skaters' warming building made of nice stone where the fence is rounded into a handy cul de sac to corral any errant Boris Becker serve.
So how's the slice, so uncontrollable yesterday? In self-feed it thunders, looking good here but portending more misses the next time I complete (which will be tomorrow). Waltke's version is slightly easier to hit with only slightly worse result. So "be a hopeless romantic" (my brother's words) and stay with Rosewallian version # 1 from Davis Cup '54, the video? The complication is the skunk tailed preparation followed by hips vs. arm extension (passive) and arm loading backward (active) and arm twisting backward (active). That's two actives and one passive on a single brain impulse on a day so hot that the cops are stationed all over the town to check for melting power lines.
And the ATP Style Forehand: All in, Bottle? Back to turning shoulders while pointing across and pausing them while tapping the dog.
The difference shall be in all notions of reverse action. One CAN do reverse action before the tap. Or after the tap. I tried both. Now: Reverse action right at tap on the theory that downward racket motion creates an anchor against all gross body conniptions to form a stretch in the arm.Last edited by bottle; 07-18-2013, 06:23 AM.Comment
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I Like This One
Can't see why anyone wouldn't try it.
Am temporarily at least giving up on the greater whirl of modern shotputters since there's already a lot of that kind of whirl in this serve.
In so doing am becoming more of a slavish imitator of Boris Becker, despite the rotorded shoulder which will never allow anywhere near the depth of his racket drop.
This decision represents the old idea, "You use what you got." You abandon your thoughts of radical revision-- at least temporarily. So, stance a little wider and less turned around, toes up on front heel during initial drop, etc., etc., etc.
A higher toss buys time for the late but rhythmic compression-extension of the legs.
Becker's serve is so easy to understand that even a blind chicken (imitating) may find a kernel of corn.
Caveat: Thrust of front hip toward net can start during toss and continue through leg compression-- that might not be apparent.
The understandability of this serve should be contrasted with Andy Roddick's despite technical similarities the greatest of which is double leg drive.Last edited by bottle; 07-18-2013, 11:50 AM.Comment
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ONO, Not a Double-Clutch!
This video clearly shows tossing hand dropping to right leg and then performing a double-clutch. Will have to view other videos to see if this is the Beckerisch norm.
Double-clutch but only gets to his hoo-hah.
Yup, and here's a first serve with double-clutch and hand to rear leg.
Last edited by bottle; 07-18-2013, 01:58 PM.Comment
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Toss Videos
Here:
The last little vertical mini-drop down the back leg sure looks important. You wouldn't want to imitate the slanted path the tossing hand took to get there when you go the other way.
But is there, way beyond mannerism, more significance to this little "double-clutch?" It slows everything down, does it not? Sort of like dead stick in billiards. I don't use dead stick in billiards but might here.Last edited by bottle; 07-19-2013, 04:40 AM.Comment
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Stay on back foot long enough for a double-clutch whether you do it or not.Comment
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So Long, Boris!
Love everything about your serve except the toss, Boris. But if I change from your toss to my toss, then my serve is no longer Beckerisch but Escherisch. Sobeit!Comment
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