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A New Year's Serve

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  • bottle
    replied
    1-2, not 1-2-3

    1-2-3 is toss-wind-hit.

    1-2 is toss/wind-hit.

    1-2 is skate off right leg-skate off left leg.

    At least for me it is.

    This design is for kick and "flat."

    For slice, one can rotate hip forward against braced front leg then send arm around the shoulders.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Continuation of Cross-cutting Service Idea but with Reverse Sequence of the Two Legs Firing

    There just wasn't enough on those serves-- at least on clay-- but I'm happy to bring across the same initial stance (left knee pointed at side fence, right knee splayed a bit so it roughly points at two fences).

    I'm thinking, Start with weight on rear foot. The whole toss-wind mechanism is now so economical that one can get a whole lot of the serve out of the way almost at the outset. You can accomplish a lot you may have always wished for in a short time.

    I'm thinking also, Start with legs fairly close together and then step about a foot toward the net but with weight still on rear foot. This can create an effectively very wide platform stance that will help you tilt low.

    Then skate from rear foot to tilt even lower. Then skate (cross-cutting toward net) from outer edge of front foot.

    Rear foot action accompanies curveball arm work.

    Front foot action accompanies screwball arm work.

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  • bottle
    replied
    The Three Most Interesting Aspects of Rotordedness in Serving

    1) You are like most servers in the world.

    2) The teaching establishment doesn't give a ____. Or a ____. Or a ________________________. Is this a comment on you or on the teaching establishment?

    3) You can't do enough to counteract your rotordedness. To this end I propose getting both knees pointed at side fence in a wide platform stance.

    Next toss while gliding under the ball as if it is a limbo stick.

    Next skate backward off of front foot.

    Next skate backward off of rear foot.

    Complete serve. Repeat in 1-2-3 rhythm.

    Term: "rotordedness." Look it up in previous posts.

    The real subject of this post: Sequential extension of the legs while skating (specifically, cross-cutting) even though initial glide still is operative.

    I forgot: If you do point left knee at side fence but splay right knee a bit so it points at two fences instead of one you may generate some better inside out action.

    Experiments: Keep them fluid. Don't be overly sure of anything.
    Last edited by bottle; 03-01-2017, 10:17 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Double Barrel Shotgun Use of Legs?

    Tried it yesterday. Mostly held serve. But, as my old friend Jim said (and he played on the tour after all), some sort of asymmetrical use of the legs usually works better, or at least most playing pros think so. And even when I held serve I felt the serves were a bit mediocre.

    Well, I'd rather have too many ideas than too few. What definitely was nice yesterday was the new kata of bent hitting elbow going back as bent tossing arm forms a vertical scimitar.

    But one can get too carried away by this. It's entrancing in that it reduces moving parts. It is a unifying, simplifying notion, viz., I recently was straightening toss arm then bending it again for my "hook shot toss."

    I just want to try hitting elbow going back level in sync with the whole toss, not just the arm work previous to release.

    And clearly, extra knee bend is about to be abandoned. Achieve correct amount of knee bend straight away as part of integrated toss-and-wind. Gladys Heldman and the old TENNIS WORLD magazine were opposed to bending knees during the toss, but rules were made to be broken by those who know them.

    Rhythm of serve will still be 1-2-3 but with count # 2 consisting of rear leg drive combined with curveball phase of extending arm.

    Count # 3 now to include front leg drive somewhat in a rearward direction combined with screwballing arm action and both shoulders administering minimal push.

    Was here before and found it interesting. May have gotten off track with the double barreled shotgun idea.
    Last edited by bottle; 03-01-2017, 05:59 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Report

    Nice easy serves came in a less dramatic version of all this. The "Hi, how are ya?" was not produced. The two knees pointing in same direction were. A few more abrupt kicks were seemingly produced. Will play tomorrow.

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  • bottle
    replied
    da Head Bone Connected to da...Hip Bone

    Well it is. And what one does affects the other.

    So if one gives oneself the green light for the building of the new serve thus far, one can add some provocative head movement durig the second count of 1-2-3, i.e., toss, extra knee bend (now), and serve.

    Or one could as Vic Braden once suggested turn to a friend standing by the rear fence and say, 'Hi, how are ya?"

    This would be risky. The ball is in the air. One obviously is not watching it. Time to train for this little kata by serving blindfolded from a trampoline.

    With all of that good time put in, however, one could next drive from the two legs with knees pointed in the same direction.

    And the hips going one way more because of the head going the other way could now reverse all this.

    Second serve ace.

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  • bottle
    replied
    The Next Idea: So Crazy that You should Dismiss it Before You Even Read this

    Unless it reflects a design that works, particularly for rotorded servers, i.e., servers who for one reason or another cannot twist the humerus as far in either direction as they would like.

    In rowing we fire both legs together with no sequence between them. In tennis, both Bjorn Borg and Andy Roddick have done this in my view.

    And it was Pancho Gonzalez who suggested getting both knees pointed in the same direction whether he had one leg dominance in mind or not.

    A rotorded server, it seems to me, does not usually discover a long enough runway up to the ball each time he serves.

    But a former tour player once showed me that even the rotorded server can produce some upward ball hop if his toss was rearward enough.

    This is not the whole story. So I propose pointing both knees somewhat backward, i.e., somewhat toward the rear fence.

    Both knees, having already bent some, will fully activate in middle section of a 1-2-3 serve (Toss, Extra Leg Bend, Serve).

    To serve then, the two legs (stronger than one) will drive not forward or upward but upward and slightly backward. This will happen during the curveball part of curveball-screwball sequence.

    In latter part of arm extension, in which ISR takes over from ESR, the server will maintain the two power cords started with the double leg drive. (A power cord starts from foot and runs up same edge of the bod. If you now have two power cords, each running up on opposite edge of the bod, you begin to resemble a slanting rocket.)

    Unfortunately, you are about to cut these power cords in two, but that conceivably could be good.

    In second part of arm extension, the one containing ISR, you want some horizontal push on the ball. Not as much as in a ground stroke but some. A serve should be vertical, sure. Energy goes up, not out. But with just a bit of horizontal push worked in.

    There are a variety of ways to provide this. What I propose however is a bump back of the hips. Which produces a bump forward of the shoulders and catch-the-weight footwork. A bit of turning out of the rear hip during the striding forward of outside foot off of the court should re-direct jackknifing power from the gut over the net.
    Last edited by bottle; 02-26-2017, 02:36 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Service: A More Pared Down Use of Bend in Both Arms

    I've been here before. But the more stay-closed form of recent serves creates a new situation in which some past striving for simplicity may at last come to fruit.

    One thing is for sure: If tossing arm is bent from the start and maintains that bend the whole way to the finish, whatever independent movement of that arm there is will be accomplished from the shoulder.

    Hitting arm meanwhile will carry a similar bend until start of the throw.

    The big contrast now will occur between independence of toss arm and dependence of hit arm.

    Hit arm will go back (that's independence) but get dependent as shoulders take the racket down.

    Toss arm will start up (that's independence) and cross over head (that's still independence).

    Toss arm will hold briefly before resuming its independence.

    Rhythm 1-2-3: Toss, Extra Bend of Rear Leg, Serve.

    Note: Ice cream cone hold of the ball is seen here as essential ingredient.

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  • bottle
    replied
    1-2-3 Let's Fall in Love

    1) Windup and toss while sliding under ball.

    2) Straighten toss arm while bending rear leg a bit more.

    3) Drive off rear leg to start the serve. Continue to channel all energy upward by driving off the front leg. Stay closed in hips. Stay closed in shoulders. That prescription would be for second serves, kicks and slices. For flat serve keep same end over end idea for hips but open shoulders from gut.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Report on the Special Motion Dependent Experiment

    It worked but perhaps was mediocre or if not that then was no more promising than the curveball, screwball sequence adopted just before. In that one the forearm turns out at upper end of first half of arm extension. It's almost a snap. I don't know exactly why it works but it seems to work, and anyway, if you have invested in two different methods and one is no better than the other you may as well go with the one that is more familiar. One should like the rhythm too of last moment turning out of forearm-- twice. Elbow turns then elbow and forearm. Happens in one direction during first half of arm extension. Happens in the opposite direction during second half of arm extension.

    Once one is accustomed to this throwing pattern, one can use it in new experiments, e.g., 60-40 curveball to screwball or sliding under ball more during the integrated toss or programming in loosening and firming of the fingers.
    Last edited by bottle; 02-21-2017, 08:49 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Motion Dependence to Complete Wind-up

    I'm cooking. But I'm not a professional chef. This dish could taste awful or wonderful.

    Can't see why motion dependence isn't true in any good serve.

    In this one, I got to the point where ball was breaking in the two desired directions but not with high enough bound.

    But if curveball-screwball sequence was a productive idea, why not reverse the order of elbow twist and forearm twist in first half of the arm extension?

    That way racket head momentum ("speed without heft") could help cock (twist) humerus.

    But reversing elbow twist could still precede forearm twist in second half of the extension.

    Change of direction would then be achieved only from the belts driving (twisting) the upper arm.

    The design idea is based on the Brian Gordon animation in which circular arrows pointing in opposite direction turn different colors to illustrate his pre-load principle.

    The curveball forearm action ought to begin before arm extension but continue during this initial arm extension for this to work.

    Old logic: elbow twist followed by elbow twist and forearm twist and fingers loosening in first half of arm extension.

    New logic: forearm twist followed by continued forearm twist so that racket tip pulls humerus into a backhand or downward twist that already is trying to go the other way.

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  • bottle
    replied
    More Double Ending Alongside of Bod; also, The Preferred Tommy Haas Step-out

    More figure-eighting on rear fence side of bod.

    More feeling of hand going back toward rear fence as it comes out of the figure eight as if to catch the ball behind you as you glide forward.

    More feeling of catch and fling from deep.

    More customization of arm and wrist roll. Just a bit of wrist straightening to accompany the latter, with this to occur as you come out of the figure eight.

    One hand backhands fail, it is said, because the player does not properly "turn the corner." A synonym for that expression is "squaring up."

    All this discussion refers to a single backhand which surprised everybody the other day including myself. Is there repeatability here? Youth wants to know.

    Now we proceed to the Tommy Haas preferred step-out. Is it really preferred? My guess is that it is.

    Here's a more conventional step-out (https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...ningFront1.mov).

    Here's the preferred one (https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...nterFront1.mov). Notice how Tommy Haas only finishes turning his rear foot out (splays it) after a rock-step as in foxtrot or jitterbug (swing).
    Last edited by bottle; 02-20-2017, 06:51 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Promising. I like the way that rear leg push can start with first half of arm extension. Then push on ball can come from upper bod in second half.

    Okay, that's bod. But what about the new stuff arm is doing? Well, turning wrist out at end of first half extension is not the same as using up wrist action then in some kind of a snap. No the racket tip stays down relative to hand giving you more to work with during PUSH.

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  • bottle
    replied
    During Serve: Ripple Effect in 50-50 Arm Extension

    We start from the premise of the two halves of the arm being clenched together no matter for how brief a micro-second.

    First half of extension then feels like a curve ball being pitched straight up at the sky. The elbow turns first, clockwise if you are right-handed. The forearm turns next (but elbow could still be turning-- who knows?). Twisting energy thus ripples from humerus up to hand, in techno-speak from ESR (external shoulder rotation) to last instant hand turn.

    Second half of extension then feels like a screwball being pitched straight up at the sky. (Curveballs and screwballs are baseball language.) The elbow turns first, counter-clockwise if you are right-handed (ISR or internal shoulder rotation). Forearm turns the hand next with whole arm almost surely continuing its twist, too. (The forearm part is "pronation" as strictly defined by the sport scientists.)

    A straight line or already started power cord can tauten running up rear leg and back edge of bod for this "second half" of the extension.

    It is a sunny warm February day, a good time to try all this for first time in one's life. Once down at the park one probably should not go too fast to make a lot of time in each attempted serve for so much to take place.

    If positive results are not immediately perceived, I plan to try 2/3 curveball, 1/3 screwball instead of the 50-50 separation just outlined.

    The Doug King videos are great on this stuff, with different explanations existing in different parts of the treasure trove. The subject is complex enough that we should seek different viewpoints even if from the same man on different days, right, reader? Unless we seek the easy answers that never exist in tennis rather than self-directed slow progression or evolution.
    Last edited by bottle; 02-18-2017, 08:19 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    English Teacher Tennis Monster

    He honed his English teaching skills in the nation's prisons, elementary schools, high schools, state colleges, governor's schools for gifted kids in the arts, private and public institutions except for charter schools, not even the Agassis' one in Las Vegas.

    The idea was to help people get jobs, fulfill their dreams, learn to communicate, get into graduate school, read and write.

    And then through the slip of a gene, he turned rogue, no longer using his English teaching skills for the public good but rather to denigrate those tennis teaching pros who displeased him.

    No one knew which tennis teacher the English teacher would attack next.

    Leave a comment:

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