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  • More on Waltke Article

    Thinking more about THE SLICE BACKHAND by Trey Waltke (see post # 808, "Who has a Stronger Grip for Backhand Slice?") seems a very good idea.

    Best material on tennis technique sometimes is ridiculously simple, but is more apt to be complex and dense, requiring re-readings like a great poem that slowly gives up its deepest meanings. If nothing else, such re-readings can develop a person's patience and perceptions.

    From inside and outside of the article: If Roger Federer's big knuckle is closer to panel 1 than Ken Rosewall's is, then Roger's grip is the stronger.

    Equally interesting, though, at least to me, is the following Waltke sentence:
    "After taking tons of lessons and hearing pros bark at me my backhand improved the most by studying and mimicking the best player."

    This is the ultimate heresy in tennis. Bypass the teaching industry and play like the pros.

    But you can subsidize tennis teachers of course by keeping them on your payroll as consultants. Or you could do like Pam Shriver did with Hank Harris. Take him all over the world as your hitting partner on condition that he never speak.

    Comment


    • Considering that you are studying the slice as of present, perhaps you could provide a thought or two on my slice backhand. Linked is tournament match footage, most slices in the clips are drop shots.

      Comment


      • Thanks for the chance to comment. I'm thinking. Give me a day or two and I'll see if I can come up with some ideas. (I realize I'm not like a dermatologist/teaching pro who takes one look and instantly responds-- just not my way). Also, maybe I should be your hitting partner and not say anything, like Hank Harris in the previous post. One person did hire me as a silent hitting partner for a year and a half, but then my wife beat him and he ended our relationship the next day. He was a tennis court salesman and always played with natural gut. If he had hired me to speak, I would have told him how to beat my wife.
        Last edited by bottle; 10-02-2011, 06:32 PM.

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        • You could hire WBC. He would start by replacing all of your teeth.

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          • Servicing the Tennis Strokes Along 100 Miles of the Erie Canal

            The teaching pro will be more effective if he rides a horse.

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            • Where Serving Instruction Most Breaks Down?

              It is at the point where the elbow has just inverted upward as the result of natural forces in the gross body.

              Some pros, in describing what they think ought to come next, then speak of "adduction" and may even pantomime same.

              Others then, of course, are only interested in abduction, particularly if the student is female and good looking.

              Bill Mathias of Winchester, Virginia, a great guy who lost to Fred Perry in Guyana long before Jim Jones and his followers settled there, said, at a rather advanced age, "I have just discovered the secret of power in serving. It lies in arching your back."

              This was funny to hear since Bill was an extremely accomplished player, having won the national 65's on both grass and clay. Among his other virtues, he had spent a lifetime cultivating a fantastic drop-shot hit from behind the baseline.

              Well, he was already very old when I knew him, and by then he could only hit this great shot fifty per cent of the time. When it was on, though, he wouldn't miss one the whole day long. And he would destroy the same relatively young player (Mitch), who destroyed him the week before. It was an astounding sight to see.

              One question Bill's remark about serving-- because he never just kidded-- raised for me was about "un-arching." If "arching" is important, isn't "un-arching," too? In fact, the USPTA pro who worked with me tried to get me to "husk." That was the word he used. The opposite of arching, I decided.

              Then, in these pages decades later, Don Brosseau, a chiropractor among many other things, went two ways, scientific and common parlance at once.

              Scientific: Line up the spine of scapula with your upper arm. Common parlance: delay the slingshot aspect of this.

              All this led me to the Wikipedian definitions of "scapular retraction" and "scapular adduction" and that's where I am right now, wondering how much one should do it on the hitting side of the body only, or should one arch both sides equally, then fire just from the hitting side (?), etc. Finally it comes down or up to what feels like a Justin Verlander pitch.

              But I've never felt that anyone (other than Don) describes all this stuff particularly well.

              I've tried scapular adduction right while I'm on the ball with a few interesting results. Today, however, it will occur as continuation of elbow first inverting up. "Slingshot" is the operative word.
              Last edited by bottle; 10-03-2011, 09:08 AM.

              Comment


              • Re # 812

                As you say, westcoast777, I am studying backhand slice at present. Therefore, my slice is de-chunked, like the pieces of a watch strewn all over the rug.

                No, no, slice isn't that complicated, and yours like mine is working pretty easily and well, as junior versions usually do.



                Not that I'm disparaging them. Far from it. Any volley, obviously, is abbreviated slice, and I once watched somebody cut the biggest cannonball in our club all to pieces simply by volleying it back. Well, he let it bounce. But he used nothing other than his volley strokes to get it back.

                In the video (and thanks so much for showing it), the backswing ranges from very short to medium. Fine. But if you want something bigger, I'd return to the Waltke article three or four times. We're simply talking about adding another shot-- much simpler than replacing one. Even for your "drop-shots"-- and I'm wondering if what you're describing aren't rather "dinks"-- you could take a huge backswing to become a theater person like Novak Djokovic. Drop-shots are total zen-like deception, so however you wind up for your most powerful ground strokes, that's how you should start. You could ham it up so much that your opponent laughs. That would be okay. Laughing sucks an extra two nano-seconds. Suddenly, racket finds the ball and cups it on its back and bottom, along with the hundred other intricacies it's better not to know too much about. The entire shot is guided by one purpose that tells all the little parts what to do., e.g., three feet over the net so ball comes down like a lob on the cord in practice. Lots of theater then! Ham to the max. Burlesque and more! I suppose the ultimate (way beyond my abilities) would be to start doing all the burlesque and then hit the hell out of the ball (but maybe I never had that thought until now and maybe I'll try it).

                I'm curious about the one shot where you come up to the ball with both arms straight. I've seen effective shots like that but wouldn't try them myself. Inhibits motion, I would think, and I want involvement from all my joints.

                As to hitting hard slice and cat-and-mouse floaters, both immensely useful shots, I might try, besides "studying" Waltke's article, i.e., slurping it up, to find the collector's item MASTERING YOUR STROKES with Okker, Ashe, Pasarell, and Solomon. Ashe is great at describing all the different kinds of slice that are possible, and he doesn't make a religion out of saying that one is "better" than the others.

                Does anybody really think that Roger Federer couldn't hit flatter slice if he wanted to?
                Last edited by bottle; 10-03-2011, 06:12 AM.

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                • More on Backhand Slice, Creative Division

                  Nobody can intelligently discuss slice without at least invoking that of Steffi Graf even if they have no chance of understanding it.

                  Who invented this curlecue-laden full catastrophe for her opponents, the German Tennis Federation, Steffi herself, some coach we don't know about, Steffi's mom, her radioactive dad? Our best opportunity for discovery is Julian Assange and Wikileaks.

                  But it's easy to imagine the inventor having been self-sequestered like Bobby Fischer and pushing chess pieces around for 14 hours every day.

                  An idea can come from anywhere, if one is set up for it like Bobby (though on a smaller scale), and mine today comes from Pancho Gonzales' instruction for coming over a high ball to create backhand pace and topspin.

                  He says, in TENNIS BY PANCHO GONZALES, page 47, "6. My backswing is finished, and I am about to hit up on the ball. If I hit downward while standing behind the baseline, my shot would inevitably be too short."

                  Okay, his arm is bent, the racket tip somewhat lowered, his elbow pointed somewhat up.

                  He continues, "7. The hit is finished, and my weight is on my front foot. As always on the backhand drive, the racket head points to the top of my opponent's fence."

                  To think now about all of the hardest hit one handers in tennis, whether flat, topspun or sliced, and whether hit by Donald Budge or Bertha Symantec, there are two sequential sections of forward swing: 1) where racket head comes around level or down or up but the hand, relatively speaking, doesn't and 2) where hand and racket head proceed together.

                  Although some teaching professionals have praised my own one-hander, it never even remotely approached my expectation until this year with the above description making all the difference. Now, I believe, I finally understand what John McEnroe meant when he criticized Gred Rusedski for not keeping his elbow in.

                  The basic form for low or medium height shots can be a simple drop that not only removes slack but rolls arm cocked. Cock and roll in other words (sorry but not very).

                  On a higher shot, whether drive or slice, you cock-roll in different ways. The loop-roll of Graf or Federer or Rosewall hitting slice is a power-producing device which gets the racket tip suddenly yet easily around to make nice slice-ice that will suffice.
                  Last edited by bottle; 10-05-2011, 06:24 AM.

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                  • Note

                    On shots where arm-straightening contributes to forward force, the hand obviously moves a lot though not as much as racket head, if rh does roll some at the same time (but rh may not have to do this).

                    On those driven medium or low ball shots where arm straightens before racket starts forward, the hand then twisting forward can change its orientation in space hardly at all, which is good for hand-to-eye coordination.

                    For purposes of self-education, which is no different from any other kind of education, I'm saying, "Get the level pivot around to work for you on these low and medium height balls. Then, in the other situations where you can't or don't want do this (high ball, slices, chops) simply use arm straightening as a substitute."
                    Last edited by bottle; 10-05-2011, 06:33 AM.

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                    • High One Hand Backhand

                      Note on high backhand described by the way in Post # 818 : If racket tip is pointed down mildly, and with perfect accuracy, which means that elbow is pointed up, but only mildly, this shot can go from most difficult of the topspin backhands to easiest. The racket head, though not rising with uniform circularity, can nevertheless rise on a single upward plane, and natural acceleration can come from lever getting longer.
                      Last edited by bottle; 10-05-2011, 08:30 AM.

                      Comment


                      • More Application of New Idea

                        If high one hand backhand (# 820) is working marvelously well, it occurs to me that I ought to try it on a few medium height balls, too, and I will.

                        The form of this shot is nothing if not interesting (if detachment is possible in tennis discussion).

                        Any loop, minimal, can approximate total amount of roll one anticipates using in the stroke whether during first or second half of the forward structure or both.

                        But to explain this structure more (a good idea? Maybe. I'm not sure), the deliberate, muscular arm straightening gently uppercuts the racket head around.

                        The elbow then changes path once arm is straight. The elbow can rise straight up to a high finish. Upward plane in the whole stroke might change as much as from 30 to 60 degrees, with other variations available, of course.

                        I see an orchestration possible for finding the ball: twisting hand still for one kind of stroke, elbow still for the other.
                        Last edited by bottle; 10-05-2011, 05:03 PM.

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                        • Steffi-Slice

                          Still making like Bobby Fischer in solitude, still following some logical path which revealed itself during unrelated experimentation, bubbled up all by itself, you might say, we re-format our big slice even though we love our small slice, we want them both, we want it all.

                          Two loops like Steffi Graf, I'm thinking, like a dolphin rising and falling as it flows through the ocean's surface, will first wind racket head down then up for a final plunge abetted by clenching shoulder-blades.

                          Sound good? You bet. I'll try it out on the court.















                          Last edited by bottle; 10-07-2011, 07:59 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Hurling the Housing

                            "Housing" refers to the whole scapular conglomeration in the upper quadrant of your back near to and including the shoulder. You can maximize service contribution from this housing by retraction, delay and adduction, i.e., sling-shot the thing.

                            How much delay, though? And exactly when should you release this spring?

                            In experiments, I've played with delay, tending toward shrinkage of it. And today, after different times for the sling-shot, I want it to happen at the precise moment when, in answer to gross body, the elbow naturally inverts and winds the upper arm like an axle. Sling-shot may actually help pre-load upper arm by conflicting with it, in other words.

                            Since adduction goes not only upward but forward, this may predict adjusted stance to make sure racket still flies edge on toward the ball.
                            Last edited by bottle; 10-07-2011, 10:30 AM.

                            Comment


                            • In actual play however a previous construction worked better. That would be a kick serve in which the scapular sling-shot was delayed until contact, which seemed to add a joker if not Djokerish quality to the upward spin.

                              Comment


                              • Hand Still on Backhand, Elbow Still on Forehand

                                If today's experiment isn't positive, I'll say good, one less thing to think about.

                                But I'd like to embed some silence in all of my ground strokes. On a typical backhand by now, my hitting hand gets still. It twists but it's still. The hand is fixed in space, in other words, as the racket tip sweeps round parallel to the court prior to forward and upward lift of both ends of the racket.

                                I wish to take part of this design over to a Ziegenfuss on my right side. A Ziegenfuss is a forehand in which normal body-arm sequence is reversed-- the arm goes first, slowly. This shot has worked well for quite a few years but now I'd like to see if I can improve upon it.

                                Just as hand on straightened arm gets still on the backhand, elbow of bent arm will get still on this forehand, allowing two things to happen with increased purity and completeness: 1) The forearm will sweep around parallel to the court. 2) The wrist will gradually straighten in unison with 1).

                                Then, as delayed body finally springs through and up the back of the ball, the hand or rather right-angled arm will suddenly be in a very strong pushing position, so that an old cue comes to mind: Push open a stuck cellar door. But I'm going to allow the ball to push the hand backward again. The hand-- or wrist-- will be going backward for the second time in the stroke cycle.

                                First wrist retreat was the mondo achieved in response to arm movement. In most big forehands mondo is achieved in response to gross body movement. In this forehand one keeps relaxed wrist straight in top part of a small, elliptical loop as if you want to put your arm around the back of a small child. No attempt is made to point racket tip at rear fence but you can exaggerate the shoulders turn as much as you want.

                                The arm then changes direction, i.e., the elbow moves slightly forward, mondoeing the wrist.

                                Now, for what comes next, keep the elbow still. But I already said that.

                                Face it, we're requesting the tennis god to permit a huge number of events all to occur during the lower or forward part only of a slow, extended loop: Elbow traveling as wrist opens, elbow stopping, forearm sweeping as wrist closes, wrist opening again. Too tall an order? Not if we believe that any little sequence like this-- one move really-- can become a hundred times more assuredly liquid through myelinization over time.

                                In two of my three other full forehands, there may already be some built in silence. "Throw-to-first" is the name of one of them. Elbow is poised in a backward position as if hand just dug ball out of a glove. I don't find this shot effective against huge hitters in tennis but do find it interesting when there is slow pace.

                                In my personal version of a Ferrerfore, the arm doesn't get back as far as David Ferrer initially takes it but rather points at right fence-- the silent part. I want the easy power provided by treating my version as a forehand serve. As body whirls forward, the arm whips backward and forward to more than catch up.

                                In a Federfore, I don't see any silence at all beyond perhaps an initial measuring of the ball. It's a beautiful shot in which one's characteristically straight arm sweeps around at great separation.

                                If beauty frightens, however, one could compare this shot to taking the beltway rather than driving through the middle of the city.
                                Last edited by bottle; 10-12-2011, 07:24 PM.

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