A New Year's Serve

[julian1]

Serbo_Croatian

I feel like Alexandra eliciting from John Yandell how he personally starts his forehand.

What a great discussion. I must thank 10splayer, licensedcoach and tennis_chiro for their participation. The language is full and clear in all three cases, so one can just take the italicized one-sentence essay about to follow as simple-minded joke, except that there may be serious reason for wondering if some other language is better than English for teaching tennis.

tennis_chiro must know that I sometimes get over-enthusiastic about some new idea or previously non-apprehended information. And so I need to say I agree with all of his subjective judgments in his post here. And as far as the objective parts, I think this is the clearest description of desired tennis movement I've ever read-- at least it didn't leave me with unanswered questions as usually happens.

If English is best for recollections of Tintern Abbey, but Spanish and Russian are better for swearing, and THE JOY OF SEX is much better translated into Magyarul, then somebody who wants to play better tennis should teach himself Serbian or Serbo-Croatian, I'm not sure which.

Serbo-Croatian does NOT exist

[10splayer]

I feel like Alexandra eliciting from John Yandell how he personally starts his forehand.

What a great discussion. I must thank 10splayer, licensedcoach and tennis_chiro for their participation. The language is full and clear in all three cases, so one can just take the italicized one-sentence essay about to follow as simple-minded joke, except that there may be serious reason for wondering if some other language is better than English for teaching tennis.

tennis_chiro must know that I sometimes get over-enthusiastic about some new idea or previously non-apprehended information. And so I need to say I agree with all of his subjective judgments in his post here. And as far as the objective parts, I think this is the clearest description of desired tennis movement I've ever read-- at least it didn't leave me with unanswered questions as usually happens.

If English is best for recollections of Tintern Abbey, but Spanish and Russian are better for swearing, and THE JOY OF SEX is much better translated into Magyarul, then somebody who wants to play better tennis should teach himself Serbian or Serbo-Croatian, I'm not sure which.

yeah Don, is an incredible asset on this forum...And would appear to be a true gentleman..hey look Bottle, I envy your enthusiasm, don't ever lose it...it's a great thing.

[don_budge]

Anticipation...Carly Simon and John McEnroe

Great discussion guys...brilliant analysis tennis_chiro.

Serbo-Croatian does NOT exist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67oN0YQVgdo

Anticipation...Carly Simon (In 1971 when I was just a bit too young to understand)

We can never know about the days to come
But we think about them anyway, yay
And I wonder if I'm really with you now
Or just chasin' after some finer day

Anticipation, anticipation
Is makin' me late
Is keepin' me waitin'

And I tell you how easy it feels to be with you
And how right your arms feel around me
But I, I rehearsed those lines just late last night
When I was thinkin' about how right tonight might be

Anticipation, anticipation
Is makin' me late
Is keepin' me waitin'

And tomorrow we might not be together
I'm no prophet and I don't know nature's ways
So I'll try and see into your eyes right now
And stay right here 'cause these are the good old days

(These are the good old days)
And stay right here 'cause these are the good old days
(These are the good old days)
(These are the good old days)
(These are the good old days)
(These are.....the good old days)

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_backhand/mac_backhand.html?MacBHShortCourtLevelRear.mov

I love this video clip of McEnroe's backhand that bottle has been displaying from time to time in his quest to understand the continental gripped backhand of Johnny Boy...and this is what I wrote about it originally.

the choice of views in this series of mcenroe forehands and backhands is really extraordinary for a study such as these. here mcenroe is taking a ball from very nearly the same position of the court that he did in the first of this short series but this time he elects to go hard and low up the line. immediately after hitting his shot he realizes he has his opponent in trouble so he is scampering to the net to seal the deal. once again as always the preparation is just perfect with the feet, shoulders and racquet in perfect alignment and with this preparation and with this grip of a supinated wrist he can hold his intentions to the very last moment and spring on it. this late release of the racquet head gives his opponents all kinds of trouble reading his shots. he is unbelievably clever in his shot selection and he has a bunch to choose from.

But there is another story here in the clip and it is about anticipation and footwork for that matter. McEnroe appears to have hit a forehand judging from his position in the court to his opponent on the other side of the net who looks to be none other than Björn Borg. Borg has returned lamely short and to the McEnroe Continental Gripped Backhand. Johnny takes a skipping step first that is initiated to his right with his left foot coming to the right foot and bumping it to the right where it temporarily is planted and he taps his left big toe to the ground as he momentarily gauges his distance to move forwards then he takes another skipping step but this time it is initiated with his right foot bumping the left (front) foot forwards into striking position. The position of his feet are perfect...front foot 45 degrees and the back 90 degrees give or take some wiggle room. His ability to anticipate gives him the quick drop on his opponent.

On the other side of the court a frozen bear...Björn Borg (björn means bear in Swedish) is planted in the middle of the court unable to get a read on the McEnroe backhand or maybe he was anticipating cross court, it appears that he was...and McEnroe crossed him up by going down the line. The moral of this little story was that McEnroe was able to anticipate the Borg short reply but Borg was unable to anticipate the McEnroe bullet up the line. These little exchanges take place ad infinitum throughout a tennis match. The one who guesses right the most often will most likely be able to create those three lines ala McEnroe thereby taking more balanced swings and producing more efficient use of energy. How important is footwork? How important is anticipation?

On the other side of the net a futile Björn Borg is trapped into crossing over with his right foot to go to his left. Kiss of Death...advantage McEnroe.

One of the most important elements of footwork...is anticipation. Just ask Carly Simon or John McEnroe.

[stotty]

yeah Don, is an incredible asset on this forum...And would appear to be a true gentleman..hey look Bottle, I envy your enthusiasm, don't ever lose it...it's a great thing.

I agree. don is an incredible asset...a gentleman...giving...knowledgeable. As for bottle..."relentless enthusiasm" is probably an understatement...a legend...at least on this forum he is.

[tennis_chiro]

Thanks

I agree. don is an incredible asset...a gentleman...giving...knowledgeable. As for bottle..."relentless enthusiasm" is probably an understatement...a legend...at least on this forum he is.

The kind words are much appreciated. I hope some of you got a chance to look at the link I put up to Borgogno's videos. They are really pretty good.

don

[stotty]

The kind words are much appreciated. I hope some of you got a chance to look at the link I put up to Borgogno's videos. They are really pretty good.

don

The link was buried in your text, so I missed it. Better to separate links clearly from the text so we can't miss them.

I looked at two of the Borgono videos: shadowing with the split step coach, and the Christina McHall video...interesting. I'll look at more of his videos and post tomorrow. You've opened up an interesting topic here.

[stotty]

Murray's split step

Just looked at Borgono's clip of Murray.

Isn't the start of the hop simply Murray moving up the court at the point when his opponent has lost sight of him during the ball toss...sneaking in. The actual split step happens later. The video is not slowed down enough to see the true point at which Murray's split step is really taking place in relation to the server, though after watching it many times, it looks the split step starts to take place at the bottom of the server's racket drop. Without slowing the footage down much slower, it's impossible to know.

The split step in this sense is relational to the opponent, and learnt over time through a player's own experience of playing tennis. If we have to teach this to a student, we are probably teaching someone who is never going to be much of a player.

I stand to be corrected...but firmly believe this to be the case.

[tennis_chiro]

Anticipation...is makin' me late

Great discussion guys...brilliant analysis tennis_chiro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67oN0YQVgdo

Anticipation...Carly Simon (In 1971 when I was just a bit too young to understand)

We can never know about the days to come
But we think about them anyway, yay
And I wonder if I'm really with you now
Or just chasin' after some finer day

Anticipation, anticipation
Is makin' me late
Is keepin' me waitin'

And I tell you how easy it feels to be with you
And how right your arms feel around me
But I, I rehearsed those lines just late last night
When I was thinkin' about how right tonight might be

Anticipation, anticipation
Is makin' me late
Is keepin' me waitin'

And tomorrow we might not be together
I'm no prophet and I don't know nature's ways
So I'll try and see into your eyes right now
And stay right here 'cause these are the good old days

(These are the good old days)
And stay right here 'cause these are the good old days
(These are the good old days)
(These are the good old days)
(These are the good old days)
(These are.....the good old days)

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_backhand/mac_backhand.html?MacBHShortCourtLevelRear.mov

I love this video clip of McEnroe's backhand that bottle has been displaying from time to time in his quest to understand the continental gripped backhand of Johnny Boy...and this is what I wrote about it originally.

the choice of views in this series of mcenroe forehands and backhands is really extraordinary for a study such as these. here mcenroe is taking a ball from very nearly the same position of the court that he did in the first of this short series but this time he elects to go hard and low up the line. immediately after hitting his shot he realizes he has his opponent in trouble so he is scampering to the net to seal the deal. once again as always the preparation is just perfect with the feet, shoulders and racquet in perfect alignment and with this preparation and with this grip of a supinated wrist he can hold his intentions to the very last moment and spring on it. this late release of the racquet head gives his opponents all kinds of trouble reading his shots. he is unbelievably clever in his shot selection and he has a bunch to choose from.

But there is another story here in the clip and it is about anticipation and footwork for that matter. McEnroe appears to have hit a forehand judging from his position in the court to his opponent on the other side of the net who looks to be none other than Björn Borg. Borg has returned lamely short and to the McEnroe Continental Gripped Backhand. Johnny takes a skipping step first that is initiated to his right with his left foot coming to the right foot and bumping it to the right where it temporarily is planted and he taps his left big toe to the ground as he momentarily gauges his distance to move forwards then he takes another skipping step but this time it is initiated with his right foot bumping the left (front) foot forwards into striking position. The position of his feet are perfect...front foot 45 degrees and the back 90 degrees give or take some wiggle room. His ability to anticipate gives him the quick drop on his opponent.

On the other side of the court a frozen bear...Björn Borg (björn means bear in Swedish) is planted in the middle of the court unable to get a read on the McEnroe backhand or maybe he was anticipating cross court, it appears that he was...and McEnroe crossed him up by going down the line. The moral of this little story was that McEnroe was able to anticipate the Borg short reply but Borg was unable to anticipate the McEnroe bullet up the line. These little exchanges take place ad infinitum throughout a tennis match. The one who guesses right the most often will most likely be able to create those three lines ala McEnroe thereby taking more balanced swings and producing more efficient use of energy. How important is footwork? How important is anticipation?

On the other side of the net a futile Björn Borg is trapped into crossing over with his right foot to go to his left. Kiss of Death...advantage McEnroe.

One of the most important elements of footwork...is anticipation. Just ask Carly Simon or John McEnroe.

Thanks, d_b. So good to listen to this song again. 40 years ago I sold my stake in the Tennis Academy in Grand Central Station that I had founded in 1971. In September of 1972 I moved into an apartment a couple of blocks from the station on 44th street with a singer who sounded a little like Carly. So young. Such memories.

But back to tennis... I didn't know which song that phrase came from but I've always said to people, "You know that old lyric, anticipation will make you late". Well, obviously, I had the lyric wrong; but the thought remains. It's so important for people to understand what anticipation is at the highest levels of tennis. It's somewhat less important now because there is so little net play, but here's what I meant by the statement. The best players, who were thought to have great anticipation, didn't really anticipate. They recovered to a position that gave them an equal chance of hitting whatever ball their opponent would play. That refers to two specific aspects of positioning and preparation. As for the position, the player reacting to the opponent's shot wants to be in the middle of his opponent's likely possible shots. This position is different if you are playing Novak Djokovic or your weekend singles game opponent who hasn't gone down the line once in the last two years! So that speaks to the recovery. The second part is how you execute your split step or float step so that you are descending and ready to explode either right or left exactly at the moment your eyes can tell you where your opponent has hit the ball. If, in fact, you have actually anticipated and guessed right or left before your eyes have told you where the ball is going, that anticipatory action will, indeed, make you late should you guess the wrong way. The only time you should be guessing like that is if you really deserve to lose the point because you are out of position and you are trying to steal it back. But when a good player really achieves a perfect recovery and move after his last shot to the middle of his opponent's possible shots, then sets up his body to be a true slave to his eyes at the moment he recognizes where the ball has gone, the subsequent action executed by someone skilled in the movement appears to be an anticipatory movement; actually, it wasn't; it was a reaction to what his eyes told him.

Damn, I think I'm going to have to play the song again. I may have to download some Carly Simon for my iPhone. I can't make the move anymore, but at least I can listen to the song...

don

[tennis_chiro]

Split-step is the wrong name for the move!

Just looked at Borgono's clip of Murray.

Isn't the start of the hop simply Murray moving up the court at the point when his opponent has lost sight of him during the ball toss...sneaking in. The actual split step happens later. The video is not slowed down enough to see the true point at which Murray's split step is really taking place in relation to the server, though after watching it many times, it looks the split step starts to take place at the bottom of the server's racket drop. Without slowing the footage down much slower, it's impossible to know.

The split step in this sense is relational to the opponent, and learnt over time through a player's own experience of playing tennis. If we have to teach this to a student, we are probably teaching someone who is never going to be much of a player.

I stand to be corrected...but firmly believe this to be the case.

Stotty,
I don't know how much you looked at Vic's videos describing the use of his Split Step Coach, but the crux of the device is to get you to take the jump so that you are descending at the moment your eyes tell you where to go (that's the yellow light on his SSC). You are supposed to jump when the line of red lights get to the bottom of the SSC which, indeed, does correspond to the servers racket drop. With Vic's SSC, different configurations of the yellow lights could tell you right, left or body serve coming and the appropriate footwork would be practiced. It's a great concept. I think we all get hung up a little on the terminology. In most people's minds, the split step refers to the landing after player descends from the jump, but the real valuable part happens before that whether the descent comes out of a balanced vertical jump or a side shuffle like McEnroe in the backhand clip Bottle and don_budge are currently enthralled with or an Edberg float forward on a serve and volley move to the net like we rarely see today. The key to an effective "split step" is to be unweighted and able to move with a spring either right or left or even forward or backward as quickly as possible once your eyes tell you where to go. If you actually land with both feet in the classic "split step" pose, you've already blown it.

Now, as for whether or not it can be learned, I'm inclined to agree with you that someone is not going to learn this move from electrical devices. At the same time, I think it can be learned and has to be learned and a device like this could and even should be helpful in that goal. As for learning it in the serve and volley paradigm, I don't see it happening today. I learned the move with hundreds and hundreds of hours (hours, not reps) of doing serve and volley drills for years. Unfortunately, at the end of all that, I had the move, but I was still slow. Edberg learned pretty quickly. I have a feeling Cash did a lot of it early, but one of the greatest athletes we've ever seen on the court (according to the players at his time), Pat Rafter, didn't really master the move until his mid-twenties. Annacone mastered it early because he did my serve and volley drill for hour upon hour as a teenager and then he used it in play in college. I would even argue that Mirnyi never really did master it in singles, not like Llodra.

When we practiced from the time I was about 19 until just a few years ago, my normal practice was to go out, warm-up, hit various ground stroke, volley and overhead drills and unless we were playing sets the practice would always wrap up with a half-hour to an hour of a particular serve and volley drill I developed. It served as a controlled return of serve drill as well, but it usually meant serving and running to the net to make a volley 50 to 100 times every practice. After about 5 years of that, you get pretty decent at feeling the rhythm of the "float step" where you are moving forward in the court, descending, unweighted and ready to break right or left depending on the return. When we practiced serving (at least when I was a young man), we didn't just hit the serve; we practiced to see how far we could get in on that "float step" by the time the ball would be being returned. Can you imagine anyone doing anything like that today? They may learn to react to a groundstroke and break to the next ball, but the art of serve and volley is very nearly dead. If you don't practice the skill a great deal, it will not be there. Just think: you are serving and then throwing yourself forwards as fast as you can go for one step, two at the most and then putting yourself in a float mode where you will put the foot down opposite the side you are breaking to, hopefully getting another stride or two in towards the net if possible but also ready to make just a single lunge to a sharp return with the foot you've just put down to the opposite side. No wonder it took so much work to get proficient.

Even in the doubles game today, the art is dying. I would argue that one of the reasons 35 and over players like Mirnyi, Nestor, Zimonjic, Paes, Bhupathi and even the Bryans have been able to stay atop the world rankings for so long is that they have serve and volley skills that the under 30 members of the top 30 doubles players simply do not have. Sure, they do everything well, but how do you explain their longevity at the top of the game. They don't have better ground strokes or serves in an age when the younger players just tear the cover off the ball. They have great volleys and they have serve and volley skills that get them in a position where they can use those volleys. The younger players, for the most part, simply don't have those skills. And the way they track the ball with the racket head is uncanny. It seems like a direct connection from ball to eyes to racket head. Fabulous.

Anyway, it's really hard to get your body to be a slave to your eyes when it is coming out of that split-step descent, even if you are just standing still on the baseline. Perhaps Borgogno's SSC can help initially to develop the patterns and maybe even lay down a little myelin to help learn the move. But no one is going to truly learn the serve-and-volley split step without hundreds of hours of work out of competition and then in competition; sadly, I don't think anyone will do that today. I think Jerzy Janowicz could pull it off if he put in a couple of hundred hours (that would just get him to the point where the tactic would be viable), but I don't see that happening. He missed a backhand volley, I think for set point, at the end of the first set against Almagro in the Aussie, and then at the end of the second set another one for a break point. Imagine, if he made those two volleys and had been up two sets on Almagro, then faced an injured Tipsarevic and Ferrer in the quarters; what fun that could have been. But I doubt very much he will ever get that kind of practice on his volleys.

Have I gone far enough off topic?

don

[bottle]

A No-Brainer for Someone with Leg Issues?

The prominent double-thrust serves I'm familiar with are Bjorn Borg and Andy Roddick. Borg's is adequate and Roddick's great.

No matter what one thinks of these serves, they exist.

When one watches Roddick, one notices a lot of body rotation, but his knees don't spiral upward, i.e., don't ascend through a combination of screw-like knee/hips turn and thrust.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andyroddick/ar_serve/ar_2nd_serve/ar_2nd_serve.html?AR2ndSAdRear1.mov

Rather, the turn appears to come from higher in the body as the combined effect of throw.

So Roddick's launch is pure double-barreled shotgun or maximum strength rocket blast.

Are two legs better than one? Yes if you're rowing or bench-pressing but not if you're successfully combining lower body pivot with the thrust.

The video of Tony Trabert's serve that Stotty recently found on YouTube doesn't reflect double thrust but does demonstrate no forward hip and knee rotation in its seminal power-production phase. In other words, he's driving up from one leg in a pretty pure, linear way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DkxpHHnjdA

Horizontal turn of the shoulders-- very pronounced-- comes from the gut rather than hips or hips and gut both.

That's why I think that this serve as partial model offers healthful start toward double-thrust for someone who wishes to help his one leg with the other.

Needed: A narrow stance, but the substantial BACKWARD turn of the hips and leading foot of Trabert that Stotty pointed out.

[bottle]

"Less Hips than Thought"

is an operative phrase I'd like to apply today to

.Rosewall slice
.McEnroe backhand drive
.Double leg thrust serve
.But I'd like to apply more hips than thought to a speed-hand-in-golf-imitated modified continental forehand.

In which notch should I discuss these categories? Mild.

Rosewall slice: In every neutral, closed or semi-closed ground stroke there should be a small degree of forward hips turn to consolidate weight on front foot-- a dancer's move. In Rosewall slice it is the weight shift itself that straightens the arm, or perhaps the two phenomena-- weight shift and hips turn-- should never be separate in anybody's mind. In Rosewall slice the arm straightens behind the back. Does arm simultaneously twist to open racket face an extra amount? Often. So that arm twist in the opposite direction can add speed to the racket head. But what if one wants to chop more? Then one should leave strings open or even open them more to compensate for the steeper downward path.

McEnroe backhand drive: Many videoed sequences of John's drive show his hips not turning as his front knee straightens upward. (But don_budge has now given me the idea to study Rod Laver's backhand drive as much as possible to look for that and other equally helpful ideas.)

Double leg thrust serve: In my experience an extreme backward hips turn achieved and maintained or achieved late is the one way a rotorded server can cheat his racket tip low.

Golfy forehand: Once one has started to explore some modified continental forehands as adjunct to one's Federfore, one will discover likely and entirely different variations in which wrist stays straight, opens rhythmically at top of backswing, lays back in response to a hips dominant swing in a most reflexive and golf-like way.

The arm too can straighten in the backswing or during the foreswing in different combinations with the different wrist actions, and all of these variations are VALID!

[bottle]

Dance Lessons in Response to Tennis Injury

From one leg to two to one but the other one.

All in keeping with my internal progressions method of discovering a serve.

Start slightly wall-footed with rear foot slightly to outside but tucked up close.

Backward hips turn now lifts front heel and sends your middle in the two desired directions-- toward net and side fence. Rear leg compresses on flat foot. I'm going to throw from a flat, back foot.

You draw on everything you've learned about down and up and working figure eights.

You throw the racket from rear foot (or did I say that already?).

Have you ever ice-skated? Did you cross-cut? If so, here's a chance to do it again, with no forward hip rotation anywhere in the serve.

There's push but not much from the non-twisting front leg, which seems more to "pry" as rear bein ghosts by.

Hips only square up on the way to net, i.e., on second step.

I haven't tried this yet. Could be awful or great.

Provisional next post:

Have tried this by now. Don't wait for top of leg extension to simultaneously fire gut and bow forward.

I'm 73, and yet these are the best serves I've ever hit.

PHANTASY?

[bottle]

Falling Log Forehands

You are so headstrong, Bottle, that you are about to perish like some character in one of Henrik Ibsen's plays.

I don't care so long as I come up with some interesting variations in my tennis game.

The continental forehand possibilities in Post # 1451 that I claimed all were valid include the falling log method of John McEnroe.

Watch any video of McEnroe's forehand and you see his arm straighten during his backswing, which puts the racket head way back for a long sweep but from a position higher than intended plane:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_forehand/mac_forehand.html?MacFHWideCourtLevelRear1.mov

How then does John or should anybody get the racket to the lower plane?

1) Drop racket right where it is. Dropping racket is rhythmic and builds up speed even for subsequent motion in a different direction as Uncle Vic used to tell us so often. Think of Kurt Flood or Carl Yastrzemski or more recent players who drop hand or hands before they swing forward. Dropping racket where it is will establish good distance from the body so that the racket head will come around in time.

2) Drop or accelerate racket forward of where it is sort of like a slap shot in hockey. Sounds good on the face of it, but when you drop or "crash" in that way your hand and racket will naturally come in toward your body and racket head will open too much and not come around in time unless you simultaneously do something else.

I suggest roll to send racket ahead of hand combined with a loosening of wrist through weakening one's already light grip.

This will allow racket butt to twist out toward net (from impact!) as advocated by Lindsey and Cross for a longer and more cushioned interchange with the ball.

Note: To look for other variations on these themes one doesn't have to go far. The McEnroe and Laver backhands are similar. The Laver forehand however like Stotty's uses more of a loop.

An interesting feature of this to me is that the Laver forehand backswing starts out in an underhanded way exactly like the McEnroe but turns then into his loop. An old guy could master both. He could almost look like a straight back player but then after a series of ordinary forehands add the bolo for good theater. Everybody in my view should resemble the old Cuban boxer Kid Gavilan, who would just be boxing away when suddenly he unleashed his famous bolo punch. It never hurt his opponent unless it scared him to death. Of course, the added bolo might do more in tennis. I don't know but intend to find out.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/rodlaver/rodlaver_sa.html?RLFHCourtLevelFront.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/rodlaver/rodlaver_sa.html?RLFHShortCourtLevelFront.mov

[stotty]

You are so headstrong, Bottle, that you are about to perish like some character in one of Henrik Ibsen's plays.

I don't care so long as I come up with some interesting variations in my tennis game.

The continental forehand possibilities in Post # 1451 that I claimed all were valid include the falling log method of John McEnroe.

Watch any video of McEnroe's forehand and you see his arm straighten during his backswing, which puts the racket head way back for a long sweep but from a position higher than intended plane:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_forehand/mac_forehand.html?MacFHWideCourtLevelRear1.mov

How then does John or should anybody get the racket to the lower plane?

1) Drop racket right where it is. Dropping racket is rhythmic and builds up speed even for subsequent motion in a different direction as Uncle Vic used to tell us so often. Think of Kurt Flood or Carl Yastrzemski or more recent players who drop hand or hands before they swing forward. Dropping racket where it is will establish good distance from the body so that the racket head will come around in time.

2) Drop or accelerate racket forward of where it is sort of like a slap shot in hockey. Sounds good on the face of it, but when you drop or "crash" in that way your hand and racket will naturally come in toward your body and racket head will open too much and not come around in time unless you simultaneously do something else.

I suggest roll to send racket ahead of hand combined with a loosening of wrist through weakening one's already light grip.

This will allow racket butt to twist out toward net (from impact!) as advocated by Lindsey and Cross for a longer and more cushioned interchange with the ball.

Note: To look for other variations on these themes one doesn't have to go far. The McEnroe and Laver backhands are similar. The Laver forehand however like Stotty's uses more of a loop.

An interesting feature of this to me is that the Laver forehand backswing starts out in an underhanded way exactly like the McEnroe but turns then into his loop. An old guy could master both. He could almost look like a straight back player but then after a series of ordinary forehands add the bolo for good theater. Everybody in my view should resemble the old Cuban boxer Kid Gavilan, who would just be boxing away when suddenly he unleashed his famous bolo punch. It never hurt his opponent unless it scared him to death. Of course, the added bolo might do more in tennis. I don't know but intend to find out.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/rodlaver/rodlaver_sa.html?RLFHCourtLevelFront.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelFront.mov

Amazing...I've watched Laver in the archive and on Youtube so many times yet this is the first time I've noticed his forehand is straight-armed on contact. Sometimes I'm as blind as a bat! No wonder I'm such a bad coach...sometimes I think I should be stacking shelves in a supermarket instead.

[bottle]

A good coach like you is apt to see something old for him in a new way.