A New Year's Serve

[don_budge]

Flop...

A fuller flip, in theory, would make timing more difficult, and make the shot more risky. The trade off, one would think, would be greater power. The flip is the very last event in the chain before contact with the ball...the last build up of energy to be unleashed.

A more minimal flip would equal less risk and more reliable timing, but perhaps less power. In the article, Karsten is attributed as being a rock solid player who makes few errors. I wonder how powerful he his compared to fuller flippers?

A fuller flip would be a flop...the kiss of death to stability and repeatability under any kind of pressure on the forehand side for mere mortals and the average tennis student. Laying the wrist back in the early part of the backswing a bit more has some nice benefits though...encouraging the hinge to allow the door to slam. I don't like the term "flip"...it's too flippant. Too haphazard.

The dictionary describes flip as "turn over or cause to turn over with a sudden sharp movement" which is I hope not the case. The role of the wrist is a deliberate and measured response to the weight of the racquet head as related to the movement of the body.

The more that we see the rest of Karsten's game the more we will understand the reasons for the mechanics of his forehand...I think. I suspect that his backhand and volley technique somehow mirror his forehand technique.

[bottle]

Shake It Up!

I am now ready to extend my runway downward, sideward, upward, crossward and downward before my arm even needles and circles to align racket with right edge of body preparatory to zinging up to the ball and departing from it crossward to outside and returning downward and crossward to my left side.

I am further now ready to delay toss until the upward arc of the "upward, crossward and downward" section of this airplane pathway past cargo trucks in Chicago, Atlanta or Amsterdam. I'm going to do that and still say I have a down-together, up-together serve.

How? Easy. By, while tall body sways forward, letting toss arm drop naturally and pause as hitting hand steadily runs through its newly lengthened path down and then up to right as single motion during this phase.

And I'll call the whole service racket tract my runway instead of the brief path from racket-aligned-with-right-edge to ball.

Hope, my hope is for something no one will ever see in a big airport. (Hope is my partner.) That is even acceleration at least to right edge alignment, followed by uneven acceleration past the ball and easy deceleration after that. Am I that good? If not, I'll try something else.

One strange feature of this schema: Flying straight arm so far out to right that bending it will return racket on a collision course with one's head. Twisting upper arm within its rotor socket will counter this tendency and increase the underestimated though effective leverage of hand measurement to back of head.

A threshing heels serve in my view emphasizes forward hips turn while minimizing shoulders rotation from the gut. (Translation as you touch your leading shoulder: "Stay closed here.") The threshing heels themselves play arm against the body. The hips rotate forward as a single movement broken but intellectually only into two parts: 1) internal and 2) rear leg driven.

If you were lucky enough as I was at outset to have good teaching pro instruction in this non-fly service mode, you probably recall crossing an imaginary bridge with your body, with leg then coming round to catch up and receive your weight.

At some point, however, Jim Kacian, USPTA, alluded to my right leg and said, "Go. Go with it!"

I'm now more than ready to use both legs to increase the power, speed and effectiveness of my secondary hips turn.

If one has done the full threshing of heels, left leg again goes from flat to up on toes this time to allow an extending pivot without which you may destroy your leg. Yes, you will destroy your leg if you pit the full force of your hips against a flat, locked foot.

Rear leg can nevertheless be a prime driver. Get good purchase with your rear tennis shoe and use your quad! Assumption: Late body bend or archer's bow and a toss a two full feet in front of the baseline.

Big questions: Will I actually change my serve to fit the above description or simply try to learn from it? Would I teach this stuff to an innocent child or a decrepit bearded senior? Am I really prepared to fiddle with my toss in such a major way as another birthday rolls around?

I certainly plan to run the experiment on this day after election day. The result may be declined service performance in early morning seniors doubles tomorrow, but this is the normal price for significant departure in tennis technique, I would have to say.

[bottle]

Stick to Your Own Kind

Went to court, where the final judgment was: "Don't mess with your toss. Think of billiards. Are you dead stick? No, there was no pause between your drawback and your stroke whatsoever on the day in the Winston-Salem bars when you upset that baldy bouncer guy. So put no pause at bottom of your downswing for your toss, either.

"But preserve the tweak where you drop the racket at 80 instead of 90 degrees and a longer service tract in general.

"Just make up for the extra tract with extra speed of motion. That way you can follow all the ideas of Post # 1367 without destroying any basics and should do no worse than expected in geezer doubles tomorrow at dawn."

[bottle]

The Bubble Returns

To save time (birthday rolling around), I've got to perform mastectomies on both my forehand and my serve today.

On forehand, I am taken with the inverted boot image that now exists in forum parlance.

On serve, it is "needled elbow" that obsesses me. As recently as yesterday, speaking on Tennis Channel, Jimmy Arias opined that Argentines in general have trouble with their serves, and that Juan Del Potro, big as he is, would have a still much better serve if he had only learned to needle his elbow when he was a kid.

"Needle the elbow" is of course my own language with faint connection to the Biblical bookie's admonition that a rich man has as good a chance of making it to heaven as a camel does of passing through the eye of a needle.

The language that Arias uses is different but his partiality toward both halves of arm pressing together is the same as Ivan Lendl's and mine.

Before I go any further, I should postulate that Jimmy Arias and I have had a shaky virtual relationship ever since he infuriated me with his statement a couple years ago that nobody with a rating of 4.5 or less should use windshield wipers.

It's raining outside, I thought, and all the 4.5's are crashing into trees.

Now, two years later, I've calmed down and almost agree. The Scott Murphy article "The Classical Forehand: A Living Model" did most to bring me around. I wish only to add to my forehand arsenal, however, not replace it. And have no intention ever in this lifetime of relinquishing my Federfore so long that I'm sure that-- Eureka!-- it continues to evolve.

And so, today, I re-introduced the "bubble" I took out. That "bubble" refers to the little sideways move of the elbow I noticed in rear view videos of Rog. That little move is how he closes the racket an extra amount, I asserted, and I still think so, but oh, dumbo me.

The elbow doesn't just move toward the right fence. No, it's freewheeling and continues to circle around toward rear fence. I was wrong ever to think that Roger's backswing was an example of solid arm-and-bod construction.

On the contrary, just as there is a section of Federfore foreswing if not foreskin in which arm moves faster than body, there is a longer section of backswing in which the same can be said and I say it.

To review, Roger pivots his racket along with his body. Analysis: solid arm-and-bod connect.

He might bound toward ball a while that way-- more often not-- but sooner or later the shoulders will continue to slowly turn as a function of Roger's pointing at right fence.

This is so different from Del Potro or Popp. Somebody must, not verbally or in a forum post or private email but cosmologically and internally deep in silent thought concede me this point. Del Potro and Popp point at the right fence but not to turn their shoulders.

What's the desire here? Shoulders that rotate in unit turn. Shoulders that continue to rotate from left arm pointing at side fence, while arm, bent, describes the shape of an inverted L.L. Bean calf-high hunting boot: i.e., the elbow gently rises up that glutinous sole, and then, as the shoulders rest, extends backward/downward with all arm motion still in the slot. Keeping the arm motion continuous is important. But during pointing of the left hand the right hand goes back faster than the shoulders.

On serve, I wrote myself a note: "Look, do whatever you have to in order to needle the arm early."

So, gravity drop of right arm may be the best combination of downward and sideways vector-- whatever coils arm immediately for a throw that feels dramatic beyond belief-- the top of a pitcher's windup.

Rotation of upper arm, now "purified" as it were, becomes a non-complicated event of timed sequence.

[bottle]

Two for Two, the Court Reporter Says

Forehand and Serve. Remember, he told you when there weren't improvements.

[bottle]

Match Play Report

The court judge, after accompanying me to the indoor Friday night tennis social, announced that he had reversed his earlier opinion: Forehand improvement, yes, but no improvement in serve, in fact some deterioration.

To me, this was great though remediable disappointment, and I decided immediately to make my serve crazier, more uninhibited, less self-conscious but most of all absent of any concern over amount of arm bend at reverse of gross bod.

This seemed appropriate to a tennis venue on the exact border between the lean streets of Detroit with darkened houses abandoned or blackened by flame and the gross bods of Grosse Pointe, Michigan.

This decision retained openness to my heretical opinion that right-angled arm in "trophy position" is mere convention with no causative connection to excellence, a purely arbitrary constant no better or worse than any other to give the universal chaos of the most complicated stroke in tennis some shape.

[bottle]

The Swami Speaks

O tell me, swami, what do you see?

Swami: I see, my son, Federer's shoulders turn as he run. I don't see him hold partially turned shoulders at a single setting the way some players do. No, it's all gradual and smooth. However far away the ball he'll be slightly turning the whole way.

Me: O thanks, swami. I think I became temporarily confused on that point.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear1_250fps.mp4

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear2_250fps.mp4

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear3_250fps.mp4

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear4_500fps.mp4

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear5_250fps.mp4

Note: Feel free to disagree. First, body and racket turn as a unit. Then independent arm swing starts with both hands on racket: The path is up and around. Then down and around as hitting hand alone holds the racket. Then arm straightening as body pauses before its change of direction. In four of these five videos left arm pointing is integral to shoulders turning. In one of them shoulders may be still while left arm points-- or not. It's close.

[don_budge]

yes...and yes again!

O tell me, swami, what do you see?

Swami: I see, my son, Federer's shoulders turn as he run. I don't see him hold partially turned shoulders at a single setting the way some players do. No, it's all gradual and smooth. However far away the ball he'll be slightly turning the whole way.

Me: O thanks, swami. I think I became temporarily confused on that point.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear1_250fps.mp4

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear2_250fps.mp4

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear3_250fps.mp4

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear4_500fps.mp4

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Wide&stroke=RFFHWideOpenStanceRear5_250fps.mp4

Note: Feel free to disagree. First, body and racket turn as a unit. Then independent arm swing starts with both hands on racket: The path is up and around. Then down and around as hitting hand alone holds the racket. Then arm straightening as body pauses before its change of direction. In four of these five videos left arm pointing is integral to shoulders turning. In one of them shoulders may be still while left arm points-- or not. It's close.

Yes, yes....and yes again. Why disagree...when you are absolutely right? The backswing...especially on the forehand and service motion is utterly important. Your observation about the shoulders turning cannot be over emphasized...to beginners or cagey veterans. The backswing for the forehand and the serve is so dependent upon the shoulders turning and rather independent of arm motion that it is the fundamental concept about swinging something...be it a tennis racquet, golf club, baseball bat or even an ax as one student of mine suggested.

Of course there is independent arm motion...but it is subtle and entirely in synch with the shoulders...which are entirely in synch with the hips...which are entirely in synch with the legs...which are entirely in synch with the placement of the feet. In golf they say...never let your arms get ahead of your shoulders. One might say the same thing in tennis, or baseball, or wielding an ax.

Even on the run Roger Federer effortlessly morphs from his ready position into the backswing before he effortlessly morphs into his forward motion...it all adds up to a wonderfully blended swing with impeccable balance producing splendid swings from less than perfect position. His ability to synchronize his whole body into his swing on the forehand side is unparalleled. Others do a great job in their renditions and interpretations, but there is something just a bit more sublime about the way the Swiss Maestro executes.

Pardon me for interrupting...I couldn't resist.

[bottle]

Thanks so much for the reinforcement on top of the reinforcement I just got when I went to the court. When I saw that things were going well and even better than when things have gone well in the past, I started to work on orchestration. For a flat forehand I'm now taking wrist back a little at a time, prefer to hit from neutral stance and catch the racket somewhat like I used to only with longer arm, a real sweep as Senator Laxalt advised. The old double bend was interesting, and if one uses no loop at all, just sets the double bend straight back, and then lets gate post of the upper arm creak forward along with other elements and then smoothly lifts the elbow (having delayed it) one can obtain an exceptionally clean hit.

But when I add any kind of loop the clean hit goes away. And after so many years of fooling around with Federfores, I definitely hit forehands of any stripe better with a long though relaxed arm. And as I go down my list of desperate forehand service returns, it's fun to try a flip of the wrist followed by a step across with no other backward bottily turn! Yes, an ugly flip and early! Maybe that one is double bend. Never to be used any time else, except maybe for an impossibly distant ball.

I'm still using a flippant Gordonian flip in Federfores however just before contact. Thanks again.

Oh yeah. For a while I wanted to orchestrate flat and Federfore off the same backswing but have decided that such subtle deception probably isn't worth the effort in geezer tennis unless one stumbles on some exceptionally easy solution one day.

[bottle]

Secrets of the Drop-Volley in Geezer Tennis

One geezer in our group likes to be a teezer when he contemplates my writing of tennis books.

If I hit a good drop-volley, he says, "Read his book and he'll tell you how to hit that shot."

I guess he's referring to my first tennis book, A NEW YEAR'S SERVE, and not the present one about to go up in the Kindle Store this month, INTERNAL SLINGSHOT: THE KEY TO MODERN TENNIS.

But if anyone really wants to know how to hit a drop-volley, here is the essential information: 1) miss-hit or 2) drop the ball right in front of you without thinking about technique.

[bottle]

A Question for Tennis_Chiro

"Personally, I always question the flip at the beginning of Fed's forehand." -- Don Brosseau.

Wow! Well, since spreading out layback of wrist early, during the backswing, has improved my flat forehand, perhaps the same change would improve my most vigorously topspun forehand as well.

Any suggestion, Don, for how to do it? One idea I see is what I just said, a gradual laying back of wrist during the backswing. Should one crank down with forearm at the same time? Or save that for later? Or one could have wrist already laid back in waiting/neutral position favoring the forehand? Or anything else?

I understand that in a lot of discussions like this, theory isn't appropriate since the person is better off doing what he or she most frequently has done.

But I'm not partial to that. At my age and mobility, I don't mind screwing up my game a little to discover the absolutely most reasonable, best designs possible-- so long as my doubles partner doesn't catch on to this.

[tennis_chiro]

Like the idea of making it gradual

"Personally, I always question the flip at the beginning of Fed's forehand." -- Don Brosseau.

Wow! Well, since spreading out layback of wrist early, during the backswing, has improved my flat forehand, perhaps the same change would improve my most vigorously topspun forehand as well.

Any suggestion, Don, for how to do it? One idea I see is what I just said, a gradual laying back of wrist during the backswing. Should one crank down with forearm at the same time? Or save that for later? Or one could have wrist already laid back in waiting/neutral position favoring the forehand? Or anything else?

I understand that in a lot of discussions like this, theory isn't appropriate since the person is better off doing what he or she most frequently has done.

But I'm not partial to that. At my age and mobility, I don't mind screwing up my game a little to discover the absolutely most reasonable, best designs possible-- so long as my doubles partner doesn't catch on to this.

Since we've had the knowledge Brian Gordon supplied in his two articles on the forehand and particularly the stretch-shortening cycle/reflex, I've tried to get my students to incorporate these principles into their stroke as much as possible, especially those that have hopes for competing at a higher or even elite level. While understanding that the action of stretching the muscles of the forearm (and actually the whole hitting structure up to the shoulder and even to some degree back to the core) gives you more power as you swing forward, you have to control that power and keep the wrist as a "somewhat" passive hinge that is primarily concerned with keeping the ball on the strings as long as possible and controlling the direction of the shot. This means you do not snap the wrist forward even though the SSC has stored more power for you to do exactly that. Perhaps that power enables you to maintain the position of the racket and its face through impact rather than collapsing under the force of the collision. If you snap the wrist and flex it forward through the impact zone, you pull the racket off the ball somewhat quicker (what does that mean ...3.5 milliseconds instead of 4; I don't know, but it feels shorter and looks shorter and less solid and feels less solid). Certainly the SSC, even in a dry stroke, offers a feeling of more power in the stroke.

It seems to me that Federer's SSC is a little too violent even for him, thus the many ufe's off his forehand side that frustrate so many of us pulling for him. I think this is what you refer to as the "Mondo", or is that the whole forward swing. Our friend Phil in Lugano demonstrated a similar wiggle when he was putting up videos here. (Miss his input.)

In any case, I think a simpler stroke like Popp's that gets through all the critical checkpoints along the way with the least detours and violent wiggles is by far the best way for you to go. And for my students as well. I think that kind of simplicity is why Djokovic is so solid; certainly there is much more than that, but structurally his strokes are very simple within the modern paradigm; they look way too complicated to ever succeed in the paradigm of the 60's!

don

[bottle]

EXTREMELY HELPFUL. Thanks so much.

[julian1]

Your home country mentioned

See

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?p=19365&posted=1#post19365

post #70

[julian1]

Flip and side spin and atp forehand 3

Since we've had the knowledge Brian Gordon supplied in his two articles on the forehand and particularly the stretch-shortening cycle/reflex, I've tried to get my students to incorporate these principles into their stroke as much as possible, especially those that have hopes for competing at a higher or even elite level. While understanding that the action of stretching the muscles of the forearm (and actually the whole hitting structure up to the shoulder and even to some degree back to the core) gives you more power as you swing forward, you have to control that power and keep the wrist as a "somewhat" passive hinge that is primarily concerned with keeping the ball on the strings as long as possible and controlling the direction of the shot. This means you do not snap the wrist forward even though the SSC has stored more power for you to do exactly that. Perhaps that power enables you to maintain the position of the racket and its face through impact rather than collapsing under the force of the collision. If you snap the wrist and flex it forward through the impact zone, you pull the racket off the ball somewhat quicker (what does that mean ...3.5 milliseconds instead of 4; I don't know, but it feels shorter and looks shorter and less solid and feels less solid). Certainly the SSC, even in a dry stroke, offers a feeling of more power in the stroke.

It seems to me that Federer's SSC is a little too violent even for him, thus the many ufe's off his forehand side that frustrate so many of us pulling for him. I think this is what you refer to as the "Mondo", or is that the whole forward swing. Our friend Phil in Lugano demonstrated a similar wiggle when he was putting up videos here. (Miss his input.)

In any case, I think a simpler stroke like Popp's that gets through all the critical checkpoints along the way with the least detours and violent wiggles is by far the best way for you to go. And for my students as well. I think that kind of simplicity is why Djokovic is so solid; certainly there is much more than that, but structurally his strokes are very simple within the modern paradigm; they look way too complicated to ever succeed in the paradigm of the 60's!

don

Don,
how do you put a SIDE spin into atp forehand 3?
Thank you