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A New Year's Serve

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  • bottle
    replied
    Rehearsal

    I looked up "brandishment." It is a perfectly good word with a meaning different from "blandishment," having to do with waving a sword. It becomes the second frame in my four-frame study of the Pancho Segura serve.

    Why Segura? And why bother to learn different forms of serve in the first place?

    Segura because he was little. If a serve works well for a little guy it should work even better for a big guy. (I am a moderately big guy-- big enough so that I should have a better serve than the one I currently have.)

    And one learns different forms of serve in the hope-- at any age-- that one of them will work better than the others.

    The second move can be quick, the brandishment thus preparing one for the quickness of abduction/adduction although there is a slow smooth section interspersed first...

    And now to lay out the first four parts or beginning sequence to the Segura-modeled serve as drawn in the 12 frames of PANCHO SEGURA'S CHAMPIONSHIP STRATEGY: HOW TO PLAY WINNING TENNIS by Pancho Segura/with Gladys Heldman.

    A natural question: "Why not address all 12 frames at once?" Because that is too big a challenge. Better to concentrate on the first third of the serve and rely on inspiration for the rest, at least for now.

    Rehearsal 1234:

    1) Racket goes down as ta goes up

    2) Shoulder continues up as ha goes back fast far away from bod but with arm bent (the brandishment). Knees started bent but they bend more.

    3) Shoulder continues up as ha bends to place racket lid close over your head as knees bend and press even more as the ball starts down

    4) Legs fire up past racket on its way down to LP.

    Again: Rehearse.

    Three things happen before the legs fire:

    1) Toss
    2) Separate
    3) Bend.

    Toss, separate, bend = MANTRA.

    Rehearse:

    1) Slow
    2) Fast
    3) Bend
    4) Fire.

    MANTRA: slowfastbendfire.

    A full service motion means full separation. But this does not happen until frame two (brandishment).

    Rehearse. Stay on the back foot until the ball starts to drop at which time so does ta.

    A final question: Why not just stick with your regular serve and believe in it? Won't this lead to the best perfection you can achieve?

    Of course not. Get real.

    (https://wyntonmarsalis.org/videos/vi...play-the-blues)
    Last edited by bottle; 01-24-2019, 04:27 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Bottle Goes Negative, oh Yes he Does

    Sorry to deliver a judgment here that will make me unpopular with certain folks if I wasn't already.

    The judgment is about Jeff Saltzenstein. He embarrasses me through tooting his own horn too much.

    Also, I'm still waiting for someone to reconcile the turning inward of racket face at the end of his dirty diaper drill with the turning out of racket face in other models for the modern serve.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Originally posted by doctorhl View Post

    For me, loosening the bottom 3 fingers ever so slightly allows one to manipulate the hand for a little more topspin and tightening bottom three fingers changes racket face slightly for crosscourt(same principle as squeezing bottom 3 fingers of the upper hand on the golf driver to close club face a little quicker).With some drop volleys I like to slightly loosen all of the fingers to dampen the ball, especially when receiving a hard hit ball. On cut drop volleys, I like to tighten the grip to hit extreme underspin.( shots especially effective on Senior clay tournaments).I think there is something to be said for finding the optimal hand/finger pressure as pronation/wrist flexion occurs at contact in the serve. I have observed some kids with death grips on their racket, which had a tendency to translate into unproductive tension in the rest of their arm on certain strokes.
    This is terrific. Thanks so much.

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  • doctorhl
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post

    I don't think Dennis Ralston intellectualized it as much as I would, just expressed the idea, but did mention firming up the bottom three fingers. So hit one down the line with fingers more relaxed? Tighten for a crosscourt? But then, just trying to follow the idea, I think I decided I wanted some fingers closing on almost all power volleys, combined with opening of the racket face, which comes from what? Forearm? But then, it just seemed to me, thinking this way with the fingers so much led naturally to loosening them some for stop volleys or just to take speed off the ball. I'd be perfectly happy with the notion that one shouldn't know too exactly what one is doing, at least to have a good day which just has to happen maybe when one isn't expecting it. But my wonkish mind also wanted to know what exactly it all meant. I revert here to my advice about using a bangboard with little dinks on one bounce and playing around with it. That's the application of the original idea that works best at least for me.
    For me, loosening the bottom 3 fingers ever so slightly allows one to manipulate the hand for a little more topspin and tightening bottom three fingers changes racket face slightly for crosscourt(same principle as squeezing bottom 3 fingers of the upper hand on the golf driver to close club face a little quicker).With some drop volleys I like to slightly loosen all of the fingers to dampen the ball, especially when receiving a hard hit ball. On cut drop volleys, I like to tighten the grip to hit extreme underspin.( shots especially effective on Senior clay tournaments).I think there is something to be said for finding the optimal hand/finger pressure as pronation/wrist flexion occurs at contact in the serve. I have observed some kids with death grips on their racket, which had a tendency to translate into unproductive tension in the rest of their arm on certain strokes.

    Leave a comment:


  • stotty
    replied
    I'm sure Brent and me can sort most things out so have not fear.

    I contacted tennis_chiro around a month or two ago to check all was well. He got back to me briefly by email before rushing out the door to give a tennis lesson. I haven't heard from him since but no doubt he will crop up out of the blue as he always does. I hope so. I love his strong, independent views on tennis.

    Leave a comment:


  • bottle
    replied
    No, no, you know exactly what you are talking about. And it all sounds like a kind of awakening. Teaching has got to be about interaction. But I never would completely abandon your own cues since cues engender other cues, in students too. When I was doing an article on rowing one time after having been a cue coach, I mean a crew coach, I went to a lot of different colleges and clubs just interviewing people about the cues they themselves had come up with or stolen and which were most effective. I made a list.

    I'm trying to engineer an awakening of my own right now on the subject of elbow level in serving. Brent Abel, the current over 70's hardcourt champion in this country recently told his considerable online readership that he had a little time right now and if someone wanted some free advice to contact him because he will be busier later. He does longterm lessons and phone and video analysis and of course it is for a fee so I decided to jump at the generous offer. The first thing he asked for was a video of me serving without a ball and then about three actual serves, no more. Well, I'm presently cut off from a lot of computer-literate friends and kids, and with my android phone was unable to send my HUDL technique selfie photos, was doing emails with the HUDL technicians, who finally seemed to agree that if "Technique" had transformed me into a lefty I would probably have to remain a lefty forever since my Moto android wouldn't come up with the screen to allow me to shift back and forth the way an I-phone would.

    Under the pressure of Brent's invitation, I started exploring the natural video capacity that came with the phone-- oh, rather good slow motion. Then Brent sent me a video with him talking to me from his living room in California. It just seemed so quick and easy, as fast as an email so I tried sending myself one of my own videos and succeeded for the first time despite previous tries. People assume that everybody knows everything about computers but it's wrong. Sometimes older persons like myself just need to be told "Click there and when you get the arrow then click there..." The solution could be that simple. But I did finally figure it out on my own, and I know that in certain areas my computer knowledge is better than that of other persons. I think of everybody with their own thicket of computer knowledge. How to send a video simply wasn't part of my thicket but now is.

    So Brent and I have begun to discuss my serve. He thinks players in general are overly shy about seeking out expertise and relates this to fields other than tennis and thinks the reluctance disastrous. I must admit I'm finding the conversation invaluable.

    So, there is six inches of snow on the court where I record and it's 6 degrees Farenheit and I went cross-country skiiing today twice-- the first time I've been able to do that this winter. But when I get the chance I will record and send you a video, because my serve is not up to the rest of my game and never has been. But I'm playing indoors all the time with what seems to me like neat competition, and so am in good position to notice any improvement or deterioration in my serve. In fact I'm a romantic and think that if I can ever straighten out my service motion just a little I will make out like a bandit. True or false? Don't tell me, I don't want to know.

    I need some more thought from other persons on my serve. That's why I'll send you the video. The simplest observation might be the most valuable. I'm not interested in the public humiliation that would occur if I put my serve up on You Tube or in the your serves section here which I was once or twice invited to do. It is an old discussion. Actually, some people at TennisPlayer might be quite kind, but the feeling of humiliation would come from me. That is what I feel when I look at my own serve in film right now, and I wouldn't want to multiply the feeling through exposure to a wider audience.

    So it's Brent and you if you don't mind. Thanks. Oh, but I'd better send one to TennisChiro, too. Where has he been?

    Oh, by the way, the lousiness of my serve is the reason for the existence of this thread, which has gone on for years and years by now.
    Last edited by bottle; 01-20-2019, 09:32 PM.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Interesting.

    I am on an extensive coaching course at the moment that covers all aspects of coaching. On the business of coaching cues, the suggestion is that students should be encouraged, when learning something new, to find their own cues, which will usually be more accurate and better than the coach. Cues are considered important, but what might seem a great cue to the coach might be close to meaningless to the student. Hence students should be encouraged to find their own cues, using the coach's crude one's as a starting point. Kind of like charades.

    I found that interesting as I had never even considered it before. I have often thought my cues were great and couldn't understand for the life of me why some fool couldn't get them. Turns out the fool was me.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Originally posted by stotty View Post
    Yes but how does finger pressure direct the ball exactly?
    I don't think Dennis Ralston intellectualized it as much as I would, just expressed the idea, but did mention firming up the bottom three fingers. So hit one down the line with fingers more relaxed? Tighten for a crosscourt? But then, just trying to follow the idea, I think I decided I wanted some fingers closing on almost all power volleys, combined with opening of the racket face, which comes from what? Forearm? But then, it just seemed to me, thinking this way with the fingers so much led naturally to loosening them some for stop volleys or just to take speed off the ball. I'd be perfectly happy with the notion that one shouldn't know too exactly what one is doing, at least to have a good day which just has to happen maybe when one isn't expecting it. But my wonkish mind also wanted to know what exactly it all meant. I revert here to my advice about using a bangboard with little dinks on one bounce and playing around with it. That's the application of the original idea that works best at least for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • stotty
    replied
    Yes but how does finger pressure direct the ball exactly?

    Leave a comment:


  • bottle
    replied
    Cool. Thank you. I requested the free sensor sample.

    Leave a comment:


  • doctorhl
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    Touch Volleys

    I might have received some good instruction-- somehow-- on volleying along the way. But I don't think it contained enough emphasis on variations in finger pressure. If you don't think about finger pressure enough to make it a conscious thing it may never become an unconscious thing, which you ought to want.

    I was reading Dennis Ralston on the subject of volleying in one of his books, and found what he was saying unprecedented in my experience yet thoroughly simple. He said to alter direction from the same volley with finger pressure.

    Well, if one doesn't do that, if one always determines one's volley direction in one of the many different possible ways, one may never put oneself on the path to learning all the gradations that are there for anyone to draw on in their fingers.

    Nothing has helped my volleys more than Ralston's simple idea. When my volleys start to get stale now I get myself to a bangboard and don't even try to hit volleys off of it without ever letting the ball hit the ground as if I were Pancho Segura.

    I'm not. I'm a 79-year-old hacker who can have a great day starting with touch volleys.

    So, as I was saying (and admittedly have said before), to spark up one's volleys just try hitting balls gently off one bounce against a bangboard, altering direction and speed of the shot through finger pressure alone.
    I can totally relate to finger pressure. I learned it’s importance for directional control and touch when playing tournament badminton. There was some transfer to tennis. As sort of a lab rat, I wanted to order some digital pressure film and try to get pressure readings from different players, but never followed through. https://www.sensorprod.com/index.php

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  • bottle
    replied
    10,000 Hours, 10,000 Repetitions (Reprise)

    https://www.masterclass.com/classes/...RoCbPIQAvD_BwE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRU20TeaLKI


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8oz-Jf147E
    Last edited by bottle; 01-19-2019, 07:23 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Touch Volleys

    I might have received some good instruction-- somehow-- on volleying along the way. But I don't think it contained enough emphasis on variations in finger pressure. If you don't think about finger pressure enough to make it a conscious thing it may never become an unconscious thing, which you ought to want.

    I was reading Dennis Ralston on the subject of volleying in one of his books, and found what he was saying unprecedented in my experience yet thoroughly simple. He said to alter direction from the same volley with finger pressure.

    Well, if one doesn't do that, if one always determines one's volley direction in one of the many different possible ways, one may never put oneself on the path to learning all the gradations that are there for anyone to draw on in their fingers.

    Nothing has helped my volleys more than Ralston's simple idea. When my volleys start to get stale now I get myself to a bangboard and don't even try to hit volleys off of it without ever letting the ball hit the ground as if I were Pancho Segura.

    I'm not. I'm a 79-year-old hacker who can have a great day starting with touch volleys.

    So, as I was saying (and admittedly have said before), to spark up one's volleys just try hitting balls gently off one bounce against a bangboard, altering direction and speed of the shot through finger pressure alone.
    Last edited by bottle; 01-17-2019, 03:34 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Does the Brightly Colored Barrel Actually get Parallel to the Court?

    I don't think so. Brian's most fantastic of all animations is to me idealism and the expression of principle, exaggerated to make a point. One can't be too literal the way that literary people are when they try to think in tennis. The real happening is that the upper body becomes the closest thing in the player to a barrel on its side.

    The principle, described as a skater's phenomenon, is seen as torso rotating forward without twisting, then twisting at low speed as axis bends over to the left, next rotating faster once that leaning has stopped.

    Here is a letter, arrived today in my in-box, that seems highly relevant to this topic and to so many others for the student of the game who actually believes he can acquire great strokes:

    By Brent Abel (excerpted):


    I was on the phone the other day with my good friend, fellow Tom Stow student, smooth as glass player, tennis coach extraordinaire, one of the funniest guys I know, and all around smarty pants dude ... Jim McLennan of Essential Tennis Instruction.

    Mac and I go waaaay back. I've learned more from this guy than just about anyone else about how to think about the game.

    Jim has helped me better understand what Tom Stow was trying to teach me. That's a been a big part in any success I've had as a player or coach.

    If you're not in Jim's world, you should be here.

    Back to our phone call the other day.

    One of the words and concepts that Jim has been harping on forever is ...

    Rehearsal.

    No ball. No opponent. No practice partner. No ball machine. In fact, no tennis court.

    Instead ... at home.

    Why?

    Off court rehearsing turns your conscious on court manufacturing of stroke technique into sub conscious ... automation on the court.

    Oh man. That was way too wordy ;-) But if it's confusing ... read it a couple more times.

    Mr. Stow would demonstrate how to walk through your home, get to a door jamb, and show you how to feel the spacing & contact point for your forehand.

    Sound goofy? Not if you were with Tom when he explained why rehearsing was so important.

    When you and I are on the court in a practice session working on cleaning up stroke technique, we're consciously trying to make some mechanic or technique happen.

    But your instinctive focus is on the the timing of contact with the incoming ball, and that can blur those things you're trying to clean up.

    Even if it's a slow underhand fed ball, your brain gets consumed with ... timing.

    So rehearsing WITHOUT a ball is the key to feeling those things with stroke technique you want to clean up.

    We see lots of the pros in between points rehearse a swing so that they feel whatever it is that's important to them.

    My chat with Mac went pretty quickly into why we can't seem to get our students to do more rehearsing.

    It might seem like there's no direct tangible value from off court rehearsing at home.
    Last edited by bottle; 01-15-2019, 11:00 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Much of the Previous Serve has Got to Go; it Simply Wasn't Good Enough.

    The new year's serve shall be momentum-based. A succession of known body movements can only work if their sole purpose is to enhance a basic tale of slow-building racket head mo.

    This is also a criticism of tennis posts that constantly adulate or execrate someone. The best tennis instructors are not looking for someone's inclusion of them in a Bible or bibliography.

    While staying positive, they would rather that you steal and actualize their cardinal ideas.
    Last edited by bottle; 01-15-2019, 11:08 AM.

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