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  • bottle
    replied
    Soft Ellie-bams

    The Ellsworth Vines forehand-- biggest hit or miss shot in the history of tennis-- and you want to hit it softly, bottle?

    Exactly. How else can I learn it? I'll re-watch the Pathe films. I'll resist my natural inclination to coil my arm like a spring and glom the Ellie-relaxation instead.

    I've got the backups in place, the Beasley and Beasily bams. They produce forehands more consistent than any I've known.

    So take time, Escher, to build up the Ellie-bam, all the time, Bottle Escher, in the world.

    Keep backswing in the slot. Keep elbow out during the brief drop. I mean, if bent arm drops a small distance, the elbow has to come in a bit, no? But don't bring it in more than that. And don't coil the arm like a striking snake. Go the relaxation route instead. But don't do a mondo through dint of operant conditioning (https://www.google.com/search?q=oper...hrome&ie=UTF-8). You could think half-mondo-- the wrist to lay back slightly but the forearm not to roll under.

    For this is a bam and not topspin shot.

    But hit it easily. Just drop the elbow with wrist going back to swallow racket head momenum from the turn.

    Just drop the racket like a paper cutter. That's count two.

    Three is slow swing through the ball and up.

    Up? Yes. Say, "Welcome into my wheelhouse, ball." Hit it smoothly with a bit of opening elbow. Then contract same elbow to bring the racket tip up to swallow momentum again.

    Why would you want continued momentum when you've already hit the ball?

    So catch the racket out front for a while. Easy, Easy.

    Now hit a little topspin with the arm contraction. Then lift elbow sharply at same time for a reverse forehand.

    Try chop version for a wide ball. (Flat forehand again but with no arm swing before contact, go directly from chop into the pivot.)

    Back to basic Ellie-bam caught out front.

    Later you'll eliminate the catch.

    But for now, easy peazey.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-23-2017, 05:35 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Three Forehand Gears in a Good Warmup

    First Gear) Beasley-bams

    Second Gear) Beasily-bams

    Third Gear) Ellie-bams

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  • bottle
    replied
    Beasily-bam

    Reader, I have to write my new ideas down or I don't think them through. The shot I most want to try has three timing units same as the others. If there are more or fewer than three the shot is uncontrollable, at least by me.

    Desired shot: McEnrueful backswing, down and up, but with the "down" to include a squeeze together of the two halves of the arm. One also leads with the elbow thus closing the strings.

    The "up" now includes the beginning of arm straightening as elbow continues back toward rear fence and maybe to inside a bit.

    Even though the shot I call The McEnrueful puts "down" and "up" together as a single timing unit, this shot thinks of them as separate entities which means one can go through them more slowly.

    1) down, 2) up, 3) mono-level wrist layback and sweep.

    One probably will know if one likes this shot after 20 seconds of self-feed.

    Like a Beasley-bam, this hybrid shot is platter-loop. Unlike Beasley-bam, the platter is small. The longer racket head can stay at ball level the better. That could mean the hand got beneath the strings without altering level of those strings.

    If one doesn't like the shot, the option will remain of straight back bent arm like Ellsworth Vines, small drop, extension sweep.

    Beasley-bam and Ellie-bam: Racket stays square throughout. This shot: racket closes and opens before going through ball square.

    Will this shot have a name? Not if it gets abandoned after 20 seconds. "Beasily-bam," I guess.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-22-2017, 08:55 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    Where Next? (Quo vadis)

    I'd like to graduate from Beasley-bam to Ellie-bam but am unsure of how to get there.

    Watching films of Ellsworth Vines leads to acknowledgement of differences along with the similarities in technique.

    Before giving in to the differences too much, I'd like to try simple reductions of "the platter loop" that takes a Beasley-bam to a shoulder-high ball.

    Lower balls can elicit a spiraling down of the racket before hips pivot drives strings level-- more complicated.

    So the level racketwork shot is the place to make one's initial reduction in scope if such effective reduction is possible.

    Maybe the full scope of hand easing beyond neck is essential to efficiency-- don't know yet.

    Propose less bend in arm but same feel of a "stir" only farther toward slot or actually out in the slot.
    Different Backswing

    The precise nature of Ellsworth Vines' backswing may not be crucial to hitting a full Ellie-bam, and so in self-feed today I'll try a modification to the McEnrueful backswing that ought to work.

    "Down and up" correctly describes the McEnrueful backswing although one shouldn't think of it that way for fear of being slow. Best think is that racket is already up and got there in a single swoop.

    But to invent we frequently take something apart before putting it back together. The "down" will remain exactly the same.

    The "up" will not. The arm will bend more. The wrist will lay back. The strings will get higher than the wrist as in a Beasley-bam. There will be no racket drop before the forward action of the arm begins, at least not today.

    So will racket stay in the slot as in the Pathe films of the Vines forehand?

    To inside of slot or even inside of that, in the compromise I sought in the above post.

    A Beasley-bam starts with hand by neck, which hand then bellies out as elbow goes around neck two inches more.

    The new design thought is that one doesn't need so much "belly."

    Forward racket path will be neither straight (Vines) or broad curve (Beasley). Could we call it curvilinear (https://www.google.com/search?q=curv...ome&ie=UTF-8)? Probably not.

    Whatever it is, it ought to create a slightly inside out path to the ball, at which point smooth pivot of the hips will chime in same as in the other two strokes.

    Will the timing of this be too stark as has happened in at least one other experiment?

    If so, one ought to be able to miniaturize smooth delay from the example of a Beasley-bam.

    The bent arm is up, poised to straighten forward. If shot will be better, the elbow can go backward a little while straightening a little as in a Beasley-bam.

    Whether hand goes around neck or stays closer to one's hitting side, one has shortened backswing by severely bending the arm.

    Note to self: Bring tools to lift net a couple inches at Rouge Park.

    Second Note: Trying new shot for first time in living room created hellaciously open strings at top of the "up." So, on "up" one may have to lead with elbow far toward rear fence.

    Third Note: Don't be overly wedded to one scheme. Compare in self-feed this backswing to one closer to that used by Vines himself, then pick the one that worked better, with Beasley-bam remaining the fallback from either.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-22-2017, 06:38 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    The Big Yield to Temptation

    Of course I tried my killer Ellie-bam even though it was Wednesday and not Friday.

    Once one has imagined a new shot (and a single little change will qualify it as new), it is very doubtful that one won't try it the next time one plays, at least once.

    I am beginning to think (again) that the Beasley-bam and the Ellie-bam are not that far apart.

    The Beasley-bam is circular and looks weird because of one's arm wrapped around one's neck.

    The Ellie-bam employs linear racket work while staying in the slot, which probably resembles shots one already uses or is more familiar with.

    I was coming in and hit an Ellie-bam so hard it was unbelievable. Ken Hunt: "John, what do you have in that bottle?"

    It is nice when someone, anyone, an almost 90-year-old in perfect shape and ranked third in the Midwest 80's, gives you the feedback you need.

    One ought to keep arm bent all the way through elbow-drop-and-wrist-layback in my view. Maybe one should even squeeze arm a little as if compressing a spring-- I don't know, but there is some kind of a distinct feel associated with what is going on just then, something to discover then work with.

    And I'm thinking one should try to learn little by little from the more moderate pace of the very reliable Beasley-bam.

    That shot sees gradual straightening of arm all the way to end of the pivot, so why not try same thing off of linear arm work out in the slot?

    Then later, if that goes, one can add the small scissoring after arm extension from the elbow, the most sophisticated and challenging part of the Vines stroke.

    Oh my gosh, I didn't even try the defensive chop-to-begin Ellie-bam I outlined in the previous post.

    These super flat shots that don't spin and which knuckle at their best are opening up new possibility.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-21-2017, 03:28 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Daily Nomenclature

    1) Easy peazey Beasley-bam

    2) Defensive Ellie-bam. Starts with a high chop from the outside. Intermediate arm swing to ball is eliminated. From chop one goes directly into pivot.

    3) Killer-bam. Terrorist-bam. Offensive Ellie-bam. The most extreme hit-or-miss shot in tennis history. To develop it properly one needs a practice partnership in which the two players do The Game of Errors, which is any form of exercise in which good shots are not rewarded and only errors are awarded.

    So this is Wednesday. So don't try this shot (the full Ellie-bam) until Friday. To hit it, mentally but not physically divide backswing, located strictly in the slot, into a pair of halves:

    A) Bent elbow leads back but racket at same time goes halfway toward point-at-rear-fence position.

    B) Elbow drops to level of oncoming ball while at the same time wrist, which had been straight, lays back so that racket tip is just barely short of pointing at rear fence. (There is no manual available for this part of the stroke. I had to make one up.)

    Now one should be ready to kill the ball. Gradual straightening of the elbow is finally permitted to start. And the elbow itself swings toward the ball. There is no manipulation of forearm (no farm-gating toward the ball whatsoever). Internal elbow and external elbow perform their intermediate swing with the word "intermediate" implying speed without force, i.e., one's weight is still being held back.

    Long hips pivot exaggerated by taken-from-the-hips-body-angle then smoothly transfers weight from rear to front foot.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-21-2017, 02:50 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    No, and this is a smooth string bean one should witness and imitate if one can

    In self-feed, the more promising route seemed to lie in allowing the two attempted strokes (Beasley-bam and Ellie-bam) to be themselves and quite different.

    Also, the B-bam judging from Monday play seemed in a safe place so why mess with it?

    But I notice "body" in the lower part of the Vines stroke here (http://www.britishpathe.com/workspac...is-Finals/full) if I click on 00.40 over and over again.

    By "body" I mean that the racket, having been set almost facing the net-- just pointed rearward a smidge beyond that-- develops more point toward rear during the downward belly of its path.

    Awareness of this small detail could help unlock the code of repeatability in pressure-filled play.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Where Next?

    I'd like to graduate from Beasley-bam to Ellie-bam but am unsure of how to get there.

    Watching films of Ellsworth Vines leads to acknowledgement of differences along with the similarities in technique.

    Before giving in to the differences too much, I'd like to try simple reductions of "the platter loop" that takes a Beasley-bam to a shoulder-high ball.

    Lower balls can elicit a spiraling down of the racket before hips pivot drives strings level-- more complicated.

    So the level racketwork shot is the place to make one's initial reduction in scope if such effective reduction is possible.

    Maybe the full scope of hand easing beyond neck is essential to efficiency-- don't know yet.

    Propose less bend in arm but same feel of a "stir" only farther toward slot or actually out in the slot.

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  • bottle
    replied
    B-Bam & E-Bam Same at Effectiveness in Self-Feed, Almost Same in a Hit, Unequal in Play

    And so, in play, I hit a lot of Beasley-bams, altered so that one arm instead of two takes the racket up around one's neck.

    It is a great shot threatening in its greatness to become my staple forehand, invented at the age of 77.5 among the three-foot bushes on the tennis courts at fabled Rouge Park in Detroit.

    I hit these Beasley-bams hard and I hit them soft. I hit some moderate ones just beyond the outstretched arm and racket of the nearest opponent.

    Aim was a dream.

    I love these shots better than the topspin I've worked so hard to master.

    I would hit more topspin if I still played singles, but I don't, I play doubles.

    And don't care in the least that my Beasley-bam is a museum piece, resurrected out of the Mercer Beasley book, 1937 revised edition, HOW TO PLAY TENNIS.

    Beasley, if he needs further creds than those he already has in tennis history, wrote among other things,

    "The secret of the volley is simply this:

    "The ball hits the racket. The RACKET DOES NOT SWING AND HIT THE BALL.

    "The volley is strictly a blocked or deflected shot, executed in one motion: FORWARD.

    "There is practically no follow through on volley shots."

    Beasley coached Frank Parker, Clifford Sutter, Helen Fulton, Ned Russell, Bonnie Miller, Frances Herron, Bitsy Grant, Wilmer Allison, Wilber Hess, Carolin Babcock.

    We all know, though, who the brightest star in Beasley's pantheon of champions was.

    And if the Beasley-bam is a museum piece, it is a still effective museum piece in 2017 .

    Whether I can go the last step of incorporating the Ellsworth Vines modifications to the Beasley-bam I do not know (out in the slot and pull the punch to score a knockout).

    I might be forever content just to gradually straighten the arm so that it and the racket point directly at the target as hips complete their pivot.

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  • bottle
    replied
    How Does the Elbow Go Up and then Come Down in an Ellie-bam?

    Answer: Not much and with very little work. The loop is pencil thin. I doubt that the loose motion of a mondo could succeed in such a small arrangement but don't intend to find out. I have removed the mondo or flip from all of my forehands. It is the cause of mediocrity.

    Judging from films of the Ellsworth Vines forehand, he takes elbow up no more than a couple of inches above where he knows the ball will be.

    Then he drops the elbow those couple inches and pushes it out.

    Push means push from the hips, push from the elbow, and push from within the elbow before arm contracts back to where it was. There has been a unified knockout punch.

    The trouble with first seeing a Vines or Budge forehand is that one only sees a two-count sidearm throw.

    No, a forehand needs to perform in three counts, at least it does if you are me, Bottle John Escher.

    In a Beasley-bam, first count, which includes the whole backward bod turn, bends the two halves of the arm completely together. Second count coils elbow back a few inches more as arm straightens also by a few inches. Third count is the rest of the gradual arm straightening combined with pivot into the ball and straight arm finish at the target.

    In an Ellie-bam, first count is elbow lift of a couple inches combined with bod turn and racket tip never pointing back very much and everything out in the slot. Second count is elbow drop of a couple inches. Third count is the knockout punch, a dramatic push-pull.

    In topspin push shot by contrast the elbow leads upward motion not by inches but by a foot or more-- count one. Vertical loop then circles down and around-- count two. Big push still preserving coin on edge form lifts strings straight forward and up.

    In baton-propeller topspin, count one is same as elbow lift in the topspin push shot. Count two however is more of an in and out affair. The forearm still coils backward but no longer with loose motion. The whole straightened arm begins to twirl. All that happens in count two. In count three the twirl continues to put strings on outside of the ball combined with a big push or not.

    But let's return to the Ellie-bam. The first count is elbow lift, we decided, the second elbow drop, the third elbow push (along with push from everything else).

    These minimalist shots, in self-feed, go as fast and far as those produced by the Beasley-bams.

    When one hits them, one feels that the drop and push is a single act. And it is. Still, a drop is a drop, you didn't consciously push the elbow down. In this way elbow drop-- gravity operated-- although exceedingly small still qualifies as a full count.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-18-2017, 05:08 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Mondo, Flip, Flop and Fashion Mondo

    How to solve the problem of this needless move once and for all.

    You, reader, probably think there is good reason to flip, and there have been long decades in which I was in your camp.

    I've read technical explanation on why to do it but not much. For the most part people would prefer not to discuss mondo or even think about it. As I say, I've probably heard some good reasoning in support. It just that I'm getting old and forget.

    The term "fashion mondo," of course, is one of utter contempt. Most people who mondo don't have any idea why. They mondo because everybody else mondoes.

    Also, it's a hot dog thing to do. And seems economical. Wouldn't one be more economical though just to eliminate it altogether?

    To that end, I propose forehands with wrist laid back to one half of the wrist layback range. One can wait with hands slightly offset to left. Racket with this .5 wrist setting will then point straight at net.

    Where this experiment will lead, I'm not sure, but I like exploration for the sake of exploration.

    I know that flat wrist works well for flat shots, and suspect that .5 layback will work for them and for push topspin forehands as well.

    It is in the more extreme form of baton-propeller topspin forehand that the most questions will arise.

    Bring them on.

    Self-Feed Report:

    The weeds on half the courts at Rouge Park were mowed yesterday. But just so any tennis players wouldn't get arrogant, one three-foot bush was left standing somewhere on each court. That would be at the baseline center mark on the court I use.

    Beasley-bams were best hit with straight wrist, like McEnruefuls. Ellie-bams were best hit with same grip only with wrist set at .5 layback. Push topspin was best hit with strong eastern set at .5 layback. Same thing for baton-propeller topspin forehands. And rotorded serves worked best if human head moved BEHIND its toss position with bending of both knees including rear heel lift. Also, more serving power was generated if racket position when legs thrust mimicked same racket position on opposite side of hand when legs took their bend. So much about serving concerns precise cues, doesn't it? And I am sure that best cue on when to bend and when to thrust with legs varies within a range of commonality from server to server.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-17-2017, 03:56 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Ellie-bam, Beasley-bam-- it's all the same BAM

    It's just that one is the short version, the other the long version, and in terms of development the long version probably has to come first.

    After watching Ellsworth Vines films for the 20th time, I think that he, Ellie, puts a push on the ball from the elbow before he contracts his arm again.

    But all that is nothing compared to the push that the "external elbow" and perfectly timed hips pivot applies.

    To say everything happens at once would be understatement.

    In terms of personal development of these shots, I put myself somewhere in the middle, with a one-arm coil replacing the two-arm coil I had just yesterday.

    Eventually-- who knows?-- the pared down, stripped down version of Vines himself may prove more attainable than I thought. (I've been back and forth on that one.)

    Perhaps I shouldn't pick on poor dead Bud Collins again, but remain shocked by his view that the Ellsworth Vines forehand was a 360-degree anomaly.

    The Vines forehand is one of the most compact tennis strokes there ever has been.

    Yesterday I got a short ball in the middle of the court, wound up with both hands on my neck, then missed the shot.

    "He tried to hurt me," one of my opponents said.

    Hurting him could still be possible.

    The most provocative thing is the body angle that Ellworth Vines always sustains.

    He is anything but upright.

    The body angle is a factor in his lauded speed about the court.

    His weight of head is always leading the charge to the next shot.

    The body angle, too, applies a longer lever from the hips.

    Do such bent over shots carry the risk of loss of balance?

    Of course, and that should be resisted.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-17-2017, 04:17 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Report

    Workable but didn't produce the clean and solid hits that sometime occurred with my less mannered initial attempts at hitting Beasley-bams-- before I got distracted by Pathe films of Ellsworth Vines himself.

    Time now to revisit those films (post # 3617). I don't think that Vines ended up with two straight and parallel arms forming an avenue toward the target the way the boy in the Beasley photo montages does in HOW TO PLAY TENNIS, 1937 revised edition.

    My whole idea is to study the contact area in the Ellie-bams while ignoring his earlier part of the same stroke. I feel the same way about the forehands of J. Donald Budge, who was Vines' regular rival. There is a similarity. The Budge and Vines forehands are magnificent sidearm throws that look incredibly easy but aren't, in fact are beyond my ability.

    To the first film. No, Vines doesn't do anything fancy with his left arm shortly before his pivot. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcY4pkX5GC8) Simplification for me is about to occur. I'll have less to do.

    If arm straightens gradually as Mercer Beasley teaches, let this advice apply to just one of the two arms, the hitting arm.

    Also, I'll point across sooner. No need to drag left arm all the way up to side of back of neck.

    To summarize: More right arm function where before both arms were more in the act.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-17-2017, 02:29 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Farther Around the Back?

    Say it ain't so, Joe. Modern forehands keep backswing in the slot.

    But does a geezer playing doubles really want a modern forehand? Maybe he wants a flat forehand. And who is the best model for that? Ellsworth Vines?

    We have examined the difference between a Beasley-bam and its first cousin, the Ellie-bam, identical pretty much in contact and follow through (except for a detail or two).

    In deciding for the Beasley-bam, we fully acknowledge that wrapping both hands around one's neck to start a forehand appears (but only appears) a dubious proposition.

    Could take too long? Not really. Teaching pros generally want you to keep two hands on the racket to help get the shoulders quickly and fully around.

    Well, the start to a Beasley-bam is that idea on steroids.

    And now both hands are touching the outside of the back of one's neck.

    And next the arms do a little breast-stroke in which both elbows while straightening a little go out in opposite direction from bod a little, thus establishing nice separation between the hands.

    This move, while creating the image of a hoop, also is very good for timing in my view.

    Does the hoop now have to change its form?

    I don't think so. Both arms can gently swing parallel to one another as both gently straighten. In describing a maybe not so different flat forehand Tom Okker spoke of lead arm calming the waters, an image that might put any forehand out to sea or really work.

    Then comes smooth hips pivot to conclude the shot.

    Question: Are both arms still moving and straightening when hips take over? Should.

    Note: I expect this shot, with parallel arms extended like insect feelers, to end points. If in the long run it proves unsustainable technique, though, I'll still be glad I restored it as a museum piece.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-16-2017, 02:49 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    The Election Results Keep Mounting

    Now J. Donald Budge has weighed in. He too favors a forehand follow through in which the racket points directly at the target while trying to fly at it behind the ball.

    It is only one's hand and strong wish to keep playing the point, Mercer Beasley asserts, that prevents such tennis racket flight.

    And me-- I have expressed difficulty in making energy conclude right there.

    During one point in Wednesday's carousel however I was in the process of hitting a relaxed Beasley-bam.

    The speed of hips pivot at end of the stroke, inspired by one of my opponents taking the net, created a sharp crosscourt passing shot that was entirely effective and fast.

    Herein, methought, lies the future.

    And I must reflect that the Beasley-bam development project was coming along quite nicely before I foolishly decided to interrupt it with a spate of Ellie-bams.

    Even worse now would be to interrupt it with J. Donald Budge imitation forehands.

    Or with any other sidearmed forehand that resembles a baseball throw from shortstop to first.

    The Beasley-bam is very different. It is a round-about thing in which all arm straightening (a lot!) whether from the shoulder or the elbow happens all at once with gradualness, i.e., a little at a time.

    If one is having trouble concluding energy at the ideal spot, I figure, perhaps one can put a little more of the swing behind one's back.
    Last edited by bottle; 06-16-2017, 01:56 AM.

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