"Loop behind the back is insufficient."
Try this. It's different from anything heard anyplace else-- a clunk and then the loop or "teardrop."
"Touch the back with the racquet during the swing; during the loop, hold the racquet with the thumb and forefinger only."
From TENNIS: TECHNIQUE. TACTICS. TRAINING. PLAY TO WIN THE CZECH WAY. By Dr. Jindrich Holm, Prague 1982 .
Many other sources invoke the thumb and forefinger trick but not in this precise context.
Or am I just reading something in a certain way? Did Dr. Hohm mean, after translation by Peter Klavora in Toronto, for a rotorded server to use the thumb and forefinger trick to clunk the back? Or to employ the trick, as I think, AFTER the clunk?
Regardless of interpretation, any serious and seriously rotorded server should run both of these clunking experiments.
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A New Year's Serve
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Self-feed Session-- Apply to One's own New Shots
Hit one basket of Ellie-bams. Hit one basket of Agi-scissors in opposite direction.
The Ellie-bam X that the two arms sequentially form is a tall X if that makes sense. Made the final transition from chop preparation (very good among other possibilities for a forehand drop shot) to a pencil-thin loop similar to what Ellsworth Vines uses in the old clips.
The Agi-scissor did not receive any changes today (not when it worked in actual play yesterday). But the see-see variation of it requires a different follow through than that used by Agi in all the TV and clip forehands of hers that I've seen especially in the present TennisPlayer Radwanska thread.
Also hit a few serves. Made one change after watching own shadow. Hitting arm starts up toward side fence, then tossing arm surpasses it. Racket does not reach apogee (high point) until somewhere in the middle of all the sideways travel across the back.
But, I am a rotorded server meaning namely that I suffer from restriction of humeral rotation in a backward direction. I therefore need more looseness of total motion in my serve and think the change of today may bring it.
Note: In the interest of focus have placed all Federfores on temporary hold. See my forehands as animals in need of slow training. And all, even if they were veteran shots before, are new shots now thanks to different movement of left or opposite hand in each case.
Am not yet ready for 1-to-1 alternation of Ellie-bams and Agi-scissors because of their different weight transfers. Am thinking of both self-feed and rallying with a very good hitting partner. The 1-to-1 alternation of the two different weight transfers is coming soon.Last edited by bottle; 07-27-2017, 11:53 AM.
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Crime
Not looking for small items in the Ellsworth Vines forehand would be a crime. Bud Collins for instance had it (the Ellie-bam) confused with the Beasley-bam. Starting from there, one can see that all available information on Vines isn't very good.
And yet the shot is considered one of the most powerful in the history of tennis. And many people still want to hit flat at least a certain portion of their time. So why should this great shot be excluded from their consideration?
I see uniqueness in Vines' use of his left arm. It points neither straight toward the net or straight at the right fence but precisely in between. And his forearm remains parallel to where it just was. Am talking about two joints going from extension to contraction with late pivot of the bod carrying this transition out.
Thus one element usually associated with opposite hand movement has been eliminated-- the "smoothing of the waters" of Okker, Federer or Radwanska.
Is that subtraction "personal characteristic," the usual accusation of a tennis snob when a hacker tries to imitate a pro? I don't think so. It is removal of one unnecessary moving "part," i.e., sound engineering.
And creates an interesting X in the way that the two arms sequentially point.
__________________________________________________ ________________
Thus spaketh John Escher, which is my real name. But then again Bottle is my real name, too. (John Bottle, the captain of my eight-oared crew used to call me.) And then Bottle went out to play.
The slight change in left arm dynamics utterly removed a whole shot, one of my favorites, from my forehand repertoire at least for a whole morning. Was concept bad then? Was Vines' use of left hand bad for my use of left hand? Did I look at enough clips of Vines hitting forehands to discover variations-- if there are variations-- in Vines' use of his left hand? Is the new idea worth taking through a round or more of self-feed before trying it again in play? Probably. The thought of simplification of left hand tempts and compels.
But the real lesson here is that doing something different with one's left hand can break or make a whole stroke.Last edited by bottle; 07-27-2017, 03:55 AM.
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Staggered Arm Rise but Integrated with Coil this Time
Other people know better than you what you should write about. Maybe and maybe not.
Staggered arm rise is the big new development here. Right arm starts but isn't all the way up when left arm carrying the ball chimes in. The two arms might end by going up together for all I know. The bigger goal is rolling, roiling motion for itself.
If the previous experiment in separating toss from coil drained too much time from backward rotation of the shoulders, here is solution.
Start hips backward with staggered rise of the arms or with rise of tossing arm only.
That buys time for shoulders to do their thing.Last edited by bottle; 07-26-2017, 03:03 AM.
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Integrated or Separate Toss and Wind?
Today I try to think through separate toss and wind only. I'm careful to preserve the iterative quality of what I recently have been doing. There is a narrative from day to day and even from week to week.
Right arm goes up first. Second arm will go up second. Only when left arm is pointing at sky will hips rotate back. Followed in rapid sequence by shoulders rotating back, at which point total movement reverses direction.
There can and ought to be rhythm in the way the two arms go up in close sequence. Tomorrow in actual play I also will try a few of these serves without backward hips turn, just shoulders turn from the gut. A more turned around stance might help in this.Last edited by bottle; 07-25-2017, 04:55 PM.
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Review of the Forehand Troops
We have in our forehand army a combination of toughened veterans and wet-behind-the-ears neophytes. Either group is apt to turn tail and run. But we would prefer that they turn tail while hitting forehands-- the thing we pay them for.
We start with the Ellie-bam regiment. In this shot, so simple and pared down, smoothness equates with power. One fourth of the energy of the other regimental shots is required to get it off.
The second regiment, of Federfores, uses from initial turn a big breaststroke same as the third regiment's Agi-scissor. Left arm does more work than the right arm in the same breaststroke of both shots.
The main difference is Roger, our model, sets up farther to the side and keeps his arm straight once he's got it straight-- straight until returning to his left vaccination mark (if he was vaccinated).
Agi on the other hand bends her left arm in tandem with bending her right arm on her way to the ball while pivoting and transferring weight early. She does this for skater's effect, i.e., accelerative whirl. The third regiment uses her as its model of accuracy.
That leaves the fourth known as the "see-see regiment," administers of acute topspin angle good from deuce court only. The see-see soldiers have again been trained on the model of Agnieszka Radwanska, only do not transfer weight with their pivot of their butt. Instead, the see-sees transfer weight in tandem with bending arm swing only while hips are kept in rigid abeyance, square and parallel to the right fence. Only when weight is safely ensconced on front foot is the pivot permitted to release. Racket, still being pushed around by pressing elbow though in a new direction by now is permitted to close a bit to end of the follow through.
To battle-- excelsior!Last edited by bottle; 07-25-2017, 04:26 AM.
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Left Hand in an Ellie-bam
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcY4pkX5GC8)
Now click on 56 in the same video to see how left arm could improve one's imitation. Click 56 repeatedly. It looks to me that the left arm straightens forward-- very proactively-- as the hitting elbow goes back. Which arm at that point is doing more work?
The left arm then bends.
Best advice on the subject probably comes from Australian tennis writer Paul Metzler in his book ADVANCED TENNIS:
"At your next practice, play several shots of every type of stroke with your left hand in your pocket throughout. Then take it out and make the most use you can of it-- without actually playing two-handed, of course-- in every one of your strokes. Whatever advantage you gain, build it into your game so that you will perform it naturally. I don't think you'll find that you have altogether wasted your time."
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Originally posted by bottle View Post
Maybe this falls in the realm of "oblique perception." You're asked, or ask yourself, to give concentration to something, and in so doing notice something else off to the side you wouldn't maybe have noticed otherwise.
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Originally posted by stotty View Post
Amazing...different people see different things. I am mesmerised by Vines' reverse forehand at 36 then Lott hitting his serve at the apex of the toss at 38...fascinating. Two amazing things happening within two seconds of each other.Last edited by bottle; 07-24-2017, 01:12 PM.
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Originally posted by bottle View PostPerfecting a Simpler and More Effortless Forehand
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcY4pkX5GC8)
Click on this video precisely at 27 . It is essential that you find 27 since you will be clicking on it again and again. First the flat shot artist Ellsworth Vines hits his forehand and then the cut shot artist George Lott hits his. And you, by clicking on the number 27 have created duelling banjos which you can keep going all day long.
Ellie is the subject here, not George. Notice how Ellie doesn't waste time holding on to his racket with his left hand yet still gets a good bod turn. And still puts something, though minimal, between bod turn back and bod turn forward.
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Perfecting a Simpler and More Effortless Forehand
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcY4pkX5GC8)
Click on this video precisely at 27 . It is essential that you find 27 since you will be clicking on it again and again. First the flat shot artist Ellsworth Vines hits his forehand and then the cut shot artist George Lott hits his. And you, by clicking on the number 27 have created duelling banjos which you can keep going all day long.
Ellie is the subject here, not George. Notice how Ellie doesn't waste time holding on to his racket with his left hand yet still gets a good bod turn. And still puts something, though minimal, between bod turn back and bod turn forward.
What is it, this thing between the turns, that can vary from almost nothing as here to a huge breaststroke in most 2017 tour forehands, but always seems nevertheless to exist.
It is a slight movement of the elbow. If you keep clicking on 27 you can see a bit of light opening each time you click in the crook of Ellie's elbow.
In the incipient form of this forehand created by Ellie's mentor Mercer Beasley, such elbow movement in personal experiments turned out to be absolutely essential to the magic of the shot.
But the elbow movement happened way around behind the back. And was combined with the very beginning of the protracted straightening from the elbow.
Now that beginning of elbow straightening has been eliminated. Because the amount of desired elbow bend has already been set. And yet the seminal move of the elbow, providing essential timing between the two bod turns, has come across in the evolution from Beasley-bam to Ellie-bam.
What's left here? A lot of Zen Buddhism as arm straightens as if into someone's chin, abetted by delayed hips turn to finish off the punch, smooth but all out, the way it best is going to work.Last edited by bottle; 07-24-2017, 12:48 PM.
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A Small Occurrence, Not to be Forgotten
Serves improved when original pre-toss lift of racket went farther toward right fence, which naturally means rising closer to bod in the net to rear fence spectrum.
Well, I sought more sideways travel in my service motion similar to that of former NCAA singles champ Bea Bielik.
And this is one way of achieving that goal cognizant that elbow going sideways will also deepen amount of distance of hand behind head.
Without having tried the new serve in actual play (that happens tomorrow) I want to be positive about it ahead of time.
And so I will state that this change is not the result of wishing the racket to be HERE when the legs just got bent THERE, or any similar very technical analysis, but rather the simplicity of admiring some woman's graceful serve.
Maximizing sideways travel in this manner allows for the improved looseness that comes with increased simultaneity of elbow travel, elbow bend and hips rotation all in the same direction.
Backward shoulders rotation then continues the looseness only in a more downward direction.
What will be the result of all this? Am willing to suspend judgment and wait and see.
But how can more looseness be a bad thing in the case of a server who is a bit tight?
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A True Recognition
One of the truest recognitions ever to emerge from these pages is Stotty's saying that he begins to see something (presumably on court or in video) once it has been pointed out.
In my case, I thought for a long time that forehand-hitting Ellsworth Vines gradually straightened his arm toward his target but then bent his arm also toward his target.
No, he bends his arm after it got straight pointing at the target.
He bends as racket comes away from the target after full extension.
This is what I could not see until I told myself to see it.
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Montaigne-like Ramble-- You're Warned
My friend Ken Hunt, 88 (I think) continues to be a friend despite my insistence on tennis stroke invention. I suppose if we were doubles partners in national level tournaments, and we lost some big match because of my newest invention, that would strain our relationship. That once happened in a four-state league with another partner who was ranked like Ken. "After all the work we did..." he said as my heart sank. We were so far ahead of the best of the Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland and Pennsylvania teams before we (I in particular) fell apart.
But Ken is different, always messing with his strokes the way I do. He is perfectly happy to call himself a lifelong hacker (which he is and he isn't).
All three of his kids played tennis at University Liggett School in Grosse Pointe MI and went on to great careers both within tennis and without.
His daughter played number one singles for Georgetown University. And earlier, Ken lived in Winston-Salem NC, a place where I spent 12 years.
A real tennis person from a real tennis family, in other words. Earlier, before I even knew the name "Ken Hunt" I reported here that I had the best hit of my life with him. Why? Because he keeps a ball going forever while hitting the spots that will build your game, not just his.
In fact he told me yesterday about one very good partner he had who preferred a hit to a play. Eventually, of course, they would play.
Like everyone's favorite initial essayist (including the never-to-ramble Ralph Waldo Emerson's) Michel de Montaigne, I start anywhere. The question now is where am I going with my Agi-scissor, my Ellie-bam, and my McEnrueful.
And what about my Beasley-bam. It's dying an historical death as I realize more and more how Mercer Beasley's most famous student, Ellsworth Vines, rebelled against his mentor in paring down that shot. (Or was Beasley right there on the court contributing to that whittling down-- how can I know?)
And Don Budge's forehand, I now suspect, was not significantly different from the Ellie-bam except in backswing and possibly grip and weight transfer.
In any case, Budge attributed one of his great wins, over Fred Perry, to having played against Ellsworth Vines just before, at greater speed.
And Vines and Budge both grew up in a tradition where, on the forehand side, you felt you were throwing your racket after the ball.
When I read that same tip in both HOW TO PLAY TENNIS by Mercer Beasley and DON BUDGE: A TENNIS MEMOIR, I became a bit confused.
Because when you watch old videos, both Vines and Budge bend the arm back toward the bod a bit in a very similar looking and distinctive follow through.
Now I'm learning the Agi-scissor, which is hit "with weight where the racket is" and uses a twirl for its follow through as one's butt sinks to the close. This could be an initial step toward more accuracy.
Budge, I think, is too complete a player to try and imitate.
The extremes of forehand characteristic in Radwanska and Vines however give the caricaturist or mere slavish imitator more of a specific to work with.
To hit a powerful flat non-spinning knuckleball like Vines, I choose to separate hands early and prepare as if for a chop by bending the arm up.
Gradual straightening of elbow then occurs through both leveling off and delayed weight transfer described in a single word as "pivot" followed then by slight bending of the arm.Last edited by bottle; 07-23-2017, 06:48 AM.
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