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  • Good Grief

    My best backhand slice returns were the imitation Phillippoussis with its initiating back clench and the one where I take left hand off the racket early. Zowie! That one cooked in one out of three tries and the other two also stayed in and weren't bad.

    But I'm looking forward to improving the model that's closest to Rosewall. I do think success will depend on learning to straighten arm from core rotations within a 30-degree wedge of pie.

    Comment


    • ~

      And maybe simplifying the grip change. Just pull with left hand while relaxing fingers of the right hand. This gets knuckle to the desired place. Now don't slide hands together-- leave that to Ken Rosewall. Left hand still on throat will travel a bit more to lower racket tip during the middle part of the timing chant where you get racket more behind hand ("back, level, swing!"), but so what. Seems like an interesting trade off. Besides, since this is the grip change I've used most of my tennis life, it ought to be better myelinated than any other. But what if that old myelin is hard and cracked? AAARRRRGGGGHGH!
      Last edited by bottle; 11-10-2011, 09:42 AM.

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      • ~

        Yes, but coordinate grip change (don't flip racket, which one could certainly do) with winding back of the shoulders. Do it that slowly, in tandem. Now racket gets back just as shoulders finish THEIR turn back. And left hand, which effected the grip change, can stay at work-- economical. It pulls slowly back and then slowly down to perform the teeter-totter with right hand the fulcrum.

        Back, level, swing. This is the plan.
        Last edited by bottle; 11-10-2011, 09:55 AM.

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        • In My Arrogant Opinion

          This is going to work. But like any arrogant person, I'm apt to get ahead of myself, which could lead to a tragic or worse, bathetic, fall.

          I'm too impatient however to do anything else. My mind races ahead and I take my body with it.

          On one hand topspin backhands, I've just been straightening my arm in tandem with a leveling of my shoulders. Then twisting the arm to bring the racket tip around. Then lifting both ends of my stick.

          Are there ways to dun arm-straightening for more of a financial (I mean kinetic) contribution?

          Tennis is loaded with them.

          If I can centrifugate arm straight to begin the forward part of a backhand slice, why can't I do the same in a backhand topspin?

          Später. Viszlat. Later.
          Last edited by bottle; 11-10-2011, 11:06 AM.

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          • Five Overheads Instead Of One

            In TENNIS by Pancho Gonzalez, the master teaches a beginner's smash along with a more advanced one.

            The only trouble with this is that most people remain and should remain beginners for the duration of their life.

            So I prefer the term "easy smash" to beginner's smash.

            The big difference, which Gonzalez demonstrates with photos and even gives his own name, "the small punch," involves the same continental grip as advanced version but an early opening of the racket face and slight cocking of the racket tip with hand directly in front of the eyes.

            He writes, "I never flailed away with all my power until I first had achieved consistency and placement."

            But why should anybody ever use more of an overhead than they need unless unconsciously they want to miss.

            Question: Should the easy version even be called a "smash?" Yes and for one reason-- because it's a cousin of the other. Truly though it is an overhead volley or "placement"; on the other hand if the ball is coming down fast when you hit it it will also hit the court pretty fast.

            Sometimes when one wants to take the easy lob and bounce it over the heads of one's opponents, one might choose to use a windmill service action that is even fuller than that of a normal (no jump) or difficult (yes jump) smash.

            Or one could start this windmill with arm bending, etc. then at the last instant convert it to "the small punch" for a drop-shot overhead which would be one's number five smash.

            Comment


            • Key to the smash

              Originally posted by bottle View Post
              In TENNIS by Pancho Gonzalez, the master teaches a beginner's smash along with a more advanced one.

              The only trouble with this is that most people remain and should remain beginners for the duration of their life.

              So I prefer the term "easy smash" to beginner's smash.

              The big difference, which Gonzalez demonstrates with photos and even gives his own name, "the small punch," involves the same continental grip as advanced version but an early opening of the racket face and slight cocking of the racket tip with hand directly in front of the eyes.

              He writes, "I never flailed away with all my power until I first had achieved consistency and placement."

              But why should anybody ever use more of an overhead than they need unless unconsciously they want to miss.

              Question: Should the easy version even be called a "smash?" Yes and for one reason-- because it's a cousin of the other. Truly though it is an overhead volley or "placement"; on the other hand if the ball is coming down fast when you hit it it will also hit the court pretty fast.

              Sometimes when one wants to take the easy lob and bounce it over the heads of one's opponents, one might choose to use a windmill service action that is even fuller than that of a normal (no jump) or difficult (yes jump) smash.

              Or one could start this windmill with arm bending, etc. then at the last instant convert it to "the small punch" for a drop-shot overhead which would be one's number five smash.
              The key to the smash is to get sideways in the "trophy" position. If you want to be a little more careful, you can wait in the non-existent "backscratch" position (Ashe used that position). It's fine to start with just a volley up high to get the sense of hitting with your arm extended, but with a little preparation and practice, even a beginner can hit a "real" smash. And it is so much fun, it's worth the little extra risk. This doesn't mean you have to swing hard or come out of your shoes; just make a nice move up to the ball and it will have plenty of speed.

              don

              Comment


              • ~

                Okay, boss, I'll go with the Ashe smash only. Because I do wanna have fun. And I love theater! My last post was just a few thoughts preliminary to putting any program into effect. Good thing you caught me while I still was malleable.

                Thanks for the word "non-existent" in describing backscratch in the overhead taught by Arthur Ashe in his book for kids. I've always wondered about my lack of lowness there. Not getting racket tip low enough is a real challenge to a rotorded person determined to attain his best serve.

                But on the overhead, no, not a problem. The rotorded server can belt an easy overhead down for a bounce that carries it two courts over. His opponent then will think he's better than he is, an advantage that T.R.S. may harbor very carefully until the end of the match but probably not beyond that.

                A new link: http://bottle-booksandstuffbyjohnescher.blogspot.com/
                Last edited by bottle; 11-15-2011, 06:37 AM.

                Comment


                • Backhand Slice in TENNIS SKILLS, Barron's 1990

                  If shape of the swing is from inside to outside to inside one obtains a longer leg of straightness with which to scrape but not "hit" or "chop" the ball.

                  The backhand slice sequence in this Deutscher Tennis Bund book, which opens with a large two-page photo of Steffi Graf hitting her signature backhand slice, also is done in facing pages but with a large amount of text and a 14-frame photo sequence from reader's right to left.

                  Helpfully, the text advises that one can extend the arm and roll the racket over at one and the same time. I wish to add, "with perfect confidence." Would the average player arrive at something like that unless someone told him? I doubt it.

                  Aside from that, the text really doesn't say what I want to learn. But I wish I could easily reproduce the photo sequence here. Because it's different from Ken Rosewall or Trey Waltke or Mark Phillippoussis. Is it similar to the way Steffi hit her slice? In the one frame in common between the frontispiece starring Steffi and the instructional section starring an unnamed man the shoulders are slanted down toward the net and the handle is considerably beneath the strings.

                  I have always thought that the Steffi-slice, perhaps the greatest backhand slice of the present era, resembles a sea-serpent. But how exactly? Do racket or shoulders do it or what? I didn't know but that was my impression.

                  So, does the man in the official Deutscher Tennis Bund instructional backhand slice presentation resemble a sea-serpent? Well, his racket does, could even be a dolphin or two gliding through the water.

                  Here's what his racket tip does: Goes around wide, lowers, rises, lowers, rises.

                  But knowing that isn't enough. Exactly how high does the racket tip rise after it has slightly lowered behind the man's back? Well, it rises higher than it was before that first lowering.

                  Hand by contrast, which has traveled to almost even with the man's chin, has lowered substantially, and we know that such lowering will roll the racket head toward the net and close it. But the man didn't lower so much that the racket tip went on a level path or descended. No, it went up. So some other kind of roll-- a simple hand roll or the roll of the shoulders into the tilt-- must also be involved.

                  Me, I'll split the roll 33-33-33 among the three types then adjust as I begin to explore this interesting shot, which enables both body rotation (1) and scapular muscles (2) to go to work before contact.
                  Last edited by bottle; 11-17-2011, 07:12 AM.

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                  • ~

                    In fact, one may be able to get away with using only two of the three available types of roll: Simultaneous digging with front shoulder and lowering of elbow are the two I vote for without yet having gone to the court, although I have already swung a racket outside.

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                    • ~

                      I like keeping things at the design level for a longer time than most persons are comfortable with. "You should only go with the discoveries you make on the court," one player said. But his strokes were very ordinary as I recall.

                      If this stroke I'm working on is, as I suspect, the Steffi-slice, then it's a very special stroke with a big pay-off for anyone who actually figures it out. I don't think many people have. Worse, they didn't try.

                      For guidance, let's use serve, the most powerful stroke in tennis, along with one coach's maxim: "Go for more unity and less sequence."

                      Backswing should be wide according to the Deutscher Tennis Bund book. That means less bend in the arm.

                      We've already talked a lot about arm. So let's talk more about body. In a serve body rotates in more than a single way and all at once. So let's try that.
                      Last edited by bottle; 11-17-2011, 07:20 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Barron's Unknown Slicer

                        I'm going to say elbow first comes up to just below shoulders. On teeter-totter it comes up to shoulders. On slanting drop it comes to just below the nipples and lined up with leading edge of the body but out toward side fence.

                        So from where to where is the "dig?" (That would be the slight roll of the shoulders toward the net.)

                        From start of forward motion to end of descent of the racket.

                        Shoulders then level out as racket comes up again.

                        The most complete example of this type of slice would be all the You-Tube videos of Steffi Graf at Wimbledon-- but these, though amazing to behold, are not too good for instruction.

                        For total contrast there's Roger Federer's level-shouldered chop:



                        For partial contrast there's the videos of Waltke, Rosewall and Phillippoussis discussed so much here and elsewhere in this forum.

                        These guys keep their shoulders level but hit through the ball pretty flat.

                        I'm going to say that Graf and the Barron's slicer provide a compromise: heavy spin but they hit through the ball more than Roger, too.

                        I've already told the story of a Swiss lady playing in a high-level tournament at my club in Virginia and cutting through the field like butter by remembering to dig on her slice. I'd like to cut through a lot of blather on this subject in the same way. If nothing else, a new option might come out of the attempt.

                        What should one do when faced with a number of options in tennis technique?
                        Only go with what one sees on the internet? In tennis books? What one has seen first-person? What one has experienced on the court first-person?

                        Some combination of course.

                        Last edited by bottle; 11-19-2011, 09:20 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Where Explanation Should Break Down

                          In the present stroke being discussed:

                          Arm work starts before body work.

                          Body revolves horizontally right up to the below nipples position but continues digging through contact.

                          Feel the arm swing pulling first, with shoulders level, before unified body turn commences. This first part of the swing is of the racket butt only.

                          So, where should explanation break down?

                          Maybe it shouldn't. There's some heresy for you! Espousers of explanation can claim a "fine attention to detail" and a belief in Mumbo-Jumbo on the part of all detractors.

                          This is not to reject mystery. In re-reading on Kindle MATCH PLAY AND THE SPIN OF THE BALL, I find a great emphasis on weight going through the ball just at the right moment, the achievement of which could seem pretty mysterious.

                          Timing, spin and everything is seen related to this happy occurrence. And Tilden, confessing that his timing was, at first, not very good, attributes his eventual success to his ideas on footwork.

                          These ideas are nicely general, i.e., right-brained, e.g., run all out for a distant ball and then start skipping when you're about six feet away to get feet just right.

                          Comment


                          • An Earlier Contact Than Thought

                            I should perhaps apologize for alluding so much to a photo sequence that isn't in front of us all. On the other hand, the goal is simply to hit slice like that of Steffi Graf, which is lavishly illustrated at YouTube on the internet.

                            Here's some Steffi:



                            But I'm still working from the 14 frames of the Barron's slicer, who's trying, I'm convinced, to hit exactly like Steffi.

                            And once he's lowered his racket to the canapes holding position the forward stroke beginning in a hurry won't travel very much to contact.

                            From canapes to contact what's the simultaneous motion happening then?

                            The body leans on the ball (vertical rotation).

                            The body turns into the ball (horizontal rotation).

                            The body puts scapular muscle on the ball.

                            The arm straightens into the ball (but wasn't very bent to start).

                            The arm rolls into the ball through a forward lowering of the elbow.

                            The front knee sinks somewhat into the shot.


                            From contact, the body stays parallel with the side fence until racket has finished its descent toward the target.

                            The racket then rises to right as body rotates in its two separate ways again.

                            The scapular retraction continues.

                            Note: It's easy to think that the ball is hit with the followthrough downward. It isn't. It's hit flat before that with the combination of forces just outlined.

                            It's important to keep the elbow in until the ball is struck.

                            Suggestion: Practice the tract from canapes to contact before adding the two legs of the followthrough.

                            Those again are 1) down and out toward the target and 2) up to right of target.

                            Note 2: At the 20 marker in the video here, it could be argued that Steffi doesn't reach full canape position, i.e., with strings completely open to sky like a tray. Think eight-iron here rather than pitching wedge.

                            Note 3: The rhythm of Steffi's shot is two parts not three-- back, forward with no transition. The slight lowering of the racket head as delay is part of the forward motion. It's not its own step.

                            Note 4: Now I see a jack-knife from the gut as well as a rolling forward of the shoulder at least in some of these Steffi-shots.
                            Last edited by bottle; 11-20-2011, 09:43 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Amplitude or Wimpitude?

                              So, are we going to hit this shot or wimp out at the attempt? I say play the slo-mo at marker 20 20 times.



                              There definitely is some rolling forward of the shoulders along with everything else.

                              Some pretty good instructors tell us that this lowering of hitting shoulder will lead to errors, but what if they just are saying that because Steffi is a woman? What if they're right, though? Don't do it then?

                              Jack-knifing from the gut occurs too. Precisely when? From contact, I'd say, and not before. From contact until downward leg of the followthrough is concluded.

                              Note how quickly and completely equilibrium is restored on upward leg of Steffi's followthrough.

                              Omigod, not until I write something do my real ideas begin. Following my own direction, at about the sixth viewing of the marker 20 slo-mo sequence, I finally realized that Steffi lowers her front shoulder in her backswing-- there's some design for you!

                              We could still call that move "digging," I suppose, or refer to rear shoulder for our cue instead, perhaps stating that rear shoulder rises like a wave.

                              If we do that, how about reassigning the verb form "digging" to the jack-knifing from contact?
                              Last edited by bottle; 11-22-2011, 10:26 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Quadruple-Dig, Dig, Dad?

                                Dig with front shoulder as part of the one-piece backswing.

                                Now comes the foreswing which we break down only for purposes of understanding after which we put the pieces back together and forget them.

                                It's something like cleaning an ancient, priceless chandelier. When the job is almost done, you say to your partner, "Let's not think about this," and you grab the chain with both hands, lift up over the railing and push the whole shebang out into the air of the bottomless stairwell.

                                Stilling the imagination, though hard, is possible, as your partner, with arms thrust through spokes of the banister to keep every crystal from contacting wood, wonders when she can let go.

                                What if the chain breaks or the ceiling fixture doesn't hold?

                                But if you can do that, if you can set the intact, gleaming chandelier out in mid-space so nothing moves, you can probably master the basics of the Steffi-Graf-Slice-Backhand.

                                First dig was in single piece backswing. Second, third and fourth digs are in the single piece foreswing. Second: The racket tip lowers while the hand stays at a single level in space, third: The elbow lowers forward to close the racket face, fourth: The upper body, from contact, jack-knifes a few inches to lower the shoulders and keep the strings on line and reduce sidespin in favor of pure backspin.
                                Last edited by bottle; 11-23-2011, 07:27 AM.

                                Comment

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