More on See See
The opportunity for keeping the straight inside out pathway of one's level section then lift of racket grows even longer if one is willing to step forward with one's rear foot as one produces the shot.
This is almost like an extra hip turn. So you get hips, shoulders, then more hips.
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A New Year's Serve
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The Mind Races ahead to Orchestration before the New Shot even is Worked into one's Game
Old age is not long enough for anything else. The new idea is incorporated into one's master plan-- an act of faith. Determination of whether the new shot is good, great or miserable can be temporarily delayed.
The see see, spin-off of the McEnrueful, is hit much the same way but with essential differences.
The see see, spin-off of one's waiting grip for topspin forehands, can be hit in the midst of a bunch of them.
Or can be hit in the midst of a bunch of McEnruefuls, thus deriving physicality from that trough.
One should happily seize the functional variety in this. (No, don't just hit the same old boring shot.)Last edited by bottle; 03-02-2018, 03:43 AM.
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Reconsideration of How of Grip Change
Wait a minute. The pitch on a see see with composite grip wasn't that bad. You changed grip to put more hand under racket-- that was the reason for the change. So follow up on that. Change grip by holding racket steady with left hand and put more right palm under the racket.
Compare now the aeronautical banking in a McEnrueful with that of the see see. In the McEnrueful the arm stays fixed. The AB (aeronautical banking) helps put a push on the ball.
In the see see one straightens the arm an extra amount as forward hips rotation lowers the shoulder. The hit then is comprised of careful arm lift and careful AB. Neither this AB or the arm lift should be fast.
Is one making good use of whatever speed the oncoming ball has? I think so.
The slow AB could be thought of as more of a device to keep the arm lift going to outside for longer.
Only great smoothness, deliberate, can accomplish this.
Such slowness indicates that the duration of the see see is greater than that of the McEnrueful.
Allow extra time therefore.
To summarize: The function of AB in the McEnrueful is to add push to the shot. The function of AB in the see see is to allow the racket rise to proceed on an inside out path for a long time thus creating a small range of good contact points rather than a one and only locus that is often impossible because too exact.
AB/UBR (upper bod rotation) also gets to go farther. Anything for a better percentage of success with this shot.Last edited by bottle; 03-02-2018, 03:48 AM.
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Multiplication of Options if one is a Believer in Multi-Grip Tennis and Capable of Transferring Thought from one Grip to Another
The word "capable" will carry too much judgment and personal opprobium for defensive souls to accept. So just leave them out of the present discussion and have it out on a self-feed court alone with oneself.
The goal as so often: the almost impossible see see or high short angle, not the same as a short angle forehand passing shot. That one barely clears the net and needn't be hit away from one's opponent.
But one can perhaps use the same grip, in my case a strong eastern or even mild semiwestern.
My yesterday's experiment was long arm composite grip with extra closing of racket best accomplished (I found) on the up of a down and up McEnrueful backswing.
The outcome of this was lifted stiff or barred arm with hand on top of racket: Who wants that?
Better just to keep arm barred but with a grip that puts hand UNDER the racket, which equals fewer moving parts in setting up the shot.
Maybe the answer will be a full western grip-- how can I know before I get to the court?
Whatever the grip, the shot will at first feel strange-- a shot with McEnrueful rhythm and mechanics but hit with a different grip. Along with extra straightening of the arm as forward hips rotation takes the hitting shoulder down.
Clearly, I have talked about this shot a lot. That is because all other self-feed experiments have led to some kind of accommodation, e.g., the serve isn't great but not horrible either. Only this shot, the see see, is the holdout.
Well, I would rather see the see see work than hear myself talk about it more.
Hence the thoughts above.
P.S. Today, I broke my usual rule, went to a coffee shop and then the self-feed court FIRST before I typed anything.
I ended the practice with nine see sees. Before that I alternated see sees with other shots.
Now I add to the concept. Let fingers adjust the racket to strong eastern grip-- racket to hand rather than hand to racket. Wrist to stay straight as in a composite grip McEnrueful. No further adjustment to racket pitch is necessary as racket goes down and up.
But rear shoulder goes down (in answer to forward hips rotation) while arm straightens an extra amount and thus gets racket lower than in a McEnrueful.
The barred arm now is a log, so I suppose one could ask, why not just get arm barred during the down and up?
I'll try that next time but right now think that would make the shot too awkward and mechanical for too long a time.
For now I prefer the organic backswing feel of a slightly bent arm going up.
Then rhythm for straightening arm as the shoulder drops down.
From there the shot IS mechanical: a straight armed bowl to front and side but all on the up and up.
There isn't any further lowering of the arm. One wouldn't want that.
Last edited by bottle; 02-28-2018, 08:35 AM.
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Orpheus Shot
I'm disappointed when I come up with a new shot to try-- something different from the shots I usually use-- then get to my self-feed court but forget, probably because I have too much else on my mind.
But a shot I definitely do have on my mind is a spin-off from my McEnrueful, which is the essence of solid connection between one's bod and one's arm.
Grip is composite, just a smidge to left of eastern forehand. The wrist however, which is imitation John McEnroe, is perfectly straight. There is no mondo or wrist layback early, late or a little at a time whatsoever.
Can and should one try topspin from this arrangement? Certainly. But where does such an idea come from?
From tennis players who have the gift of gab. Like Brent Abel who has worked with Doug King and Tom Stow.
Like most teaching pros, Brent Abel would like to sell you something. In the process-- I'm thinking primarily of his daily series on doubles on YouTube "What's the Right Shot?"-- he usually will say invaluable things before he comes to his pitch.
Invaluable because part of an articulated philosophy that is consistent and true.
For instance, that despite what everybody thinks, you can even hit topspin from a continental grip.
From a continental grip? That's to the left of my composite! So I surely can do it from my composite. And in fact remember one singles tournament opponent from long ago, John Miller of northwest Virginia, who passed me sensationally from a very low racket probably in a full continental grip.
The McEnrueful gets the racket low in a very solid way. The hips revolving forward lower the hitting shoulder behind them. Then comes some very aeronautical banking to keep one's arm and bod in the same rock solid connection.
Racket already is low. But now we'd like to produce a soft angle. So arm gets to take a solo. Another way of putting this is that elbow in the middle lifts upward thus taking both halves of set arm to either side with it.
Target is one of just above the net. One needn't aim far away from one's opponent.
Brent Abel is partial to multi-grip tennis. Preponderance of his forehands are eastern grip. For a high ball he will westernize a bit and use more wiper.
The provocative idea here is different means of producing topspin with milder grips. And with eastern grip-- this is my personal take-away-- one can either throw elbow or use the wiper but probably not both. And with a semiwestern use more wipe every time.
A perspective, isn't it? And not what you hear or read every day, the first tenet of which is eschew composite and continental grips as useless relics of the bygone past.
Balderdash.
Is the racket lowering from hips accompanied by any further adjustment? Seems likely.
Well this, my elusive see see, will be a difficult shot to master since racket and oncoming ball must intersect in front and out to side at the exact right moment.
The arm lift should be smooth, slow and confident rather than spasmodic.
Best ball will be of sufficient height to permit some racket lift both before and after contact.
The preparation must be sufficient to engender inside out pathway up to the ball.
Racket to scrape ball will go up the whole way. The sideways-ness of this will minimize any alteration of pitch as racket sweeps et pitch as it sweeps upward.
This is an Orpheus or Lott's Wife shot.
You can't look.Last edited by bottle; 02-28-2018, 08:03 AM.
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What Could be More Fun than...
A stroke idea that doesn't work one time but does appear to work the next time one tries it.
Today the courts were clear of snow and water for the first time in months.
The stroke idea was to put more of a serve behind one's neck. This idea comes from a reflection of "the serve doctor" or one of the serve doctors that an old-fashioned serve did just that...i.e, did it more than a modern serve does.
If that is true, more old-fashioned serves may be the way to go for a rotorded server, to compensate for the poor direction of spin generated by too short a runway.
I found myself serving a basket of balls out on a court with no net.
I think I began to come by the new idea there but didn't really get a feel for it until later when I was serving against a bangboard.
Funny how that can work. One gets a sense of the quality (or lack thereof) of one's spin from the way the ball ricochets off of the board.
The feeling was of body bend directing more to the side rather than back at rear fence.
The bend then became quite simply melded into the focused effort to put more of the service action behind one's neck.
These serves, tried before perhaps only once, didn't feel bad back then during service solitaire but felt weak in competitition and came apart and got clobbered.
Today they began to feel strong. I attribute this to body bend and upward racket path all being part of a blended effort to put more of the serve behind one's neck and back. One follows the single idea in this and goes relentlessly at it.
I think that horizontal rotation of the shoulders and what is commonly known as "cartwheel" are corollaries that vary to each other in inverse proportion.
Continuous experiment through variance of the proportion could produce some positive effect.Last edited by bottle; 02-25-2018, 03:02 PM.
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Originally posted by don_budge View Post
But the Straw Man has no limits in his quest for making a mockery of his "enemies". ****
This has nothing to do with being a good sport, but rather with how one prepares for a match which should not involve the other person or persons in any way.
In tennis I used to psych up for a match; in crew I always psyched down for a race.
In the Brown-Dartmouth race each year on the Seekonk or the Connecticut, we would go into a dark room to get psyched. The other seven and cox would psych up while I would have to psych down.
My friend would come back from a pee and report how big and green Dartmouth looked. My psychometer would soar through the roof. I'd have to get down on the floor and meditate.
But this business of "mockery" may be different, without demonization. It's all about the target. Is there pretension there? A balloon that needs puncture?
That is the only question.Last edited by bottle; 02-23-2018, 12:10 PM.
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Straw Man
Straw man occurs when someone argues that a person holds a view that is actually not what the other person believes. Instead, it is a distorted version of what the person believes.
But what if the other person shows no sign of knowing what he believes? I think that any reader unfortunate enough to be imprisoned in the same cell with such a tortured individual has a perfect right to take a guess. Some aggrieved victims of this process will actually then figure out what they think they believe, or at least come up with a more cogent view than they started out with.
Reporters or journalists learn many tricks of eliciting information. To see one do it well is awe-inspiring. I have great respect for great newspapermen, contrasted say with mein Donald who wouldn't know a good one if it came up and bit him in the ass.Last edited by bottle; 02-23-2018, 04:36 AM.
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Does Every Volleyer have to Emulate the Martinet posture of John McEnroe?
How about a slight hunch like Billie Jean King?
But not the completely bowed over shoulders of Rosemary Hawley.
The first time I saw women pros volley was during warmups at Rock Creek Park in D.C.
To me they looked like torpedoes their heads were so low.
So find the best setting right for you. Choice comes from exploring options.
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Fingers
I listened to 300 teaching pros speak about the volley. Only one, Dennis Ralston, spoke about the role of the fingers.
They spoke on TV, in websites, in person, from adjacent court overheard, in bars and coffee-houses-- what is the difference?
Some volleyers learn to block, Ralston indicated, but don't alter movement of the racket tip while doing so.
The fingers, specifically the bottom three, are feel. And best determiners of last-instant direction, according to Dennis.
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Lobs
I try to have the richest psychic life in tennis that is possible All the best tennis is played on a semi-conscious level so this makes sense.
And voices have been trying to speak to me, kids' voices. They want their lobs to be higher, like those of lob queens in their late 40's .
I don't know what to tell them other than to lob higher. And not to worry about hitting the lob over the opponents' heads. That will happen or it won't happen. The trick is to let most lobs produce an overhead. Let the other team hit the ball in other words.
If you try to make your lob too good you miss.Last edited by bottle; 02-23-2018, 05:54 AM.
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It's always about how wonderful mein Steve is, isn't it? Mein Steve will quote anyone who ever praised him on any subject, even 20 years later. I'm sure I've made the same mistake, but it's much better to let other people praise you-- if they want to-- while you stay out of it. This is how important new jobs, e.g., come to be. Better to have an agent even if it's a family member. Things happen when it's not you tooting your own horn.
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Originally posted by bottle View PostWhat would we do if we didn't have mein Steve to explain Roger Federer for us? We'd be at a loss, right? Why do we always have to have mein Steve with his big fat ego to intervene in our experience of Roger Federer?
Also mein Steve would achieve more editorial clarity if he could ever remember to correct the most common error in the English language. I got my form of the correction from the cover of a kid's book just right for mein Steve. Possessive its never splits.
And why does mein Steve feel the need to malign Geoffrey Williams from an exchange so long ago? I have come to appreciate Geoffrey Williams more and more-- not for his exchange with mein Steve on the subject of Bill Tilden but because he was one of the only forum members brave enough to confront mein Steve on his attitude toward women tennis players.
Lastly, I think that when you're maligning someone you should name him. To allude may be as bad as to collude.
This was a message that I received from another member back on April 4, 2011. The Straw Man chose to out the name of an individual that I chose not to...out of respect. But the Straw Man has no limits in his quest for making a mockery of his "enemies". Never mind that he fails and flails miserably. Remember...I was brand spanking new when this exchange took place.
Steve -- I agree with you that geoff williams' diatribe was uncalled for. I tried to stick up for you without making geoff williams become even more angry. I tried to strongly hint that you probably know what you are talking about when you discuss the serve, and when you teach the serve.
My heart goes out to you. In my opinion, **** ******* should have stepped in and chastised geoff williams. I tried to support you in a way to which geoff williams would not respond. Everything that you said to geoff williams in your response to him is 100% right. I hope that geoff williams just leaves you alone from now on. I hope that geoff williams might realize that he acted like a total jerk.
From what you say, I think that we agree. I am so sick of the myth that today's "modern game" is so great, so perfect. Good for you for analyzing one of today's top players & making appropriate suggestions for how he can improve. Soderling should give you some money to give him a serving lesson.
Sincerely, ****
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