Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A New Year's Serve

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Not Covering the Waterfront

    Insisting on one's self-interest has got to make common sense in the complicated subject of service motion. I may love the idea of turning shoulders both ways in rapid succession with palm down to activate a natural loop, but that's not what I'm doing at the moment nor am likely to resume except maybe for a trick serve here or there.

    My present iterations have to do with the consistency that comes from an easily repeated down and up motion. As Don Brosseau recently wrote in the Tilden thread:

    "My argument is that if you use the assistance of gravity, it can be a great help to your rhythm and therefore your consistency. I don't think it makes that much difference to the speed of the serve, but I feel not enough emphasis is placed on developing a motion that is repeatable and has a consistent rhythm...Now if you can synchronize the movement of the left hand with the right and gravity is determining the speed of the right hand, then gravity is determining the speed of the toss. That would be a pretty comfortable and consistent toss with a very consistent rhythm.

    "If someone has no problem making a consistent toss and their motion is working for them, but needs a little tweaking, I will leave their motion alone, but if they are having trouble getting a consistent toss, I know gravity works for everyone although it can be difficult to change a habit at first. I think too much emphasis is spent on trying to get that last ounce of explosion out of the leg drive, when it would be a whole lot more effective to serve 10 mph slower and get in 70% of first serves instead of 55% or 60% at the higher speed. Worse, the numbers are more like 40% to 50% for anyone below world class. And sometimes even world class players."

    Applied to me, that helps me self-authorize an extreme stance, i.e., with body and feet turned way around, and to start with a still racket pointing to right of net post so that there need be little or no backward body rotation.

    The hands drop and then go up. They drop together separating but there's sequence in a horse race from then on. Racket arm seems to be getting out ahead, next the tossing arm passes it, next the straight racket arm continues on its fifty-fifty path up and around during the upraised tossing-hand-to-tennis-shoe-body-bow, and here comes Beedlebom.

    Beedlebom could be one's bending of a conscious right angle into the arm at last just as weight settles nicely on the front foot. On the other hand, Roger Federer gets his arm bent earlier than that in more relaxed fashion, which leads to something resembling the slow top of a great golfer's backswing.

    The fast part of the serve then is not so much blast-off as release of archer's bow-- though that's only half of the muscle (am talking about myself here, don't know about Federer).

    The other half is hip-shoulder combo in which shoulders start behind the rotating hips but end up ahead of them-- a new horse race crossing the finish line.

    The wrist, forearm, elbow and upper arm children are to receive no tennis instruction in the hope that they will behave.

    Watching Gael Monfils defeat Andy Murray and Roger Federer back to back could make one ask, "In a serve where body doesn't rotate until the very end, could one be well advised to start with both feet together?"

    Comment


    • Tweaks to Strokes

      SERVE

      Someone else can try serving with both feet together like Gael Monfils. That he does it so well, however, demonstrates what? Some of the big, mind-clouding weight transfer from-back-to-front foot issues that tended to occupy us may not be as important, reader, as we thought.

      For several decades I've assumed that when the great tennis writer John M. Barnaby recommended opening out the racket at bottom of its drop, he meant either to change pitch or take the racket around body in level fashion sort of the way Marian Bartoli used to do. But now I'm bringing right shoulder-blade toward left as racket naturally drops. That doesn't interfere with toss but aligns rising hit elbow with bending of arm up to a right angle. (But sequential or simultaneous for this-- which is best?)

      1HTSBH

      One can keep things simple by turning left to go left, and then raise rear shoulder like a wave initiating the stroke. I choose to bend wrist inward as wave goes up, but then of course I have a continental grip. My point is that nothing else need alter in the arm-- neither its setting at elbow nor upper arm from shoulder joint. Shoulder surge is enough.

      To hit a larger backhand, however, one can add more coil in the arm as hips go out (staying parallel to sideline). Instructors have often spoken of body going one way as racket goes the other-- sometimes they've even said that one wants to press with shoulder to remove slack from arm.

      The very generous Geoffrey Williams, however, has offered an opposite idea in this forum. Yes, racket goes back in opposition to body but the hitting arm action is COIL not EXTENSION.

      FEDERFORE

      If late coil works on the backhand, why not on the forehand? My oppositional debaters have always been eager to explain to me that I am not Roger Federer (though we both have Swiss blood), and they are correct. Since I'm not Roger, however, I now wish to extend arm later than he for more of a sidearm throw. Shoulders can start forward while arm is still compressing in opposite direction. Arm throw can lengthen inside out tract, and shoulders chiming in again to follow arm thrust can lengthen this crucial inside-out tract still more before arm then starts to cross the body in a backward direction.
      Last edited by bottle; 11-16-2010, 06:46 AM.

      Comment


      • 1HTSBH Tweaks

        The act of stating any complex thought frequently startles one with repercussions. On backhand I've been playing with uncertainty over whether, on a large version of the stroke, squeezing arm ought to carry racket up even more from top of the rear shoulder wave before it drops down into the slot or furrow between waves.

        Instead, following Ralph W. Emerson's dictum "Simplify, simplify, simplify," I'm trying to A) squeeze arm along with wrist as shoulder wave goes up; or B) for an even bigger backhand, squeeze everything up and back at this time including the setting of the elbow. (In option "A" I'm keeping elbow still relative to body for more control.)

        In following either route, one may or may not bend arm even more as it and rear shoulder suck down. Either choice may lead to the classic backhand "sword-in-its-scabbard" image, with one difference being that one can hold on to racket throat for longer than in "remove the slack from the arm" backhands, thus building tension as racket butt spears out toward the left corner post of a secluded mountaintop court.

        One can make a sartorial and theatrical change for higher contacts by pulling the sword girdle up toward one's chest-- that or imagine oneself having done the same-- and one can then comfortably bend arm more, too.

        The new ideas here are not tried yet.

        Note 2: Shoulders can be level or slanted very slightly upward after the front hip or power pocket thrusts out. Some players then keep tilting front shoulder up more and more. Better for pace and control, I think, is to keep one setting as arm flies way out on a relatively low path with terrific extension led slightly by the wrist.
        Last edited by bottle; 11-17-2010, 07:36 AM.

        Comment


        • Toward Better Orchestration of 1HTSBH

          I was getting too complicated. I admit it. Here's my new three-backhands-only scheme.

          1) Turn shoulders; decide; lift rear shoulder and turn hand inward; stroke

          2) Turn shoulders; decide; lift rear shoulder and turn hand inward and bend elbow more; stroke

          3) Turn shoulders; decide; lift rear shoulder and turn hand inward and bend elbow more while lifting it an extra amount. The racket is now above shoulders in the middle of a bigger loop. But rhythm is the same.

          The most exciting additive in this option 3) will be now to have upper arm twist back more on a horizontal plane as hips go out toward net while staying parallel to sideline. Did you absorb that reader? I hope so but wouldn't be surprised if you didn't. The elbow goes UP first but then goes BACK in opposition to hips going FORWARD to generate a long power backhand with increased racket head speed. Stroke.

          If this one-hander were a bicycle, it would be a three-speed, meaning that I am going to choose one of three gears every time. Somebody else might choose one of ten. And somebody else might have an infinite number of sizes from which to choose-- a genius!

          Comment


          • Central Adjustment in any Serve

            A tennis serve is too fast for its adjustments; everything must have been thought through before.

            How else except through slow concentration are you going to find the perfect time, in a serve that stays tall before release of ball, for racket to drop to the right edge of the body?

            When you DON'T hit one of your best serves, it would be of extreme benefit to know whether your arm work was early or late.

            But one may not have a good measuring device handy, so let's pluck something dramatic from the whole motion-- release of the ball.

            Did arm already bend by this time? That was too soon? Did arm remain straight until just before the archer's bow released? That was too late?

            The easiest formula is toss with right arm straight, then bend it to a right angle in unison with compressing knees, which might work terrifically well despite being overly schematic.

            Regardless, it's a good place to start one's thinking, but if one's best serves are not then forthcoming, one must have the personal gumption to move the precise beginning of arm bend either forward or backward, probably just a little bit, and maybe even different amounts on different days.

            WHEN arm starts bending can affect the slowness of this motion very much, particularly if you're achieving right angle at same point as before.

            Slower seems the way to go with its opportunity for feel and better timing.

            Just slightly bending the arm before release of the ball is something to try.
            Last edited by bottle; 11-20-2010, 08:17 AM.

            Comment


            • Elbow Higher Sooner

              Why not slowly swoop elbow in straightened arm up to exactly where you want it, before the toss, and leave it there in fixed relation to the body throughout the most intense part of any serve?

              This seems easier than the alternatives. Sure, keeping elbow a bit lower and then letting it rise in response to gross body action works, but is this route 100 per cent consistent and foolproof? Maybe for you.

              Once one has decided on the high road, one may notice some interesting things. First, hand then goes up on bending elbow as bending body brings rear shoulder down, so that the two actions conceivably cancel each other out. Does that matter? Probably, although I would agree with somebody not to spend too much grey matter on this whether those cells are in the head or in the spine.

              Second, since elbow GOING UP is no longer part of the equation, the drop to right edge of body is simplified. One could then perhaps think about something idealistic yet almost impossible to nail down in hyper-speed, i.e., getting inverted racket aligned with edge of leftward leaning body for a second time (at contact).
              Last edited by bottle; 11-21-2010, 10:45 AM.

              Comment


              • The New Federfores: Car on Right Side Three-Quarters Upside Down

                How sensationalist of me to suggest a grisly car accident in the rain. Actually, reader, I'd just like to see your windshield wiper go up from left to right.

                My taking upper arm back an extra amount to counter beginning of forward shoulders rotation (only recently arrived at) occurs at the place where Roger does the exact same thing but with his HAND.

                Both actions depend on setting up a decent distance from the ball (i.e., don't crowd it). And both actions contain the design purpose of converting a straight ahead or even crossing stroke (think of a miserably sliced drive in golf) into something that is nicely inside-out.

                The inside-out element in golf so essential to a slight hook that makes the ball roll is not very great, i.e., it happens only in the area of the contact, and if exaggerated, spoils the smoothie you are trying to blend.

                The shoulders don't start then stop then start again all during forward swing as I briefly thought.

                The stroke is a big swipe, primarily horizontal, with all rotational elements combining in a roundhouse way generally thought of by teaching pros everywhere as unhealthy and ineffective.

                That would be so if not for the inside-out micro-swipe encrusted on this motion and so clearly illustrated in every one of the new 250/500 fps Federer forehand clips just put up here at Tennis Player.

                The shoulders turn forward but the hand takes the racket tip back farther...the two things don't cancel each other out-- they are not equal-- the hand takes racket tip farther back than shoulders take it forward.

                The racket tip gets around backwards to where it can swipe the ball in the inside-out direction. Such action is deliberate, pro-active and willful-- not passive or reactive. Counter the two pro-active moves against each other for more racket head speed but above all else to establish the inside-out racket tip alignment.

                The arm gets pretty straight-- more than I personally thought it ought to-- before upper body rotation starts.

                The phases are left-hand-pointing-at-right-fence-to-turn-body-backward while closing racket; extension of arm with no body rotations going on; body turns forward including the vertical one with leading pocket of shorts prying forward; second body turn stoppage after contact for arm to continue backward by itself.

                During extension of hitting arm upper bone COILS more, which also contributes to the possibility of a true inside-out swing.

                In these Federfores there is more long arm in sync with rotating body than previously thought (at least by this observer).

                One may also hit Federfores reasonably well by keeping or driving late bend into arm and throwing sidearm-- a different stroke within the same genre.

                But Roger's "modern retro," whether he wins or loses (which goes for us imitators, too), is the best world model for a forehand right now, unless like most tennis players you prefer to play your tennis or your baseball with a choked up bat.
                Last edited by bottle; 11-22-2010, 10:45 AM.

                Comment


                • Fixed Elbow Above Shoulder

                  I'd like to discuss a single detail in the newest splendid offering by gzhpcu .



                  The detail occurs in Rod Laver's serve, in which his elbow gets high early.

                  Next elbow goes down a little then up in linked, rhythmic and body driven action due to a firm connection between body and arm.

                  The thousands of servers fooling with elbow height at this point, i.e., are shifting elbow from shoulder joint upward, downward, or in any other direction are much less apt to derive this solid benefit built into Laver's and many other great serves.

                  Comment


                  • Kinetic Chain as Computer Virus

                    The kinetic chain is a computer virus designed to destroy your tennis strokes by slowing them down.

                    If I seem overly much to disparage the tried and true building block of a dozen different sports, then I give you your kinetic chain back only in lightning form.

                    If you can remember, Muhammad Ali would paralyze his opponent's arm with a jab. Then he would paralyze the other arm with a second jab. The third jab must have felt to him as if he was kicking the person's chin with the ball of one foot.
                    Last edited by bottle; 11-24-2010, 12:43 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Third of the Arch on the Toss

                      Build on toss down and up the net post, only on the "up" part squeeze left shoulder-blade toward right shoulder-blade by release.

                      Since raising then dropping of hands is going to start every serve, one has a unique opportunity to use gravity to the max to establish the two hand-speeds. A high drop is supposed to create rush but try it anyway.

                      The higher the hands rise to start, the more tract the racket has in which to accelerate at 32 feet per second per second. Let the left hand drop naturally and pause while racket dives and soars with all of this happening before you apply any muscle.

                      Now use controlled, classic up together form to release the ball only with the third of an arch described, i.e., left shoulder-blade squeezes toward right shoulder-blade. A rotorded player needing extra elbow height now has attained it, extremely early, by time of the ball release.

                      The hands thus will get into very interesting relation to one another. The tossing hand will enjoy a long rising tract from inside of left thigh to top of skull. The straight racket elbow will move at the exact same time a very small and therefore minimally disruptive amount to precisely desired height.

                      Now there truly won't be any rush as, simultaneous, 1) tossing hand continues and stays up, 2) body cocks into a longbow creating upper body tilt (as well as lower body tilt), 3) elbow solid with shoulder therefore has to naturally drop, 4) elbow cocks to a right angle, 5) right shoulder-blade squeezes toward left shoulder-blade.

                      One might call 5) the other half of an arch. Fortunately, though, life is not that simple. If it were, then all of us would be geese instead of just most of us. It is my theory that America became jealous of Polish and blonde jokes and so decided to turn itself into an American joke.

                      First shoulder-blade move was a third. Second shoulder-blade move was a third. Third third is when rib cage rolls up the front of body in response to thrust from leg.
                      Last edited by bottle; 11-24-2010, 07:43 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Gravity Section, Weight on Rear Foot, Body Tall

                        Hands naturally accelerate down and decelerate up to two specific arm positions-- left hand to inside of left thigh and right hand at end of a yardarm straight out from right shoulder and parallel to court.

                        But didn't I just use words similar to "down and up?" And didn't the left hand only go down and not come up? Please live with this, dear reader, i.e., take right arm for the description.

                        Now we're ready for a slight weight shift forward as left arm launches up to top of skull (release point) and right arm does a controlled but vigorous and borderline uncomfortable stretch from 0 up to 45 degrees. Why 45 degrees? Because any more than that would pinch upper arm toward head and reduce internal leverage altogether too much. And any less than 45 degrees wouldn't allow for the rotordedness of us 94.3 per cent of the serving populace.

                        Yes, I divined that figure through dark arts but am pretty sure that all tennis instruction is aimed at only five per cent of servers, the ones who can substantially twirl the upper arm bone in their rotator cuff a bit like Roddick or Sampras.

                        When you admit your rotordedness to a teaching pro he may say "There are compensations" but seldom tell you what they are. Well, sometimes, if he knows them.

                        My speculative idea is that, besides high elbow, longbow image and longbow philosophy could be the answer. One could, e.g., take first half of longbow cocking on toss and second half to complete the slow coil and settle, with this formulation to replace such earlier mental sequences as knee-bend then forward travel or forward travel then knee-bend.

                        Besides this, one's raising of toss arm above head can combine with upper body tilt, thus replacing the Kirsten Dunce movie admonition to "keep tossing arm up" with something more active and organic and fun, a full-bodied stretch of left arm straight up to the sky.

                        As front shoulder tilts up rear shoulder tilts down while hitting arm coils, with all arching of the upper BACK now thoroughly delayed and relegated to take place as part of UNARCHING of LONGBOW, i.e., straightening of the full bod.
                        Last edited by bottle; 11-26-2010, 02:31 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bottle View Post
                          The kinetic chain is a computer virus designed to destroy your tennis strokes by slowing them down.

                          If I seem overly much to disparage the tried and true building block of a dozen different sports, then I give you your kinetic chain back only in lightning form.

                          If you can remember, Muhammad Ali would paralyze his opponent's arm with a jab. Then he would paralyze the other arm with a second jab. The third jab must have felt to him as if he was kicking the person's chin with the ball of one foot.
                          Bottle,

                          I haven't had time to catch up with your thread since renewing my subscription, but once again we've both arrived at a similar conclusion. I was just describing how "too much kinetic chain" was messing up my serve.

                          A few months away from tennis allowed me to explore my serve with fresh senses. I made some big improvements in the process.

                          Comment


                          • If you look at the discussion of Roscoe Tanner's serve we are having, I think you will find an example of not too much kinetic chain. Simple, concerted and fast.

                            Comment


                            • Can't Get No Satisfaction

                              That's good. Will check it out. Thanks.

                              The search is on for a super-cue, something tangible to index a huge swatch of psycho-muscular circuitry.

                              Without talking about the slight difference among flat, topspin, slice, etc., I can assert a big difference among major iterations. In other words, the quested after super-cue will very likely be different for one iteration over another.

                              The present high arm early version, which I would like eventually to name "my serve," might reach its full potential through a focus on respective elbow positions in front of and behind one's eyes.

                              Thus, both elbows just reach same level at ball release, after which front elbow goes higher while rear elbow goes lower. Very quickly then rear elbow rotates in a couple of ways over front elbow. One wants to keep the two elbows far apart and solidly connected at least for a while.

                              Previously, I've spoken at length of "longbow," a very central image, but one which possibly now becomes educational and subordinated to the past.

                              Put another way, one thinks firm elbow separation or longbow but not both at the same time. One tries one cue then another and perhaps a third, fourth, fifth until one arrives at the fanny slap that makes the newborn baby sing.

                              All this is true, especially the part about never holding more than an idea or two in the mind at the same time.

                              So how about lifting the linked hands all the way up over the left shoulder to start? Or if for any reason one doesn't like that, how about a little muscular straightening from the elbow to assist the gravity drop?

                              Here's the lucubration behind such contemplations: to do away with the old down together up together feeling, which involves (perhaps!) unnecessary effort. I'd like the tossing arm to launch, and that does require smooth exertion, but I'd like to see the racket elbow attain the same height at the exact same moment with little or no effort.

                              Good thing there's an "Edit" button here. Rear elbow level with front hand at release is the goal.
                              Last edited by bottle; 11-27-2010, 08:01 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Reinforcing a Toss

                                Met a man in a bar who complained that his toss might go high enough in the early part of a match but not by the end.

                                Regardless of whether this is a mental or physical problem, some extra body assistance wouldn't hurt, and longbow method can provide it.

                                The learning narrative I have gradually been building has taken hitting elbow higher and higher as part of a drop morphing into a swoop.

                                If a totally relaxed arm and racket creates natural acceleration downward, the same formula could use gravity for deceleration upward.

                                It all might work to create a perfectly natural pause at just the right place like a perfect top to the backswing in golf-- but if this goal is too utopian, a small bit of muscular force to take hitting arm up the final bit of tract might still be necessary.

                                The tossing arm now is ready to chime in, but should it go up from shoulder only as both shoulders remain level, with the tilting of them to come afterward? Or could all of this happen at once with the tilting itself contributing to firmness of the toss? And if so, should there be sequence in the different functions or should it all be simultaneous?

                                How does the body like to wriggle anyway, and at what speed and from which end to begin-- or should the beginning come from one's belt? And why shouldn't body bend when raising front shoulder not be part of the pre-release as well as the post-release and with all of it working together?

                                Comment

                                Who's Online

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 7741 users online. 4 members and 7737 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 139,261 at 09:55 PM on 08-18-2024.

                                Working...
                                X