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A New Year's Serve

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  • bottle
    replied
    I need Hedy Lamarr to tell me how to upload a serving video to my computer from my phone via Bluetooth (which she apparently invented), but she is dead. (https://www.google.com/search?q=hedy...hrome&ie=UTF-8)
    Last edited by bottle; 08-29-2018, 01:49 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    To the Court

    Djokovic is playing his first round match. Is watching that what I really want to do? No, better to go to the court. Don't want to find myself serving tomorrow with a motion I haven't even tried.

    But don't think I'll take my tripod with me. I'll save any filming for a couple of days.

    Lessons or tennis tips emerging from this session:

    1) Toss twice as high

    2) Stick with everything. You'll succeed at last.

    3) Film later.

    And had plenty of time to watch the match thanks to the Hungarian winning the second set.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    My New Serve, which I Haven't Tried yet, will be like the Cog Railway on the southern side of Ootycamund.

    The train goes this way, then that way, in rhythmic traverses to take its passengers down a huge cliff into the seething humanity of India.

    I almost did hit this serve yesterday, out of frustration with my trick shoulder, which for eight decades has condemned my serving to be a low elbow circular affair.

    But these few attempts yesterday had not yet busted loose from down together syndrome.

    The two hands did go down together. But they won't stop together any more. The toss arm will stop while the hit arm passes it by, only to reverse and come back at it then continue up using big joints to the full as toss arm goes up too.

    Then, to top all, I will have saved backward bod rotation. Performing it now will keep the toss arm up. I expect the zing of a good topspin serve.

    4414-- a special number.
    Nope, didn't know myself. Coyote and the road-runner once again. Result: low elbow serves. Next experiment. Hands go down together and slightly split to designated spots. The speed at which they go down is irrelevant so long as it's plenty slow.

    Now the hit arm slowly rises while pointing all the while at the net. The elbow MUST get high this way-- no? One tosses with full vigor as elbow is near its apogee.

    Relaxed, the hit arm bends slowly as toss arm finally heaves the ball up to a level twice as high as usual. Relaxation and full vigor, simultaneous-- quite the challenge. Now the toss shoulder is high, which means the elbow came down, but still is high relative to the hitting shoulder, i.e., didn't give up an inch of its high position.

    From slightly bent arm you start the fast part of the serve. That means more bending along with twisting of that arm and all of it fast. The exhalation or shriek you make is simultaneous with the triceptic extension, which again is as fast as you can make it. But slant of the shoulders meanwhile has reversed. In a classical serve rather than a bunny hop, this reversal of slant, I would submit, comes from right leg screwing up on its toes as front leg and whole left side stiffens while staying in contact with the ground.

    Note: Designated spot for hit hand when both arms have dropped is out toward the net thus giving it a head start on its upward travel. But, of course, and we're trying to be truthful here, when you factor in bod rotation, the rising racket ends up pointing to the right, say, in rough direction of the netpost.

    Note 2, appended later: If "the speed at which they (the hands) go down is irrelevant," why drop them very much at all? One can use the same rocking (if one rocks) but just reduce the hand motion to a small waggle, vertical. In fact, I think (although everything as always will have to be worked out), the two hands can remain linked through first part of backward bod rotation before the hand with the racket in it takes off. The two hands falling together could equal the two hands rotating together-- the two distances could be the same.
    Last edited by bottle; 08-28-2018, 10:01 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    My New Serve, which I Haven't Tried yet, will be like the Cog Railway on the southern side of Ootycamund.

    The train goes this way, then that way, in rhythmic traverses to take its passengers down a huge cliff into the seething humanity of India.

    I almost did hit this serve yesterday, out of frustration with my trick shoulder, which for eight decades has condemned my serving to be a low elbow circular affair.

    But these few attempts yesterday had not yet busted loose from down together syndrome.

    The two hands did go down together. But they won't stop together any more. The toss arm will stop while the hit arm passes it by, only to reverse and come back at it then continue up using big joints to the full as toss arm goes up too.

    Then, to top all, I will have saved backward bod rotation. Performing it now will keep the toss arm up. I expect the zing of a good topspin serve.

    4414-- a special number.
    Last edited by bottle; 08-27-2018, 12:31 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    The Best Tip on Serving Ever: "Record yourself." Combine it with "Know thyself?"

    If I had trouble learning to press the red button on my phone, you can imagine that some time still could pass before I succeed in posting one of my videos in this thread.

    I have a Moto z2 Play phone. Some of the commentary I've read on that phone suggests that moving a video to YouTube could be tough. I shall persevere. It's just that I'm devoting any spare time I have right now to upgrading my serve by myself and doing it my way.

    Which means getting my elbow as high as the elbows in the Tennis Player TED or Triceps Extension Drill in this Chris Lewit article:

    (https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._the_kick.html)

    The racket is positioned in buttscratch position, the arm and racket held all the way down. The elbow points at the sky.

    This is where I fail in my serve no matter what motion I adopt or invent (and I have tried many).

    The videos I'm making are clear demonstration that when I think I'm raising the elbow, I'm leaving it where it was or even lowering it.

    Regardless, my available length of runway is short, and the speed of whatever upwardness of spin I achieve is nothing to write home about.

    To put myself in a posture line right now, my shoulders are not square. My right shoulder slopes lower than my left. The shoulder housing is lapsed. I was born that way. The housing is more flexible than most but weaker, too, more loosey-goosey, but I am not at 78 years of age about to start serving with my left arm.

    What have I learned, or if not learned, theorized?

    That when elbow does get up to where it ought to be, it gets there slowly and with backward motion that in no way will contribute by itself to racket head speed.

    So I set up my tripod and record my serves. Then I take a selfie of myself reflecting on how the serves came out.

    They were low elbow serves once again.

    Result: Frustration with a capital "F." Well, can I use it? Andy Roddick, the kid, used his frustration to come up with the serve he did.

    What I tried after two separate filming and immediate film watching sessions right on the court today: Hands fall together. There is the hint of a pause, of dead stick from billiards down there.

    Middle finger now takes crumpling arm straight up with elbow rotating up and over all the way.

    The serves seemed better. But I only tried this after the filming was done. Will compete with the crumpled pattern tomorrow. And record again.
    Last edited by bottle; 08-26-2018, 11:45 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Throwing the Dice on Centrifugated Drives

    Forehand: Upper body turn becomes what remains of my old unit turn which wound my hips backward too soon. Arm takes about six inches of independent motion at the same time.

    Backhand: One starts from forehand grip. Flying grip change then is fairly low, creating racket head momentum toward outside height before that height is attained. Upper body turn has again replaced old unit turn or become the new unit turn.

    Foot motion was worked out before. Thinking about that right now would be a mistake.

    This however can be stated: Open one-hand backhands along with the more common neutral and closed variations now become easier to achieve. The outgoing shot path from these one-handers tends to be naturally high with ball likely to plunge and bounce high again. The shot is beautiful enough so that if one only hits it once in a match, somebody might comment, thus reminding you that you hit it, and if you hit it once you can hit it twice.

    Note; My thumb is neither wrapped nor extended up big flat section of the handle. It is extended but on a diagonal, with its tip bracing the lower pointy ridge.

    The subject of how a fast forehand is braced should be similarly discussed. Extended forefinger looks vulnerable, but central force is absorbed longitudinally by rod of arm (the forearm), which is pointed ahead and shoving toward the net and beyond.

    If centrifugal force is like a Christmas gift to an old player it should be a gift of effortless added power for any player. One simply needs to synch reversing and continuous hip rotations with arm work happening then.
    Last edited by bottle; 08-26-2018, 10:49 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    More than just "Interesting."

    There is a chance that this is an example of one of the best tennis lessons ever.



    On the other hand, Mencinger is arguing, "Do exactly as I say." I can remember Vic Braden saying the same thing. And then changing all of his ideas on the subject, whatever it was, ten years later.

    But you can sense Mencinger improvising here, not sticking too closely with the lesson plan when he comes up with the comment about his student's head. And even the first thing, where the student straightens his arm unbidden, might lead some teachers to forget the lesson plan, to take everything in a new direction.

    Every teacher makes this kind of decision a hundred times a day, and I certainly admire the way Mencinger insists on his focus for both teacher and pupil. But I could understand another teacher going in a different direction, too-- abandoning everything.

    Most lesson plans, though not Mencinger's, are carried out with Gallwey's "10-cent computer" as opposed to the billion dollar computer we all have under the other one and behind it. One can get into the good computer unexpectedly sometime if one is willing to improvise.
    Last edited by bottle; 08-24-2018, 03:41 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Good Sense

    https://www.feeltennis.net/advanced-topspin-technique/


    But add Mencinger's outside inside straight use of centrifugal force too. You delay backward hips turn in the unit turn, I would argue. You get the arm going during unit turn also. (How can you centrifugate something that isn't already moving?) And lighten grip almost to a fantastic point. Forefinger up and around handle (one purchase point in grip. The other can be thumb locked on middle finger. The bottom two fingers can actually be off of the racket. Get the outside racket path going in conjunction with backward hip rotation. Get the inside circular path along with arm straightening a-going with forward hip rotation. Then drive racket straight for direction and dwell as flipped wrist gives still more during contact (i.e., bounces back and replaces like synthetic strings).

    But one can also use the newly defined pressure points in grip for short angled topspin off of a short, soft ball. I suggest waiting for a fairly high bounce from the oncoming shot. And starting a slow wipe from early coin like flip. (You drop the racket edge, not its face.) Everybody thinks their windshield wiper ought to be adjusted to its fastest setting. Wrong. There's just some mist and a few droplets on the glass.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Originally posted by stotty View Post

    Newcombe's is one of my favourite serves from the classic era. It always looks like his racket arm is moving quicker than the ball toss arm, certainly during the later years of his career, though not in his earlier years. Usually with this kind of feature it's the other way around; the tossing arm goes up at 4mph and the racket arm moves at 2mph. With this method we nearly always get sloping shoulders...with the left shoulder (assume righty) higher than the right around the trophy position.

    Anyway I just love the way Newcombe's serve synchs into place.
    I've been trying to use him (Newcombe) as an antidote to chronically low elbow when I serve. But my camcorder doesn't lie. No matter how high I lift my arm before it bends and drops, I end up with elbow low and coming too much around the right side of my body.

    The only time I succeed in throwing with elbow properly high is when I do figure eights. So building on those figure eights now becomes my big order.

    Did I mention that I have a trick shoulder? No? Probably just as well.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    What Happened, I Think

    As you riffle its pages, John Newcombe's serve comes alive. John's arms go down together but his toss arm pauses with ball near his thigh. Hit arm meanwhile rises to yardarm position. The two arms then rise together in the toss.
    Newcombe's is one of my favourite serves from the classic era. It always looks like his racket arm is moving quicker than the ball toss arm, certainly during the later years of his career, though not in his earlier years. Usually with this kind of feature it's the other way around; the tossing arm goes up at 4mph and the racket arm moves at 2mph. With this method we nearly always get sloping shoulders...with the left shoulder (assume righty) higher than the right around the trophy position.

    Anyway I just love the way Newcombe's serve synchs into place.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Why does Tomaz Mencinger Revise the Unit Turn to Upper Bod Turn?

    Because he's saving backward turn of the hips for something more interesting.

    The hips combine their late start with change of direction to centrifugate the racket.

    Well, we can come now to my early separation of the hands. How can one centrifugate something if one doesn't get it going first? Right hand can lead the backward turn. I prefer to keep arm bent just then. Speed of this outwardly directed action will determine height of one's loop. What happens if this initial move goes an inch? A foot? Two feet?

    Next up: middle finger serves.


    Last edited by bottle; 08-23-2018, 03:45 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    What Happened, I Think

    After a lifetime of low toss serving, I was greatly influenced by the Feel Tennis YouTube where Tomaz Mencinger addresses that problem.

    Now, at last, my tosses were up where they should be. Added force came from the muscles between shoulder and hip. A small pause or Zenlike gathering of resources, energy or intention at the bottom of the toss downswing also helped.

    What I didn't account for was, that, the other arm in a down together up together motion would mimic the same pause and thus become miserably late resulting in a cramped, low elbow serve.

    This problem, recidivism surely since I must have gone beyond it, emerged when I recorded myself for the first time. That made me more nervous than pressure in a good match. I had recently held serve at love when I really needed something like that.

    But then of course the first time I tried to record myself on court I didn't know I was supposed to push the red button and lost the whole session. I had recorded for a few seconds in a coffee shop somehow without pushing the red button. More confusion.

    Fortunately I own the famous "Arco book," play better tennis, copyright 1971 .

    It hasn't fallen apart. As you riffle its pages, John Newcombe's serve comes alive. John's arms go down together but his toss arm pauses with ball near his thigh. Hit arm meanwhile rises to yardarm position. The two arms then rise together in the toss.

    Works. Will record again and keep going (play, record, self-feed, play, record etc.).

    Alternatively, if one doesn't like the toss arm pause, one can send hit arm down per gravity and when it naturally starts up, downswing and toss. The two arms will once again get together and rise in the toss.


    Last edited by bottle; 08-23-2018, 03:21 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Middle Finger Forehands

    They sound disrespectful but really are just good rolled forehands in the Doug King way, which may have been undervalued by other teaching pros for a long time-- until now. Tomaz Mencinger has, in my view, elaborated on the basic Doug King idea of coming with your hand to the backside of a beach ball or medicine ball and then rolling it straight forward. Mencinger teaches a flourish as hand reaches the top of the ball. But the two things, the compression of the TENNIS ball from slightly below its equator ("hit the ball in the seat of its pants"-- John M. Barnaby would instruct young kids) and the flourish of fingers are so close together as to be almost simultaneous.

    In the free Mencinger video where Tomaz is working with his nephew, they both use bare hand to push a tennis ball toward the other along a bench. The working idea is to first compress ball straight down through your palm with body weight, then roll ball from its top.

    When this gets translated to a forehand, the tennis ball gets compressed from just below its middle and then rolled up back and slightly over top.

    The whole thing is predicated on the loosest of possible grips. Finger pressure may be saved for volleys, slices, chops-- control rather than "let go" shots. (I'd like to have my whole hand on the racket for them.) But for these rolled rather than wipered forehands I now steal Mencinger's forefinger up and around the bottom of the handle as one pivot point and thumb locked on middle finger thus forming a thin ring around the handle as the other.

    That leaves bottom two fingers to come completely off the racket if you want.

    When you combine all this with Mencinger's "universal stroke pattern" (outside, inside and straight), and Halep-like conservative edge down rather than Federer's face down flip, the relaxed wrist is laid back to its natural resistance point in plenty of time.

    And during the contact, forearm muscles will allow the racket tip (or forefinger) to spring both ways much like elastic strings that increase power and dwell.

    Very solid forehands become quickly apparent. But will the two new pivot points on the handle work to produce wipered forehands, too? I think so although I haven't learned that to my satisfaction yet.
    Last edited by bottle; 08-23-2018, 02:32 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    Why I stopped thinking that Tripod was the name of a racehorse owned by the father of someone I know.

    We write something-- that is the time we actually learn something about writing-- i.e., after the thing is written.

    We do something: Buy a tripod for our phone, then learn afterward why we did it.

    Not to study fine points in one's serve but for the initial shock of seeing oneself serving.
    So I sent this to my friend Bill, stroke and captain of the Brown Cinderella Crew, and organizer of the first truly national collegiate modern day male rowing championship race. For a number of years this big race, which has continued in other venues, was held on Harsha Lake in Cincinnati. Before Cincinnati, Harvard and Yale were holdouts because of their traditional race the same day in New London, Connecticut. All rowing traditions persist but now Harvard and Yale compete in the Intercollegiate Rowing Association Championships as well as on the Thames River in Connecticut, just some weeks later. My friend Bill brought about the needed change along with the help of Harry Parker, Harvard's late head coach, and Steve Gladstone, now Yale's head coach.

    I won't report everything Bill said, just this part: "Bot, indeed Tripod was my mother's nickname for her horse with a lame leg she rescued from the track..."

    Note how a friend doesn't blame you for something you got a little bit wrong. And how reality is never exactly what you thought.
    Last edited by bottle; 08-21-2018, 06:37 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Why I stopped thinking that Tripod was the name of a racehorse owned by the father of someone I know.

    We write something-- that is the time we actually learn something about writing-- i.e., after the thing is written.

    We do something: Buy a tripod for our phone, then learn afterward why we did it.

    Not to study fine points in one's serve but for the initial shock of seeing oneself serving.

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