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  • Originally posted by bottle View Post
    One Shot at the Ellie-bam: The Weight is Where the Elbow is
    Forget, for the sake of argument, every other detail of the just outlined shot. It was a feel of bod turning while right-angled arm independenly keyed back that distinguished this one shot from all other tries at the same shot in one day.
    I've found a great new barbershop where all anybody talks about is sports. I was talking about getting addicted to one great shot that one might have hit, how one wants to own the shot and be able to repeat it at will, and how one goes to extreme lengths to try and figure it out and overthinks with bad result. I think it was I who said all of that but maybe some of it came from Dave, the head barber at the next chair, who asserted that the exact same thing happens in golf.

    I enjoy sports discussions like this, get off on them, you might say. And don't think ANYBODY should ever be excluded from the big conversation. Not if you as listener are always eager for a golden nugget or kernel of corn. How are you going to know a great tip before you hear it? Maybe life ought to be a fishing expedition. Poor little fishies.

    Anyway, there are some like me who want to hear anyone's thought or observation and others who couldn't care less. I think you have to be determined and patient enough to listen to stupid as well as brilliant stuff. It usually comes out in a mix-- why not withhold judgment and sort things out later?

    About my evolving Ellie-bam, I think it might be helpful to define "backswing" as the keying around of right angled forearm parallel to the court with elbow brushing one's erect trunk. If one has accepted this beginning form over old saws about elbow being a ball can's width away from bod, etc., etc., a next logical question might be how far racket should travel due to this little motion alone. In one of his recent TurboTennis articles about overdogs, USPTR wag Ron Waite suggested that due to modern racket technology, one should try a six-inch backswing in one's forehand.

    Was he talking about the same backswing that I am discussing here? Very doubtful. Nevertheless, three to six inches sounds very good so long as you don't get overly technical and ask whether the measurement is at racket tip or somewhere else. Try minimized backswing with maximized turn of shoulders with these two things simultaneous in other words.
    Last edited by bottle; 08-04-2017, 12:00 PM.

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    • The Real Threat of Becoming too Sensible as you get Older

      Sensible in doubles is a pair of kick serves, first and second. But if your age bracket is seniors to the third power, and you've played tennis for a significant portion of your life, perhaps you have a topspin serve and maybe even a kick serve with neither being sufficiently crisp and offensive. (Yes, offend, OFFEND! With your serves and at the net. Make your opponents think about you, constantly. But just do it in tennis, not in life or politics.)

      Okay, so there is a famous Civil War cannon at Rouge Park where I do my self-feed, and when I was younger I had a cannonball serve. Time to bring it back.

      Chris Lewit is always very interesting on the subject of disguise in the game. He points out that with a curving toss from player's right to left the opponent can't tell whether ball is over the server's head (kick) or a foot or two out front toward him the opponent (flat) due to lack of depth perception caused by where the opponent stands.

      Hmmm, toss a foot or two in front. That could take some re-tooling. Used to do it, but the emphasis has been on tosses directly overhead for a long time.

      A very old player needs a surprise cannon to mix things up.
      Last edited by bottle; 08-04-2017, 09:09 PM.

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      • Three 1 2-3 Rhythm Forehands

        A) Left hand on racket helps turn bod but continues to do so through separation of hands half way up a path to outside. The hands scatter like a gently tossed pair of stones out in the slot. Both arms are nearly straight. The one count of this single motion could be called slow or fast so call it fast. You can't get racket into position fast enough. Did elbow go up? Some-- a medium amount. Did racket tip roll independently up? Some. Could one hold this achieved position while waiting for a slow ball? Yes, and better to have time to spare. (End of count one.)

        Count two is fall of hand and racket butt and elbow. Count three begins with arm and bod getting solid along with mondo (flip). When elbow dropped it had to come in. So while bod takes racket to ball elbow goes out that same amount to restore one's original perception of aim. Once ball is hit wrist straightens and elbow straightens a bit from where it was (already was quite straight).

        In this form a lot of the great arm extension was established early as racket was going back and up to outside. Also, the breast stroke of many other forehands has been modified. Straight left arm crosses in front of body the same way "to smooth the waters" but right arm doesn't correspondingly go back, instead drops down.

        B) Elbow tucks into side before commencement of the shot starting with whole arm assuming the shape of a right angle. Posture is erect for all three of these forehands. Grip this time is composite rather than strong eastern with wrist kept straight at all times.

        Left hand stays on racket for part of bod turn but continues to add to bod turn as it goes out, this time toward right net post instead of sideways at right fence. The severely restricted racket tip meanwhile keys back no more than three or six inches. (End of count one.)

        Racket keys forward a few inches (count two). Arm extends from shoulder and elbow as dance step pivot of hips occurs to effect full weight transfer from one foot to the other. Arm re-bends at end of this transfer. (End of count three and the stroke.)

        C) Strings present out front to ball (count one). Bottom three fingers exert pressure on handle (count two). Oncoming ball collides with strings and rebounds over net (count three).

        Note: Some version of forehand A and forehand C is absolutely essential. Forehand B is optional.
        Last edited by bottle; 08-07-2017, 03:40 AM.

        Comment


        • The two things we notice about George Lott is that on his his serve he hits he ball at he apex of his ball toss...and he's quick.

          His motion is also fluid and beautiful and as good as you will see. I imported the clip to my Analyzr Pro and slowed the serve right down. Lott's racket drop is superb.

          He also keeps the racket head up as he punches through and nails that volley.

          Last edited by stotty; 08-06-2017, 01:22 PM.
          Stotty

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          • All good...

            Comment


            • Next to Try, in Pursuit of Ellie-bam

              Only key right-angled arm backward, never key it forward. When you (I) used to key it forward, the purpose was to find the setting where bod pivot could best chime in. The goal was the same if one chose to use a difficult pencil-thin loop like Ellsworth Vines himself.

              Now, simply find this ideal setting straight off. Seek it in tiny increments. Key racket tip back one inch, then 23456789 . Somewhere in there is the ideal, which will be different for differently aimed shots. The shoulders of course are winding powerfully back no matter what the setting within that wind is going to be.

              Part Two of this Plot

              Am committed to 1 2-3 rhythm on every forehand. Need a new "2" therefore since the previous "2" was to key forward. We (I) substitute a firming up of last three fingers of hand (middle, ring and pinkie). We bring this method over from the 1 2-3 rhythm used to block an overly fast oncoming ball thus robbing its speed, viz., present strings, squeeze the three fingers, positively enjoy the immediate collision.

              In the Ellie-bam, we firm up the ideal setting the exact same way but become a pro-active glider rather than a gleefully passive and firm counter-punching person.

              Pivot is a swim, a sweep, a male swoop, a dance-like rotation of the hips, a slo-mo pressing with the racket, a crossing of the bridge from one perfect balance point to another.

              Chris Lewit has stated in THE TENNIS TECHNIQUE BIBLE that he won't teach this kind of flat shot. Me, I will try. Or if I can't successfully teach it, I will happily use it.

              Occasionally. Not all the time.

              When I play billiards, there is no hesitation between drawing stick backward and smoothing it forward. This new method, however is indeed Steve Mizerak's "dead stick," thus opening a new challenge and giving a person from other frames of reference a lot to learn.

              First revision: Use dead beat of dead stick to adjust three-finger pressure on handle, making it heavier, lighter or keeping it the same. This pressure is always changing anyway. But what the pressure is at the start will affect the rest.
              Last edited by bottle; 08-07-2017, 03:46 AM.

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              • Report

                The first idea of 3726 did not work well in doubles today. One could wait a couple of months for it to work, I suppose, but I choose more tinkering with the same basic form instead-- a hobby of mine. I think I do want want "keying" forward of the right angled arm before hips pivot chimes in since that pattern had been working pretty well. So how to save time to implement this in 1 2-3 rhythm becomes the challenge.

                Fortunately, other strokes, including some new ones, did work, so didn't have a bad day. Was talking with a friend between games. We agreed that tennis is a great overload of information. I told how top level coaches try to remove the weight of information altogether and teach their players just to react.

                Yeah, but somebody (the player, his second coach, his grandfather-- somebody) initially had to have done some figuring out, with this involving information-- great gobs of it.

                In questing after the Ellie-bam, I should take into account that Ellsworth Vines probably used a club much heavier than mine. Also, that I want the shot for seniors-to-the-third-power doubles. And all takebacks in doubles should be abbreviated except when you're hitting from near the baseline-- at least that is the word in PLAYING TENNIS AFTER 50 by Kathy and Ron Woods.

                Peter Burwash would like to see a lot more blocked shots in any kind of tennis, singles or doubles and at any age. It makes no sense to always take a big cut at the ball especially when a hard hit ball comes straight at you. The most sensible thing to do is abbreviate and just redirect the oncoming speed to your own advantage. Then when you get a slow ball you can wind up more if you want to. Or hit a chopper or a drop shot. Blocking philosophy did work well for me today.

                "Move your feet," my friend said to me. "My God," I said. "I told you that on Friday and forgot it myself over the weekend." He agreed that that's how things go. The advice concerned hip openers and vertical bounces during dead time on the court.

                Note: The first idea for expediting the right angled arm thing has come to me now while writing this post. How much time does it take to set up an almost completely straight-armed preparation up and out to side in the slot? Not much. So one could, using composite grip, straight wrist and a small turtle shell loop, bring elbow up and down into the side in the exact same time. A bit of keying back can be part of this mix. Almost as if you are describing or drawing a comma.
                Last edited by bottle; 08-08-2017, 07:42 AM.

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                • Practice the Block

                  Don't let it be a conceptual thing. The next time you have a hit, especially with a hard hitter, block all of his shots, every single one. This will arouse much attention but that is the price. How else are you going to make your block committed and automatic?

                  Present strings to ball. Squeeze bottom three fingers. BANG!

                  1 2-3 .

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                  • All Scientists are Mad Scientists

                    This seems a horrid statement, a reinforcement of the Sivana stereotype in Captain Marvel comic books.

                    Actually, though, this assertion of madness carries respect for the scientist's belief in his present experiment even though he most probably will change his mind about it later.

                    I'm back to my 15-year-old's forehand, the one I taught myself with help from no one.

                    The elbow is out a bit to allow for more sensible shots. But here comes the crazy command. The racket whirls around and down. This presses elbow into one's side.

                    That is count 1 in 1 2-3 . Always the rhythm is 1 2-3 no matter which the forehand.

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                    • My Cue for the ATP3 Forehand

                      If John Yandell's forehand (furniture 9 in https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._lag_and_snap/ ) is ATP3, there is a down and up to it. But on the down the elbow comes in. On the up the elbow goes out. A little. A little.

                      So that is the cue I now choose, maybe just for today. In and out with the elbow.

                      The in will take the elbow down. The out will take it up. The bod will drive the stroke.
                      Last edited by bottle; 08-08-2017, 03:11 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Did You Notice? Well, Did You?

                        As John Newcomb might say, "Didn't think so."

                        I refer to the difference between Cageman's forehand, as TennisPlayer opens up, and the forehand in furniture 9 of this article, at the end (https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._lag_and_snap/).

                        Just a little change, one might argue, but wait a minute, a little change in tennis may be huge.

                        The new forehand is similar to that taught by Chris Lewit in THE TENNIS TECHNIQUE BIBLE with the difference that high wait position (the place where you wait if you have time to spare-- which happens sometime though rarely) occurs with the two hands already separated.

                        But the two arms are similarly straight, not completely but almost.

                        And that is the real difference between furniture 9 and the ATP3 as it has been taught. Straightening of the arm occurred as part of count one not count two in 1 2-3 rhythm.

                        This is logical improvement over Cageman and for that matter Roger Federer too.

                        WHAT!? AN IMPROVEMENT ON FED! THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE! FOR HE IS ALREADY PERF, I MEAN PERFECT!

                        "Don't look for logic in tennis," Jim Courier famously said.

                        Okay, I won't. I'll look for logic in logic. And a tennis stroke is easier to get off when there is one less thing to do thanks to already having gotten it out of the way.

                        Left hand on racket helps turn the bod and continues to do so as left hand separates and points at the right fence.

                        The two hands separate and hover on long arms like a pair of gently released birds.

                        Comment


                        • GREAT EXTENSION

                          Less push in all forehands, back to the example of The Beasley-bam to spark up the Ellie-bam, more sideways pull of hand in all forehands.

                          Most analysts seem happy with the expression "great extension." Not I.

                          An abundance of ways to achieve extension makes the two words vague. Are you going to push the arm gradually throughout the stroke from elbow and shoulder? That would be "extension." So would be pushing from shoulder but not elbow.

                          Are you not going to push at all but rather swing with big separation of racket from bod? Great extension for sure.

                          And, while we are asking difficult questions, are arm and bod going to be a solid unit at contact?

                          We know that practice provides power. But could we add to it by doing something with arm? Not pushing arm straight ahead-- a good way to REDUCE racket head speed. But if we accelerated arm ahead of bod on a circular path outside of that provided by hips and parallel to it, would we not then multiply the racket head speed?

                          We could even call this "great extension" depending on where the arm was when it took off.

                          The Beasley-bam, a shot that Ellsworth Vines presumably grew up on before he edited it, is based on a circular swing behind the back with arm gradually extending all the way through the pivot at end of the stroke.

                          To edit it, Vines put a middle-size loop out in the slot to replace all the behind-the-back arm work. I know I've said "a pencil-thin loop" in the past but now change my perception. An important feature of this loop is that it is performed with elbow way out from bod in the slot.

                          This big separation says to me to try pulling hand sideways on both the Ellie-bam and other forehands.

                          Just to consider the Ellie-bam for now, this elusive shot is seen as not much more than a loop and a pivot. But the power of the pivot should be enhanced by the arm accelerating sideways.
                          Last edited by bottle; 08-10-2017, 05:44 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Four Nameless Forehands

                            1) Strong eastern grip. Whirl connected and level for the ball. Arms then separate equally, i.e., breaststroke in opposite direction. Hit the ball.

                            2) Composite grip and straight wrist. Same shot as 1) but without the mondo ("flip").

                            3) Strong eastern grip. Prepare high in slot to outside with hands already separated. This separation continues however with straight downward drop of hitting arm balanced by left arm's "smoothing the waters."

                            4) Composite grip. Use down and up backswing combined with unit turn. The hands separation is immediate. Both arms should do the down and up. Very rhythmic.

                            1), 2) and 4) are short forehands used from within the court in doubles. 3) is for full forehands hit from baseline area.

                            Further Development of 1)

                            Loops do nothing but diminish the potential of strokes. They provide loose motion to the ball but do so while messing with racket pitch. The same loose motion can more sensibly be applied with long old-fashioned and level takeback.

                            That is my premise, but maybe I just suffer from a mood of the day.

                            To follow the premise, in 1) we combine unit turn and breaststroke into a single count. But should both arms move the same amount? That is a good idea for any breaststroke. On the other hand we are playing tennis rather than going for a swim.

                            So we only point with left hand at right net post. While taking racket as far as we need for maximum feel-- perhaps a distance twice as great.

                            Count 2 of 2-3 now becomes an elbow swing with arm meanwhile pushing gently toward straightness.

                            Count 3 of 2-3 becomes the hips pivot that provides smooth weight transfer while determining direction of the shot.

                            You don't like this, reader? You believe, with Peter Burwash, that wrist and arm, not hips pivot, should determine one's aim?

                            Then reverse order of everything. Let hips go first, then shoulders, then arm-- at the least you will have a new shot.

                            But don't like that one either? Then eliminate the shoulders turn. Just go from hips turn to arm work. You will have a new shot again.
                            Last edited by bottle; 08-10-2017, 05:31 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Basic Choice: Hips in the Beginning, Hips in the Middle, Hips in the End

                              Sorry if that shakes up your ideas about your forehand, reader, but on the other hand most tennis players need some shaking up.

                              We groove a stroke, don't you know, until we become complacent-- then our game goes downhill.

                              Better, I suppose, to blame the deterioration on the advancement of old age.

                              No, think about the above choice. One will have new strokes to play with in no time.

                              Comment


                              • Just Remember, Roger is the Living Poof

                                If you remember that, reader, you will have a happy tennis life even though you can't hit a successful Federfore.

                                Discovery is what I am about, and I plan to discover my best of all Ellie-bams this very day.

                                Such discovery may take a lot of words, but should I apologize for that? It's not the words but the discovery that matters, i.e., whether the discovery happens. Let the rest of the dense-heads continue with their advertisements for Donald Trump.

                                They are copywriters not writers. Writers care about discovery and truth, at least some do. There are story-tellers and teachers and enchanters, as Vladimir Nabokov tells us, of which enchanters are the most interesting. And a great writer combines elements from all three categories. I wouldn't know about that.

                                At last self-feed I was about to implement straight back racket preparation in my Ellie-bam forever.

                                The swim nature of forehand breaststroke, I thought, is slow enough not to upset equilibrium of the whole shot.

                                But I cannot take that chance, and at sometime during the self-feed, I tried a loop farther out to my right side.

                                And changed grip to strong eastern. And added full mondo.

                                Roundabout arm acceleration keeping parallel to late and simultaneous hips rotation can create what any tennis coach would call "great extension" depending on where the arm was to begin.

                                And the loop will have distorted balance less because of some verticality.

                                Don't forget, though, that in the midst of all the acceleration, the arm is straightening to point at target as if racket would fly out at the target if you didn't hold on.

                                Will the opponent read the difference between hunched and erect posture, between a push-down-a-concrete-wall shot and an elegant topspin shot, between an Ellie-bam and an ATP3?

                                Probably. But so what?
                                Last edited by bottle; 08-12-2017, 03:27 AM.

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