Super Sonic Serve
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Hocus Pocus and Re-focus
The "re-focusing" provided by tennis_chiro in Post # 1109 could lead to whole new avenues of exploration. Not that I advise this, just get yourself a single great serving motion. Contemplate the following sequence however and accept it or dismiss it or try it.
You learned figure eight exercises a long time ago, so drop your hands down together and don't twist the racket in any direction-- not yet. But do make a turn around the back of your body with the racket.
Some might call this turn the "up" of down and up. Well, the racket certainly does come up some in addition to going around. This is a good time to turn your upper body as well.
The change of linear direction and toss occurs. I've turned upper body at many different times and protraction but never in this precise phase, so this will be a new experience for me.
Other areas of fooling around which can de-chunk a serve and make it truly horrendous include the twisting (cocking) of the upper arm I just talked about. Just where is the best place to do this? By right ankle? Not today.
Today the twist shall be a roil, in effect a swamp buggy's large fan or propeller describing a large arc.
Where are we going with all this? Toward a brief toss hit rhythm. And lots of internal power from the "slingshot," with that being the difference between a mechanical flailing of limbs and a unified throw.
So, the propeller will take care of the winding of the upper arm. Perhaps you did this winding or "twisting" of arm later like me. We all need to fiddle with the dial on an old radio until the ball game comes in. I envision however that most or all of this backward twisting of the arm will happen before the final leg-driven retraction of the shoulder capsule/pod.Last edited by bottle; 04-24-2012, 03:33 AM.Leave a comment:
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Great Players Have a Single Toss for their Arsenal of Serves?
Great players may devise different ways of bending under and around the same toss for maximum deception, and as Pat Dougherty points out, the opponent is watching the ball right then and therefore won't observe the server's bod.
But there is at least one great player who doesn't do that or didn't in the following comparison between a first and second serve.
One way to see this is to click back and forth between the two videos at the end of this post, isolating the toss. That means noticing nothing else in the videos except toss. What are the toss characteristics? Are the two tosses the same?
Both tosses rise and fall to the left. Roger's head position is exactly the same distance to left of the center line. There however similarity ends.
For, in the first serve video, the toss goes right out of the top of the frame. Second serve toss doesn't do that. And it comes down farther to the left. Conclusion: If both tosses have a dome shape to them, the first is a taller dome, the second a shallower dome with a wider base.
So what does the hand do on the slingshot up as the result of this difference in shape of toss?
In first serve it grazes right ear as Vic Braden used to teach for a SPIN serve. For second or spin serve the hand goes up only a couple of inches to the left of there, rising this time between right ear and center of top of skull.
Next questions: Which variation is easier for the ordinary player to master-- body to toss or toss to body? And how worried is Roger about telegraphing his intention? And how worried should you (I) be about the same thing for us?
Last edited by bottle; 04-20-2012, 07:36 AM.Leave a comment:
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Thanks
Thanks, Bottle. I was really curious how you went about applying that thought.
It certainly sounds like you made some progress.
donLeave a comment:
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Glad to Try to Respond
I pretty much work on my serve all the time. I am definitely one of THOSE people. There was a woman in Winston-Salem who did the same thing, but I didn't have enough respect for her, thought she was spinning her wheels more than the ball, was pretty sure that she should be doing something healthy such as playing tennis more.
I'll play tomorrow, go to the tennis social for the food and three or four sets of doubles with a new group of people every round-- lousy players mixed with pretty good ones including an Australian or two.
In the meantime there have been two "practice" sessions since your "try to remember what the leg drive is really doing" post, which I immediately printed out. People talk about how I "practice." But I seldom practice, I develop, good ideas and bad ones both, then hope I have the wit to throw out the bad ones.
Keep tossing arm up, maintain a firm left side-- these are good ideas in need of constant renewal and refreshment. In my case I'd neglected them simply because I was distracted by other aspects of the serve, and maybe I never understood them well enough in the first place. Communication between human beings is always difficult though possible for anyone who call himself a teacher or a writer or both.
These lines of yours, Don, along with everything you said, had effect: "First you pull the slingshot back with the right hand, and then you release it; that is, you release the projectile. Nothing happens if you release the slingshot with the left hand that is holding it at the same time. There has to be a fulcrum or pivot point somewhere. Otherwise, no power."
Wow, does that notion re-focus the serve. And here I am studying Pat Dougherty, who wants his servers to open their chests to the ball more so that the muscles there can pull the racket. Muscles in front-- okay. Muscles in back (scapular retraction, scapular adduction)-- surely, they all have to work together. But "slingshot" covers it all.
I also appreciate the expression "shoulder capsule." A friend in Virginia, Bill Mathias, who had won the 65 nationals on clay and grass, declared at a very advanced age to all at the Winchester courts around him who wanted to hear: "I have just discovered that arching the back is the source of all true power in the serve."
It was kind of wonderful and very funny since everybody at that tennis center, even people who could beat Bill sometimes knew that Bill, a scrawny guy who spent his whole life developing his drop-shot from behind the baseline, was the best player there. But what does "arching the back" really mean? It's tennis code, isn't it? And codes in something as involved as tennis technique really suck, no? When one carefully reads a good young teaching pro like Chris Lewit, one realizes that he is re-defining arch from something that will damage anyone's lumbar region to a stretch up higher that will involve one or more of the shoulder capsules.
Okay, an immediate increase in power of 75 to 100 per cent is what happened for me when I envisioned or felt a slingshot in my hands. The first "practice" session was more dramatic but the principle still was there in the second. How I'll do at the tennis social is unknown since all power is double-edged. But I don't really care. The progress has been clear.
Okay, Don, so you know me by now in a kind of virtual way, which as it turns out is not as bad as some people critical of internet exchanges think. You probably know that I'll elaborate (unnecessarily) to drain the new information of its potential.
You would be right. I should just keep things simple if I want to serve well tomorrow night. Slingshot pure. Start feeling the elastic between the two hands right from address. Keep the left elbow up for a fraction of a second more-- that's when the difference in power occurs, just as for the fop in WIMBLEDON, the bad movie, who then won both the tournament and Kirsten Dunst.
But look at the following note. See where I'm about to go wrong.
"Try serves from gut and right capsule only. From gut and left capsule only. From all three. From the capsules with nothing from gut."
The hardest part of these proposals to understand might be anything that has to do with left capsule-- husking forward there seems a sure way to fatally slacken the rubber band, but what if left arm like a Tai Chi master refusing to be budged were so strong that it could remain stationary while the whole upper body slingshotted around it?
Maybe I can answer right now. Absurd! Too much mass in body.
So I'll just try to keep left arm solid and slingshot the "projectile," i.e., the racket tip, which I'm squeezing right now between my thumb and first two fingers.Last edited by bottle; 04-22-2012, 06:46 AM.Leave a comment:
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"Tried it?"
Bottle,Originally posted by bottle View Post
I have to ask. How did you "try it"?
donLeave a comment:
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What is really happening?
Try to remember what the leg drive is really doing. Sure, you get up a little higher in the air for net clearance, but that is minor, although still significant. What the leg drive really does is pull the rubber band back a little further. Take a look at those videos and notice the bottom of the back of Roger's head against the service line; it will give you a clear reference point. His head moves a lot as his hand rises and the racket moves around onto the power line where the butt of the racket actually points at the contact point and is in a place that includes the target. But then it is almost stationary against the service line as the tricep extends the radius and ulna on the humerus (straightens the arm). By this time the leg drive has already done its work stretching the shoulder capsule just a little extra for a little more pop. First you pull the slingshot back with the right hand, and then you release it; that is, you release the projectile. Nothing happens if you release the slingshot with the left hand that is holding it at the same time. There has to be a fulcrum or a pivot point somewhere. Otherwise, no power.Originally posted by bottle View PostSorry I said that. O well, I can't undo it now.
"Not that I'm advocating a high jump. I leave that to Federer. His hanging jump leaves him time to pull in his landing gear." Yes, I did say that, too.
When I reconsider these videos of Federer's first and second serve, identified by tennis_chiro, I'm beginning to think that Federer gets the knees bent again to establish a strong structure in the air.
My current understanding is that, in an airborne service motion like Federer's, he'll get more power out of "horizontal" rotation from the gut because of his reasserted solidity of the lower body same as on a forehand.
donLeave a comment:
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O Silly Bottle
Sorry I said that. O well, I can't undo it now.
"Not that I'm advocating a high jump. I leave that to Federer. His hanging jump leaves him time to pull in his landing gear." Yes, I did say that, too.
When I reconsider these videos of Federer's first and second serve, identified by tennis_chiro, I'm beginning to think that Federer gets the knees bent again to establish a strong structure in the air.
My current understanding is that, in an airborne service motion like Federer's, he'll get more power out of "horizontal" rotation from the gut because of his reasserted solidity of the lower body same as on a forehand.Last edited by bottle; 04-16-2012, 03:46 PM.Leave a comment:
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BH, FH and SERVICE Loops: Decorative, for Timing Only, or Accelerative?
I've already made my decision.
The idea of a one-hand backhander's compact loop driven by body motion came to me by way of Geoffrey Williams in these conversations. I may seem to hold forth a lot, but often it is in response to something somebody else has said perhaps even long ago.
Geoff's is great and recent information but still I had to alter some faulty concept. I have a different grip from Geoff, too. Might that matter? Of course.
The breakthrough came when I saw an instruction video where the racket after being taken back pointed straight up although it was relatively low. I never even turned on the sound to hear what the instructor had to say, just stole that image of vertical racket and applied it.
Once at the court, I realized that my previous loop was too far forward and too far out, and that I needed to jettison any idea of closing the racket during the loop. If I want to close the racket I do it during the big part of the inside-out swing, not during the brief (and passive, I would argue) accelerating loop.
On forehand side we have talked forever about "mondo" and other forms of reverse action acceleration.
Well, what works on the backhand (goose) will work on the forehand (gander). But I've gained from my experiments in Federfore the opinion that the forehand loops of most tennis players are too mechanical and uni-sized.
Roger Federer keeps his elbow down, takes racket head high and extends his arm backward thereby changing its length.
Well, even in double-bend structure one can change the arm's length, too, as I told Alexandra Franco of Portugal in response to one of her wonderful private emails through this website.
The current TP videos of Azarenka's forehand show the start of a bigger loop that she then shrink-wraps into something smaller. Other such examples exist on The Tour. Anyone could try it.
Or, how about doing the opposite by changing arm length as following? One can shorten arm as racket goes up, which brings the racket tip in high and close. One can then extend the arm to late-determined length for lower loop and mondo.
Why do this? To create something organic and more forgiving characterized by "feel," where last instant adjustment becomes a virtue rather than a fault.
On serve people including me have used a lot of words to discuss a second low point behind the back next to hitting edge of the body. Here's where Brian Gordon in his TP articles has told us about "pre-load" with great animations. But let's just call this an acceleration loop, too.
My serve may not look like Amina's in the following video, which I recommend watching both with and without the sound. But the toss-hit timing of it is to be drooled after, along with its easy formation of passive loop.
We (I) worry so much about when to bend the arm and how much and where. Instead, how about putting the whole passive loop a bit forward, a bit farther back, looking for the best, easy serves.Last edited by bottle; 04-16-2012, 07:53 AM.Leave a comment:
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Kick But Not Enough
One feature of extreme stance serving, as I understand it, is that with feet splayed in slightly different directions, some natural spiral is imparted to the body as one's legs fire.
Today's experiment aims to do away with that spiral by aiming feet in same direction, or if not in exact same direction, in the two directions that enable the given person to jump as high as possible.
This would be a "standing jump" which ought to be classified, it seems to me, within the platform stance serving phylum.
Not that I'm advocating a high jump. I leave that to Federer. His hanging jump leaves him time to pull in his landing gear.
I do want maximum ease, however, which comes from maximum strength, which comes with drive from both legs together, and which can increase the opening of chest toward the sky.
So, here's my idea. One jumps slightly into the air but doesn't turn. When one comes down, the feet have turned.
What happened in between? The serve. I'm just the coyote up on a cliff planning this time to squash the roadrunner with a trapezoid-shaped boulder, but, my serves are undergoing intersport migration toward a Ricky Fowler golf swing where knees stay firm to better load the gut.
Sequence shall be: 1) mild liftoff from both legs, 2) the rest of the serve all of which will twirl the feet like twin propellers helping one to hang in mid-air. Ground energy may have run up the body but upper body action will work back down to the feet.
Note: Upper body rotation followed by arm produces kick for me but not enough. Arm throw followed by upper body rotation improves aim and consistency while producing kick for me but not enough. My experiment here is in more simultaneity and less sequence with hope that such summing of forces will generate more racket head speed.Last edited by bottle; 04-14-2012, 07:30 AM.Leave a comment:
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Hoop Snake Server
Naturalist Raymond Ditmars, according to Wikipedia, placed $10,000 in trust at a New York bank for the first person to produce evidence of a hoop snake. But snakes will sometimes swallow their own tails. The following URL is for The Song of the Hoop Snake, a three-part round:
More about hoop snakes:
When I studied old drawings of the rock-and-roll serve of Pancho Segura the other day in his book CHAMPIONSHIP STRATEGY, I thought of the legendary hoop snake and wondered if maybe I could find some video of Segura's serve on the internet.
The drawings show the knees tilted forward, i.e., front leg more bent than rear leg and yet, with upper arm nicely lined up with shoulders line and parallel with court, the racket still is able to slant in toward his right hip completing the hoop.
This serve is the opposite of what I can do since I am not that flexible and therefore is not for me.
I couldn't find the desired video but here's a nice article on Segura:
Last edited by bottle; 04-13-2012, 09:34 AM.Leave a comment:
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Upside Down Ziegenfuss to the Rescue Again
A Ziegenfuss (goat-foot) is a forehand in which the arm goes first, then the body blends in to lengthen the effective followthrough.
Bill Tilden on the serve: It's how the arm whips about the body.
The Ziegenfuss is not my preferred forehand but has won matches for me.
All my recent efforts at developing an effective kick serve-- not pitty-pat topspin which I can do all day-- have come to naught.
So my concept this afternoon shall be an upside down Ziegenfuss to lengthen my runway up and past the ball. You can lengthen a runway at either end. They never tell you that.
Any bulldozers I bring may tip over on such a steep grade. On the other hand, they'd be imaginary, so why not?
No, I'll go with late upper body rotation. By now I can simulate any possible elbow position using arm alone-- the arm doesn't necessarily have to react to the body the way it does on my flat and slice serves.
My flat and slice have improved by the way as a direct result of my efforts toward more violent kick.
So all is not gloom and doom-- very important to acknowledge that.
The backward racket work shall remain the same. We shall not yield that beachhead.
Using arm only-- but from the same windup/winddown, I'll start throwing up (sorry) and blend in with light energy from the gut followed by extension and hips-caused feet helicoptering all to extend my runway farther toward the sky.Last edited by bottle; 04-13-2012, 06:23 AM.Leave a comment:
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Spiralspin
I told my chiropractor, who says that kids are definitely more flexible in their rotors than old persons, about SPIRALSPIN, introduced to the tennis community by physicist Rod Cross, of Australia, where the people don't even play American football, do they?
And how nobody will react to this actual ball phenomenon very much.
My chiropractor then told how divers went down to a recent shipwreck and opened a compartment with an air bubble inside.
A dozen people were standing in deep water with only their noses and mouths above the surface and cried,
"DON'T MAKE ANY WAVES!"Last edited by bottle; 04-12-2012, 07:51 AM.Leave a comment:
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