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A New Year's Serve

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  • Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
    OK Bottle and DB,
    The war is over. Stick to tennis or whatever topic and just stop talking to each other. Bottle as I know you know most of the comments of yours DB reposted here are over the line. I don't have the time or certainly the interest to follow this back. I suspect DB may have made a few comments in the past, but I really don't care. You don't like each other I get it. SO just stop. I suggest you guys take a cue from Phil and both block each other.
    John Yandell
    But he keeps changing his re-posts, adding, eliminating, so how can I evaluate whether some one of them crosses some mythical line? And you are quite wrong in saying that I don't like don_budge. It's just his retrograde views that I detest.

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    • If you have a problem write me. Block him and it's all irrelevant.

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      • A New See See

        The Beasley-bam (long backswing) and Ellie-bam (short backswing) both ended with full coinciding of weight transfer and hips pivot.

        Should we say that these two shots are built the same, i.e., have the same structure? Well, they reflect the same weight transfer. Slow arm movement with no weight goes first. Hips rotation with full weight comes second.

        So now we keep same arm to bod sequence but with reversed assignment of weight transfer.

        The weight stays where the racket is throughout an elbow sweep that can be short.

        And no weight transfer whatsoever is assigned to the pivot of one's hips now to be accomplished on one leg.

        When one tries this in one's living room the weight transfer feels very weird. Weight goes from rear foot to front foot with rear heel all the way down or just beginning its rise.

        Is this the famous or should I say very obscure topspin angle of John M. Barnaby? Why not then? And isn't this shot the best possible see see, CC, Cee Cee or crosscourt short angle in tennis existence? And if not, then why not-- what is better? "Your natural forehand" is one possible answer that personally does not satisfy me although I never would criticize somebody, given the challenge, for using it-- just think they could do better.

        The goal, as Barnaby indicates, is to hit with precision into a tight spot.

        I would argue that The Topspin Angle, as shown here, is unique in that the topspin is bod-provided.

        And bod is more reliable than arm.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by bottle; 07-18-2017, 01:20 PM.

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        • Originally posted by bottle View Post
          The National Abandoned Tennis Courts Reclamation Project

          Well, it's an idea. But no one should have overly high expectations. You see a total of twelve courts, five of them without nets.

          You meanwhile want only one court for self-feed.

          So you set up your basket of balls on its stilts among the four-foot bushes on the court nearest to the parking lot, try a few serves, Beasley-bams and Federfores. (Hadn't discovered the Agi-scissor yet.)

          Do this a few times. Then one day the bushes are down. "They finally mowed it," an old man informs you as he walks past.

          For how long were the weeds permitted to grow up? Years? Decades? And yet the Rouge Park Detroit attendants left seven nets up, some of them in not too bad shape.

          A couple of months have passed by now. There was a time in there where a court upgrade seemed in order.

          So I tried serving on a bunch of different courts, brought a big half-inch drive socket wrench to lift one of the cables up to standard height.

          That worked but was bad choice. There were other courts whose nets were already at proper height.

          Tried serving here and there. In most of the courts 10 balls or more went under a fence.

          But one court was untried and looked pretty good. In one direction however the balls went through a door out onto the grass bordering Plymouth Street.

          So I worked on the door. It just needed some weeding and a big push. Problem solved.

          This, in a relative world, is a great court, very smooth, fast and slick. It would almost play like the laykold we learned on at Crooked Run Racket Club in Front Royal Virginia before the managers dumbed (slowed) the courts down and after we left reduced the numbers of them to make room for more exercise machines.

          You might trip on the Rouge Park whiskers protruding through the cracks but you could almost play on this one court three over in the row nearest to Plymouth Street.

          And one can imagine 1928 Plymouths cruising slowly past.

          Perfect for self-feed.

          The balls don't go under any fence.

          And yet the fence is loose enough so that you merely have to push on it when you're picking up your balls and it slides nicely out of the way.
          A Most Amazing Thing Leading to Speculation that Detroit is Coming Back

          When I showed up for self-feed this morning, there were 30 people carrying garden tools on the dozen Plymouth Street courts at Rouge River Park. They were very quiet while a leader spoke to them on many topics, all of them inspirational. And I know he referred to me self-feeding on another part of the courts at least once. Something about working at things and keeping at it.

          Also, two courts down, were the first tennis players I have ever seen in three months of coming to the place (Rouge Park, down-the-river Detroit). It was a big strong male teacher and his student, a woman just starting out. And he was very patient so I knew he was good. And the net was the one I adjusted.

          When I was done, I went over to them, which caused his student to stare at me and therefore miss the ball tossed at her. "Never mind me," I said, "just go ahead and hit the ball." And I said to the man, "This is great to see."

          He agreed. The thirty persons meanwhile were digging the whiskers out of all the cracks.

          "Does this mean they're going to re-surface?" I asked.

          "No, I don't think so," he said.

          "But you'll be able to practice your serve," I said. "Or do a lesson. It's perfect."

          He agreed and wished me a good day.

          This was hardly the throat slitting that my recent partner Hope has been expecting. We have a friend, you see, a widow whose husband was shaving one day in the Washington, D.C. area after she went to work. A man on drugs came into the house and into the bathroom and slit her husband's throat. We both know those details but never have learned whether the man with the knife was white or black.
          Last edited by bottle; 07-18-2017, 05:57 PM.

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          • When if Ever Does a Synthetic Stroke Become "Natural?"

            The Australian tennis writer Paul Metzler like the American tennis writer Ed Weiss is brilliant on the subject of natural strokes.

            Most strokes, once they become over-thought, are thoroughly synthetic and are never going to be as good as a natural one.

            This is essential knowledge that all tennis players beyond beginner should absorb.

            Natural: The Don Budge backhand. The Andy Roddick serve. The Roger Federer serve and forehand. But how is a natural stroke discovered? Sometimes, if rarely, through a mad and frustrated attempt to hit as hard as one can (the Andy Roddick serve).

            The word "hacker" isn't just a golfing term.

            Metzler understands why we over-thinkers keep at it-- dissatisfaction with what we've got. To me that amounts to idealism not to be disparaged. When something doesn't work you try something new-- common sense.

            And maybe something did work far in the past. Everybody has served an ace. My idea is to recapture and improve upon some moment or series of moments. I don't see another, better choice.

            So today, in serving, it's down and up with the hitting arm-- way, way up.

            Toss now will be combined with backward hips rotation which will cock the upraised hand AROUND.

            Rotation back of shoulders will now change the racket from one side of bod to the other as the hitting arm bends and drops to shoulders line and winds keylike a bit too (perhaps).

            The most beautiful serve I have ever seen belonged to NCAA singles champion Bea Bielik.

            Its distinguishing characteristic was its slow motion sideways racket travel that seemed to go forever.

            We seek the natural, known to Bielik and a few others but not to us at this time.
            Last edited by bottle; 07-20-2017, 06:15 AM.

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            • A Writer Should Try to Say Something

              Tennis has its rules but so does writing.

              Could anyone say something sufficiently provocative on the day that Roger Federer captured his eighth Wimbledon singles championship?

              People all over the world tried. Did anyone succeed?

              One person wrote that Roger Federer shows better form than other players.

              Maybe that was it. Maybe that was the most provocative statement. At the time I first read it, however, I thought, "This is a very weak entry in the global sweepstakes."

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              • Originally posted by bottle View Post
                When if Ever Does a Synthetic Stroke Become "Natural?"

                So today, in serving, it's down and up with the hitting arm-- way, way up.

                Toss now will be combined with backward hips rotation which will cock the upraised hand AROUND.

                Rotation back of shoulders will now change the racket from one side of bod to the other as the hitting arm bends and drops to shoulders line and winds keylike a bit too (perhaps).

                The most beautiful serve I have ever seen belonged to NCAA singles champion Bea Bielik.

                Its distinguishing characteristic was slow motion sideways racket travel that seemed to go forever.

                We seek the natural, known to Bielik and a few others but not to us at this time.
                Just When You Think You're Not Getting Anywhere...

                These serves, not practiced before actual play, proved surprisingly effective including a clean short slice ace from the doubles deuce court. A new way of serving then? How excited should I be? Not too for sure. But should I call the new development a last night brainstorm? Probably. How about an example of "bending the stick the other way," a phrase used by John M. Barnaby in RACKET WORK: THE KEY TO TENNIS, Copyright 1969 by Allyn and Bacon Inc., 470 Atlantic Avenue, Boston.
                Last edited by bottle; 07-20-2017, 06:17 AM.

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                • Montaigne-like Ramble-- You're Warned

                  My friend Ken Hunt, 88 (I think) continues to be a friend despite my insistence on tennis stroke invention. I suppose if we were doubles partners in national level tournaments, and we lost some big match because of my newest invention, that would strain our relationship. That once happened in a four-state league with another partner who was ranked like Ken. "After all the work we did..." he said as my heart sank. We were so far ahead of the best of the Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland and Pennsylvania teams before we (I in particular) fell apart.

                  But Ken is different, always messing with his strokes the way I do. He is perfectly happy to call himself a lifelong hacker (which he is and he isn't).

                  All three of his kids played tennis at University Liggett School in Grosse Pointe MI and went on to great careers both within tennis and without.

                  His daughter played number one singles for Georgetown University. And earlier, Ken lived in Winston-Salem NC, a place where I spent 12 years.

                  A real tennis person from a real tennis family, in other words. Earlier, before I even knew the name "Ken Hunt" I reported here that I had the best hit of my life with him. Why? Because he keeps a ball going forever while hitting the spots that will build your game, not just his.

                  In fact he told me yesterday about one very good partner he had who preferred a hit to a play. Eventually, of course, they would play.

                  Like everyone's favorite initial essayist (including the never-to-ramble Ralph Waldo Emerson's) Michel de Montaigne, I start anywhere. The question now is where am I going with my Agi-scissor, my Ellie-bam, and my McEnrueful.

                  And what about my Beasley-bam. It's dying an historical death as I realize more and more how Mercer Beasley's most famous student, Ellsworth Vines, rebelled against his mentor in paring down that shot. (Or was Beasley right there on the court contributing to that whittling down-- how can I know?)

                  And Don Budge's forehand, I now suspect, was not significantly different from the Ellie-bam except in backswing and possibly grip and weight transfer.

                  In any case, Budge attributed one of his great wins, over Fred Perry, to having played against Ellsworth Vines just before, at greater speed.

                  And Vines and Budge both grew up in a tradition where, on the forehand side, you felt you were throwing your racket after the ball.

                  When I read that same tip in both HOW TO PLAY TENNIS by Mercer Beasley and DON BUDGE: A TENNIS MEMOIR, I became a bit confused.

                  Because when you watch old videos, both Vines and Budge bend the arm back toward the bod a bit in a very similar looking and distinctive follow through.

                  Now I'm learning the Agi-scissor, which is hit "with weight where the racket is" and uses a twirl for its follow through as one's butt sinks to the close. This could be an initial step toward more accuracy.

                  Budge, I think, is too complete a player to try and imitate.

                  The extremes of forehand characteristic in Radwanska and Vines however give the caricaturist or mere slavish imitator more of a specific to work with.

                  To hit a powerful flat non-spinning knuckleball like Vines, I choose to separate hands early and prepare as if for a chop by bending the arm up.

                  Gradual straightening of elbow then occurs through both leveling off and delayed weight transfer described in a single word as "pivot" followed then by slight bending of the arm.
                  Last edited by bottle; 07-23-2017, 06:48 AM.

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                  • A True Recognition

                    One of the truest recognitions ever to emerge from these pages is Stotty's saying that he begins to see something (presumably on court or in video) once it has been pointed out.

                    In my case, I thought for a long time that forehand-hitting Ellsworth Vines gradually straightened his arm toward his target but then bent his arm also toward his target.

                    No, he bends his arm after it got straight pointing at the target.

                    He bends as racket comes away from the target after full extension.

                    This is what I could not see until I told myself to see it.

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                    • A Small Occurrence, Not to be Forgotten

                      Serves improved when original pre-toss lift of racket went farther toward right fence, which naturally means rising closer to bod in the net to rear fence spectrum.

                      Well, I sought more sideways travel in my service motion similar to that of former NCAA singles champ Bea Bielik.

                      And this is one way of achieving that goal cognizant that elbow going sideways will also deepen amount of distance of hand behind head.

                      Without having tried the new serve in actual play (that happens tomorrow) I want to be positive about it ahead of time.

                      And so I will state that this change is not the result of wishing the racket to be HERE when the legs just got bent THERE, or any similar very technical analysis, but rather the simplicity of admiring some woman's graceful serve.

                      Maximizing sideways travel in this manner allows for the improved looseness that comes with increased simultaneity of elbow travel, elbow bend and hips rotation all in the same direction.

                      Backward shoulders rotation then continues the looseness only in a more downward direction.

                      What will be the result of all this? Am willing to suspend judgment and wait and see.

                      But how can more looseness be a bad thing in the case of a server who is a bit tight?

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                      • Perfecting a Simpler and More Effortless Forehand

                        (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcY4pkX5GC8)

                        Click on this video precisely at 27 . It is essential that you find 27 since you will be clicking on it again and again. First the flat shot artist Ellsworth Vines hits his forehand and then the cut shot artist George Lott hits his. And you, by clicking on the number 27 have created duelling banjos which you can keep going all day long.

                        Ellie is the subject here, not George. Notice how Ellie doesn't waste time holding on to his racket with his left hand yet still gets a good bod turn. And still puts something, though minimal, between bod turn back and bod turn forward.

                        What is it, this thing between the turns, that can vary from almost nothing as here to a huge breaststroke in most 2017 tour forehands, but always seems nevertheless to exist.

                        It is a slight movement of the elbow. If you keep clicking on 27 you can see a bit of light opening each time you click in the crook of Ellie's elbow.

                        In the incipient form of this forehand created by Ellie's mentor Mercer Beasley, such elbow movement in personal experiments turned out to be absolutely essential to the magic of the shot.

                        But the elbow movement happened way around behind the back. And was combined with the very beginning of the protracted straightening from the elbow.

                        Now that beginning of elbow straightening has been eliminated. Because the amount of desired elbow bend has already been set. And yet the seminal move of the elbow, providing essential timing between the two bod turns, has come across in the evolution from Beasley-bam to Ellie-bam.

                        What's left here? A lot of Zen Buddhism as arm straightens as if into someone's chin, abetted by delayed hips turn to finish off the punch, smooth but all out, the way it best is going to work.
                        Last edited by bottle; 07-24-2017, 12:48 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by bottle View Post
                          Perfecting a Simpler and More Effortless Forehand

                          (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcY4pkX5GC8)

                          Click on this video precisely at 27 . It is essential that you find 27 since you will be clicking on it again and again. First the flat shot artist Ellsworth Vines hits his forehand and then the cut shot artist George Lott hits his. And you, by clicking on the number 27 have created duelling banjos which you can keep going all day long.

                          Ellie is the subject here, not George. Notice how Ellie doesn't waste time holding on to his racket with his left hand yet still gets a good bod turn. And still puts something, though minimal, between bod turn back and bod turn forward.
                          Amazing...different people see different things. I am mesmerised by Vines' reverse forehand at 36 then Lott hitting his serve at the apex of the toss at 38...fascinating. Two amazing things happening within two seconds of each other.

                          Stotty

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                          • Originally posted by stotty View Post

                            Amazing...different people see different things. I am mesmerised by Vines' reverse forehand at 36 then Lott hitting his serve at the apex of the toss at 38...fascinating. Two amazing things happening within two seconds of each other.
                            Maybe this falls in the realm of "oblique perception." You're asked, or ask yourself, to give concentration to something, and in so doing notice something else off to the side you wouldn't maybe have noticed otherwise.
                            Last edited by bottle; 07-24-2017, 01:12 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by bottle View Post

                              Maybe this falls in the realm of "oblique perception." You're asked, or ask yourself, to give concentration to something, and in so doing notice something else off to the side you wouldn't maybe have noticed otherwise.
                              Yes, I think you are right...oblique perception.
                              Stotty

                              Comment


                              • Left Hand in an Ellie-bam

                                (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcY4pkX5GC8)

                                Now click on 56 in the same video to see how left arm could improve one's imitation. Click 56 repeatedly. It looks to me that the left arm straightens forward-- very proactively-- as the hitting elbow goes back. Which arm at that point is doing more work?

                                The left arm then bends.

                                Best advice on the subject probably comes from Australian tennis writer Paul Metzler in his book ADVANCED TENNIS:

                                "At your next practice, play several shots of every type of stroke with your left hand in your pocket throughout. Then take it out and make the most use you can of it-- without actually playing two-handed, of course-- in every one of your strokes. Whatever advantage you gain, build it into your game so that you will perform it naturally. I don't think you'll find that you have altogether wasted your time."

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