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A New Year's Serve

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  • bottle
    replied
    Thank you very much. And yes, the clip works fine. This make everything more real. Thanks again.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Short shorts and Budge serving...

    bottle,

    You have to wait for it but there are a couple of really good (frontview) serves of Don Budge in this British Pathe clip. You also get a short post match speech from both player which is nice.

    I couldn't believe the short shorts Riggs was wearing. He must have seemed like a nudist in those days! Budge is in his flannels as usual.

    I hope you can view the clip. I'm not sure British Pathe clips will view in the States. I know many BBC clips don't...let me know. I hope you can. I searched for quite a while to find this clip for you.



    PS. There is an option to view the clip as a series of stills...which will help you view the Budge serving at the key moments in good detail.
    Last edited by stotty; 10-13-2012, 01:29 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Don't Change Anything

    That's what the staffs of the Detroit Tigers and the New York Yankees are telling their baseball players as they begin their best of seven American League play-off.

    This advice is totally untrue of course since the great hitters who haven't been hitting need to hit. And the lesser players who have been hitting need to keep on hitting unlike usual.

    No, tennis players, some of us at least, aren't afraid of options and don't even mind using baseball as influence.

    Now Oscar Wegner thinks that baseball is a pernicious influence on the stroking technique of American tennis players. Which strokes though? And isn't Oscar from South American, Indian and European cultures other than baseball?

    J. Donald Budge clearly was different-- prodigal baseball player lured away by his brother Lloyd to become a prodigal tennis player.

    If one has learned the basic principles of the J. Donald Budge pitch-- I mean serve-- one can tweak the arm action a bit without too much untold destruction.

    Don't give up the deep gravity drop, I've decided. And don't change initial arm setting either. Let straightening and bending of the arm feel perfectly natural with both of these actions formed by the gravity drop, but, accelerate the rising elbow ahead a bit so that it subtly closes palm of the hand at the same time.

    Cootie check may be slightly farther around the back of the head but that's okay.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Ha!

    Lasted six hours. I guess that's Bottleesque, too.
    Last edited by bottle; 10-13-2012, 05:13 AM.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    bottleesque...

    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    How best to reach Steve's "perfect position?" I came up with one solution but like a new one better. Change initial or waiting or risen position (image # 1) by a slight lifting of elbow to close palm. Obtain this setting before there's any movement at all. After this modified version of image # 1 the hands are going to rise with weight on back foot, body tall. Let gravity then do its magic as normal but slightly out to the right side-- low point will be a bit more shallow. Now with arm naturally bending, one reaches the high ideal position with ease.
    How sublime...how bottleesque of you.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Ease with Good Vector

    Re post 1314, which is don_budge on service image # 3 in the Ed Vebell line drawings I presented of the J. Donald Budge serve: One can see the pertinent drawing all blown up in 1320 or earlier if smaller in an eight-figure sequence at 1307 .

    I believe don_budge a.k.a. Steve Navarro when he says that image # 3 presents the racket "in perfect position to 'fall' behind the server."

    That statement, justified by experiment, points to fall's beginning in which the racket starts sideways almost grazing one's head.

    How best to reach Steve's "perfect position?" I came up with one solution but like a new one better. Change initial or waiting or risen position (image # 1) by a slight lifting of elbow to close palm. Obtain this setting before there's any movement at all. After this modified version of image # 1 the hands are going to rise with weight on back foot, body tall. Let gravity then do its magic as normal but slightly out to the right side-- low point will be a bit more shallow. Now with arm naturally bending, one reaches the high ideal position with ease.
    Last edited by bottle; 10-11-2012, 03:01 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    What One Person Thinks About Forehands, Backhands and Serves Today

    My theory of tennis instruction is that it is always too detailed or not detailed enough. That criticism certainly applies to the two major political parties just before the national election as well.

    Forehands. Li Na is outside-in. Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal are inside-out. The way one can tell is to situate oneself directly behind the player. Video will suffice. Roger twirls his racket head up pretty close to his body, flips outside of that and contacts outside of THAT.

    Novak starts with close elbow, too. Flip is to the outside of where racket was and contact is outside of THAT.

    Rafa brings elbow back inside (but with more separation) and flips to the outside of where racket was and contacts to the outside of THAT.

    Li Na starts outside of projected contact point, elbow way out. When she lowers that elbow the racket must of necessity come in to right behind the ball.

    All four players get behind the ball. And don’t cross it. Good golfers do the same thing and with same variation. One golfer might come from the outside and loop in behind the ball. Another golfer starts strictly from the inside and works out to right behind the ball.

    In tennis, Roger, Novak, Rafa and Li Na all have Type III forehands (which in terms of quality ought to be called "Type I" although that wouldn't be historical). Everything but followthrough occurs in the slot.

    Then there’s somebody like Andre Agassi—a freak. Outside in then outside to the ball. By the same long path criterion, Roger Federer is a freak, too. He somehow gets the energy from his racket tip twirling up close to the body to add to the energy of the arm straightening with all of this occurring before the flip.

    Are such long backswings necessary? No. Are they great? Definitely. So how do they happen? 10,000 hours or ten years, whichever comes first. Weird patterns get grooved and fast. Or did they work from the beginning? Not from what I heard.

    To think more about Agassi, consider the following video. It’s outside-in-outside, but the elbow at no time is very much in (exceptions may be found in other videos). So he and Li Na are similar here.



    Backhands. If you have a pretty good one-hander's topspin backhand but your crosscourts aren’t angled sharply enough, get lower. Yes, bend your knees. $486, pleeeeze.

    Serves. Sorry, but I only care about Don Budge imitations right now, which I’ve been discussing for a reason one post after another. And I wish now to add one sequence.

    In the transition between images 3 and 4 (see post # 1320), both left arm and racket start to drop with the shoulders either wound back or winding back.

    I chose the “winding back” option for my experiment and felt I detected significant timing improvement.

    So, did Don Budge not keep his tossing arm upraised for as long as modern servers? Seems possible. And is this little move at beginning of the drop the same old “checking the top back of the head for cooties with a small mirror in the palm of your hand” discussed by Vic Braden? Seems likely again.
    Last edited by bottle; 10-11-2012, 01:53 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Threshing Heels and Image Three

    Remember, I'm a rotorded server. So can't really know, at this point of progression, what will help somebody else-- maybe reader even you-- due to the degree of my self-concern and admiration for what seems to have evolved.

    We all know that people who talk like this are cruising for a bruising. Don't worry, that's already happened, i.e., I've lost some service games. But I think I'll blame that on my partner.

    Overall, I'm holding more and am presently playing three times a week instead of the one time a week of the past year since the left leg is better. And there's a reason. My new serve puts less pressure on it.

    I'll append Image Three here because I'm quite sure it's helping to prolong my second gravity drop and thereby is improving the rhythm and timing of the serve.

    This will happen any time I get myself easily to Image Three. So, how to do it? First develop some mild contempt for the autocracy of "trophy position." Vic Braden was on the right track when he mercilessly mocked it in TENNIS FOR THE FUTURE.

    Second, set up a smidge right of a first gravity drop along the toes of both feet. If one is going to do that, however-- offset the racket just a bit so it starts falling mildly toward the body, one needs to start bending arm a bit sooner than one is accustomed to do.

    Anyway, this is one way to achieve Image Three with ease.
    Attached Files

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  • bottle
    replied
    Re # 1314

    What a tip!

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  • bottle
    replied
    Simple Facts for the Rotorded Server (or Anybody Else)

    We all know that racket tip not getting low enough is going to louse up a serve.

    But do we realize that runway to the ball can also be lengthened by simultaneously uncocking the shoulders while pushing them toward the net in the vicinity of a toss twenty-four inches in front of the baseline?

    We've noticed before how still Don Budge keeps his head and eyes in the phase just before the sudden release which must be last instant to work.

    don_budge, who spent two summers staffing for Don Budge, has indicated that drawings from THE GAME OF SINGLES IN TENNIS (post # 1307) are probably closer to the master's old age serve than the most instructional of films we've ever seen probably made when Budge was young and at the peak of his powers.

    A distinguishing feature of these line drawings is that while the heels "thresh," i.e., one goes down while the other goes up, neither turns just then-- and yet the knees and hips do turn.
    Last edited by bottle; 10-09-2012, 11:29 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Swirling into a Serve

    This is more like dance class than tennis class, but as you might suspect, I like that idea, and who wouldn't if he or she strives for balance.

    The feet are close together with weight on back one and arms and racket easily rising to a good first drop position. Top of body then sways forward to create a Leaning Tower of Pisa. Things that happen during this delicate, straight-bodied sway (if we can remember them but if we've forgotten some that's probably good, too) are the toss, the backward turn of the hips, the rising front heel, the dropping of the racket which then glides or even slightly accelerates up back side of a canyon.

    Rhythmically, the hips reverse, with front heel returning to down and rear heel rising to up. In the low toss version of Donald Budge compared to the two foot higher toss of Lloyd Budge, the ball will only drop three or four inches before contact.

    Focus here is still on the feet. The heels descending and elevating all at once are part of a body swivel that is very snakelike if I do say so myself.

    Hips thrust toward target is pretty much common to all serves but this action in most serves nowadays is positively self-conscious compared to this one.

    All the player is doing, really, is rhythmically loading for a powerful but unstrained throw. Also, during this forward hips swirl, upper body is winding back along with the muscular portion of the bone, gristle and muscle that comprise the scapula.

    Did I think this serve would use one half the energy? More like one third.

    Will there be problems, under pressure, with the toss? No doubt. If so, catch it and try again. That's what Lloyd Budge says, and he lured his brother away from baseball and taught him to play, so listen to him.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Note on American League baseball playoffs: With one out, the bases loaded, Kelly hits a deep fly in the bottom of the ninth to break the 4-4 tie and end the game! On the way out of Comerica Park we see a small kid with the name "Kelly" on his Detroit-shirted back. So I pat him on the shoulder. And his father says that the kid is the only person in the stadium wearing a Kelly sweatshirt. So I suggest that he take the kid to Oakland!
    Last edited by bottle; 10-08-2012, 08:06 AM.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Go Tigers! From Sweden...

    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    Hope's son-in-law surprised us by buying us tickets to actually go to Comerica Park with them at noon today (Sunday)!
    But you do have a really good serve...John!

    You lucky dog! Not the same as the old Tiger Stadium but man...I hope the weather is just great. Eat a hot dog for me. Wash it down with a couple of beers. Go Tigers! Verlander and the triple crown winner...what's his name? Cabrera? What the hell am I doing in Sweden?

    Oops...I see Verlander pitched last night. 120 pitches. Mickey Lolich said, "120 pitches is just warming up...but then again, I am a dinosaur". I saw him pitch in the 1968 series...I guess that makes me at least the son of a dinosaur. Sorry about that Dad.

    Have a great day...bottle and Hope!
    Last edited by don_budge; 10-07-2012, 07:17 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Not Rigamarole

    Great stuff. And you're discussing the overall when I'm still stuck on the heels but I'll get over that very soon.

    In the meantime:

    Easy version of Don Budge serve:

    Make all final preparations while front heel screws down and back heel screws up (one motion).

    Then hold heels where they are while you hit the ball.

    The front heel lifts a second time as part of the action that pulls the back leg through.

    But don't be overly literal about this stuff or anything in tennis. Maybe front heel is already coming up a little while one is hitting the ball. Maybe the weight shift starts a smidge earlier or later than one thought, etc.

    I love it when perfect strangers say to me, "You have a really good serve" whether that's true or not. Yes I played on Friday night and wasn't as damaged as usual on Saturday. Now to second Detroit play-off game. Verlander, Benoit and Papa Grande all were good enough last night (3-1). Hope's son-in-law surprised us by buying us tickets to actually go to Comerica Park with them at noon today (Sunday)!
    Last edited by bottle; 10-10-2012, 12:12 PM.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    Positions #1 and #3...of the J. Donald Budge service motion

    John...please consider these two images. Positions #1 and #3. One very key and interesting aspect of this beautiful classic motion is the fact that the position of the racquet, hand and arm have virtually maintained the identical position throughout the backswing. He is truly swinging the racquet into position to go forwards. At the top of the backswing in image #3 the racquet is in perfect position to "fall" behind the server.

    This perfect "falling" motion is very instrumental and key in the timing of the swing. The only way to maintain this position of the racquet, hand and arm throughout the backswing is to take the tip of the racquet down a path in front of you along the parallel path in front of the toes. Does that make any sense to you? It's all coming back to me now...this is the basis for all of my rollercoaster rigamarole and service theory...it was J. Donald's explanation to me made back in the summers of '72 and '73.

    Very cool of you to revive this beautiful classic motion in your New Year's Serve! I think that I detect a smile on his face from above...he would have been very proud to know that someone was discussing the merits of his great service motion and not just the legendary backhand. It really brings back some fond memories of when I used to be you know who.
    Last edited by don_budge; 10-07-2012, 04:06 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    To don_budge

    Same thing with me. Various moves mess with my possessions (with ALL of them going into a dumpster in one case-- see THE PURSE MAKER'S CLASP). So am not sure if I have the Talbert and Old doubles book any more but will look in the basement. But could surely lend the singles book the next time you come to Detroit.

    My ex-wife preserved my tennis books during our divorce. Eventually, she sent all of them to me in big boxes, except for TENNIS FOR WOMEN, a gift from Anita DeFranco, a Washington, D.C. area good player and marathon runner. That book contains the Ziegenfuss, which I've experimented with and written about from memory.

    Copyright of THE GAME OF SINGLES IN TENNIS is 1962 .
    Last edited by bottle; 10-06-2012, 10:26 AM.

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