A New Year's Serve

[stotty]

Murray's split step

Just looked at Borgono's clip of Murray.

Isn't the start of the hop simply Murray moving up the court at the point when his opponent has lost sight of him during the ball toss...sneaking in. The actual split step happens later. The video is not slowed down enough to see the true point at which Murray's split step is really taking place in relation to the server, though after watching it many times, it looks the split step starts to take place at the bottom of the server's racket drop. Without slowing the footage down much slower, it's impossible to know.

The split step in this sense is relational to the opponent, and learnt over time through a player's own experience of playing tennis. If we have to teach this to a student, we are probably teaching someone who is never going to be much of a player.

I stand to be corrected...but firmly believe this to be the case.

[stotty]

The kind words are much appreciated. I hope some of you got a chance to look at the link I put up to Borgogno's videos. They are really pretty good.

don

The link was buried in your text, so I missed it. Better to separate links clearly from the text so we can't miss them.

I looked at two of the Borgono videos: shadowing with the split step coach, and the Christina McHall video...interesting. I'll look at more of his videos and post tomorrow. You've opened up an interesting topic here.

[tennis_chiro]

Thanks

I agree. don is an incredible asset...a gentleman...giving...knowledgeable. As for bottle..."relentless enthusiasm" is probably an understatement...a legend...at least on this forum he is.

The kind words are much appreciated. I hope some of you got a chance to look at the link I put up to Borgogno's videos. They are really pretty good.

don

[stotty]

yeah Don, is an incredible asset on this forum...And would appear to be a true gentleman..hey look Bottle, I envy your enthusiasm, don't ever lose it...it's a great thing.

I agree. don is an incredible asset...a gentleman...giving...knowledgeable. As for bottle..."relentless enthusiasm" is probably an understatement...a legend...at least on this forum he is.

[don_budge]

Anticipation...Carly Simon and John McEnroe

Great discussion guys...brilliant analysis tennis_chiro.

Serbo-Croatian does NOT exist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67oN0YQVgdo

Anticipation...Carly Simon (In 1971 when I was just a bit too young to understand)

We can never know about the days to come
But we think about them anyway, yay
And I wonder if I'm really with you now
Or just chasin' after some finer day

Anticipation, anticipation
Is makin' me late
Is keepin' me waitin'

And I tell you how easy it feels to be with you
And how right your arms feel around me
But I, I rehearsed those lines just late last night
When I was thinkin' about how right tonight might be

Anticipation, anticipation
Is makin' me late
Is keepin' me waitin'

And tomorrow we might not be together
I'm no prophet and I don't know nature's ways
So I'll try and see into your eyes right now
And stay right here 'cause these are the good old days

(These are the good old days)
And stay right here 'cause these are the good old days
(These are the good old days)
(These are the good old days)
(These are the good old days)
(These are.....the good old days)

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_backhand/mac_backhand.html?MacBHShortCourtLevelRear.mov

I love this video clip of McEnroe's backhand that bottle has been displaying from time to time in his quest to understand the continental gripped backhand of Johnny Boy...and this is what I wrote about it originally.

the choice of views in this series of mcenroe forehands and backhands is really extraordinary for a study such as these. here mcenroe is taking a ball from very nearly the same position of the court that he did in the first of this short series but this time he elects to go hard and low up the line. immediately after hitting his shot he realizes he has his opponent in trouble so he is scampering to the net to seal the deal. once again as always the preparation is just perfect with the feet, shoulders and racquet in perfect alignment and with this preparation and with this grip of a supinated wrist he can hold his intentions to the very last moment and spring on it. this late release of the racquet head gives his opponents all kinds of trouble reading his shots. he is unbelievably clever in his shot selection and he has a bunch to choose from.

But there is another story here in the clip and it is about anticipation and footwork for that matter. McEnroe appears to have hit a forehand judging from his position in the court to his opponent on the other side of the net who looks to be none other than Björn Borg. Borg has returned lamely short and to the McEnroe Continental Gripped Backhand. Johnny takes a skipping step first that is initiated to his right with his left foot coming to the right foot and bumping it to the right where it temporarily is planted and he taps his left big toe to the ground as he momentarily gauges his distance to move forwards then he takes another skipping step but this time it is initiated with his right foot bumping the left (front) foot forwards into striking position. The position of his feet are perfect...front foot 45 degrees and the back 90 degrees give or take some wiggle room. His ability to anticipate gives him the quick drop on his opponent.

On the other side of the court a frozen bear...Björn Borg (björn means bear in Swedish) is planted in the middle of the court unable to get a read on the McEnroe backhand or maybe he was anticipating cross court, it appears that he was...and McEnroe crossed him up by going down the line. The moral of this little story was that McEnroe was able to anticipate the Borg short reply but Borg was unable to anticipate the McEnroe bullet up the line. These little exchanges take place ad infinitum throughout a tennis match. The one who guesses right the most often will most likely be able to create those three lines ala McEnroe thereby taking more balanced swings and producing more efficient use of energy. How important is footwork? How important is anticipation?

On the other side of the net a futile Björn Borg is trapped into crossing over with his right foot to go to his left. Kiss of Death...advantage McEnroe.

One of the most important elements of footwork...is anticipation. Just ask Carly Simon or John McEnroe.

[10splayer]

I feel like Alexandra eliciting from John Yandell how he personally starts his forehand.

What a great discussion. I must thank 10splayer, licensedcoach and tennis_chiro for their participation. The language is full and clear in all three cases, so one can just take the italicized one-sentence essay about to follow as simple-minded joke, except that there may be serious reason for wondering if some other language is better than English for teaching tennis.

tennis_chiro must know that I sometimes get over-enthusiastic about some new idea or previously non-apprehended information. And so I need to say I agree with all of his subjective judgments in his post here. And as far as the objective parts, I think this is the clearest description of desired tennis movement I've ever read-- at least it didn't leave me with unanswered questions as usually happens.

If English is best for recollections of Tintern Abbey, but Spanish and Russian are better for swearing, and THE JOY OF SEX is much better translated into Magyarul, then somebody who wants to play better tennis should teach himself Serbian or Serbo-Croatian, I'm not sure which.

yeah Don, is an incredible asset on this forum...And would appear to be a true gentleman..hey look Bottle, I envy your enthusiasm, don't ever lose it...it's a great thing.

[julian1]

Serbo_Croatian

I feel like Alexandra eliciting from John Yandell how he personally starts his forehand.

What a great discussion. I must thank 10splayer, licensedcoach and tennis_chiro for their participation. The language is full and clear in all three cases, so one can just take the italicized one-sentence essay about to follow as simple-minded joke, except that there may be serious reason for wondering if some other language is better than English for teaching tennis.

tennis_chiro must know that I sometimes get over-enthusiastic about some new idea or previously non-apprehended information. And so I need to say I agree with all of his subjective judgments in his post here. And as far as the objective parts, I think this is the clearest description of desired tennis movement I've ever read-- at least it didn't leave me with unanswered questions as usually happens.

If English is best for recollections of Tintern Abbey, but Spanish and Russian are better for swearing, and THE JOY OF SEX is much better translated into Magyarul, then somebody who wants to play better tennis should teach himself Serbian or Serbo-Croatian, I'm not sure which.

Serbo-Croatian does NOT exist

[bottle]

On Tennis Language: Conclusion

I feel like Alexandra eliciting from John Yandell how he personally starts his forehand.

What a great discussion. I must thank 10splayer, licensedcoach and tennis_chiro for their participation. The language is full and clear in all three cases, so one can just take the italicized one-sentence essay about to follow as simple-minded joke, except that there may be serious reason for wondering if some other language is better than English for teaching tennis.

tennis_chiro must know that I sometimes get over-enthusiastic about some new idea or previously non-apprehended information. And so I need to say I agree with all of his subjective judgments in his post here. And as far as the objective parts, I think this is the clearest description of desired tennis movement I've ever read-- at least it didn't leave me with unanswered questions as usually happens.

If English is best for recollections of Tintern Abbey, but Spanish and Russian are better for swearing, and THE JOY OF SEX is much better translated into Magyarul, then somebody who wants to play better tennis should teach himself Serbian or Serbo-Croatian, I'm not sure which.

[tennis_chiro]

Gravity step/drop step means you got caught "flat-footed"

Sorry, guys. I refuse to open the interminable emails from Salzenstein. They get stuck in my spam filter along with the emails form Fuzzy Yellow Balls and Oscar Wegner and all the other spammers selling something on the web. I am fed up with pitches that spend two minutes telling me how great their product is going to be if I just go to their link or give them my email, ect. It just seems like another infomercial. I've seen some good things from Jeff (and also from FYB and Oscar), but I hate the "sell". It's one reason I spend a lot of time on this site.

As for the gravity step/drop step, I assume you are referring to the little step to the right Budge makes with his left foot to move his center of gravity outside his base falling towards the target as 10splayer says. Indeed, this is the fastest way to get moving, if you have gotten caught with both feet on the ground(flat-footed, even if you are on your toes). But you are already behind the player who did it right: that is, unweighted with a split-step, recognized which way to go as he began his descent but before he put a foot down, and put the foot on the opposite side of the direction of movement (right foot to move to the left) down while simultaneously reaching to the ball side with the ball side foot (left for movement to the left) as the other foot and leg are driving the initial move and forcing the center of gravity outside of the initial base even as the extension of the ball side foot is increasing that base. Done correctly, you also benefit from the ssc (stretch-shortening-cycle) adding additional driving power to the foot that hits the ground first; in this way, the player actually gets a spring towards the ball coming out of the split-step. If both feet hit the ground before the player can make that move, then he is forced to do the next best thing, which is a gravity/drop step.

Even for you, Bottle, this is the fastest way for you to move to the ball. And, unless the ball is really close to you, the second step is going to be a cross-over step, or should be (right foot crossing over moving towards the left). It makes no sense to stay facing the net as you make this move any more than it makes any sense to turn first before you begin to move to the side. The first move to the left (after the right foot has hit the ground and begun to drive to the left for which purpose it is best to keep that right foot perpendicular to the direction in which you must move, i.e. pointed at the net) made with the left foot would naturally include turning that foot at least somewhat in that direction. (I kind of hate the word "naturally" because the only natural position on the tennis court is flat out on your back supine; everything else is learned one way or another.)

Now it's important to remember that this is not a foot race. You do not win the prize by breaking the finish line first with some part of your body crossing some boundary; the race is to a position of preparedness. So not only do you have to get to the ball as quickly as possible, you have to get there in position to execute your stroke. This is where it would seem easier to always keep your center of gravity (cg) somewhere within your base with shuffling side steps; this is probably the best course of action for most beginner and intermediate players. But when you have to really move quickly, you have to learn to transition from that balanced, upright position to the faster leaning posture and back to the upright balanced position for the actual execution of the stroke. Focus on getting a good start to get you moving and take the racket head to the ball; then be sure to get a good "plant" step behind the ball with your outside foot that can stop your lateral momentum and enable you to generate something towards the target. We are used to seeing this on wide forehands and somewhat less frequently on wide two-handed backhands in the form of the open stanced shot. When players run through that shot they are usually trying to "steal the point back" with a winner and they are not that concerned with recovery. For one handed backhand players, that open stanced shot is not a frequent option; and for those players it is even more important how they place that posterior plant foot and catch their momentum before executing their stroke.

The best work I've seen done on this part of movement comes from Vic Borgogno, but his site has also gotten to be like an infomercial as he tries to sell the electronic devices he's developed to help train improved "split-step" reaction. Search his name and split-step and you'll find plenty of clips on youtube.(http://www.youtube.com/user/BikerVic1)

Obviously, a player can't always achieve that perfect timing and they get stuck with both feet on the ground; then they need that gravity/drop step. Also, recognize that sometimes it appears that both feet are on the ground, but if the ball-side foot is still unweighted, it is still possible to drive with the opposite foot and slide that ball side foot slightly toward the ball rather than using the gravity step.

don

[stotty]

Movement

I really don't believe there is a definitive way to move in tennis. Whether you shuffle along the baseline like Borg did (crab-like, sideways...then with short sprinting strides when running forwards for Mac's drop shots)...or float effortlessly along like Federer or Nastase, both methods are valid....though I fancy Borg was quicker than the other two.

I have never really studied movement in great detail...but I think I'm about to get the bug.

[10splayer]

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Budge is employing one of the fastest ways of movement. Nothing new here. He is simply sliding the foot underneath (a bit) so the center of gravity falls outside the base of support.

What Jeff, (and i think you) are suggesting is the opposite. That the center of gravity always stays within the base of support ....Shuffle steps being the most obvious example of this.

And while I agree that a player is better served using shuffle steps when possible, (not necessarily for the reasons Jeff suggested) and increasing the range by which they can utilize this form of movement...I'll never agree that shuffle steps are faster....

[bottle]

No, a hippy turn is part of a proper gravity step, and that immediately turns the foot. The thing about the two videos I posted is that the foot doesn't start to turn until the second step. I'm not making this up!

But I'll go with semantic misunderstandings, which too often occur in tennis discussion, mainly because of the impoverishment of language at least in tennis English, I don't know why.

Hey, gravity steps are fast! I know that. But you might want a certain foot coming forward at a certain time, also, and that might dictate something else.

Also, gravity step and unit turn where the foot does immediately splay are closely related to each other. We might be looking at the same thing, basically, but the foot might not slide back toward the core if the original split step put the two feet close together.

Split step, split stop, shuffle, sidestep, prying of inside leg in a gravity turn-- all of this stuff may have commonalities and even me, the word guy supposedly, is getting bored with the discussion right now.

The thing is to be fast. And to know the possible variations that could improve your game. Here's the Jeff video that started me off talking about him. It's well worth some patience in watching it, e.g., the footwork part won't start right away.

In one of my posts in another thread I think I made a distinction between what I was talking about-- speed to the ball without immediately moving inside leg other than to extend it-- and Jeff's demonstrations here.

Didn't see it today, but on another day watching the same video I did see Jeff's inside foot get off of the court and move rather than stay in one spot the way I'm talking about.

So the subject is indeed complex. Would what Don Budge or John McEnroe did (in those specific videos!) lead to something even quicker than what Jeff was doing-- in some specific case? An inquiring mind should take nothing for granted.

But I understand you think Donald Budge is in the middle of a gravity step because of the way his body pries up and over his inside foot. I don't think so in view of the fact that both of his feet point toward the net until the step after this prying across.

Maybe all of it should be expressed on the court and not in words and possibly in film, as here in Jeff's video. If I had any reservations about Jeff, he won me over, once and for all, I would think, in this video so wonderfully filled out.

http://www.jeffsalzensteintennis.com/TBS-2Hand/secret-shuffle-move/

Maybe one has to click on "footwork tricks." That's what I did.

[10splayer]

Btw, Could you reference Jeff S's video, so I could take a look at it?

[10splayer]

The trouble with your reply is that you didn't specifically refer to the two videos I posted, one of John McEnroe and the other of J. Donald Budge, nor to Jeff Salzenstein's recent instructional video all of which provide instances of not doing what you advise.

I might go with you on the going forward idea since the video posted over and over again of McEnroe does have him going forward.

But the Budge? Sorry. Are you saying he's slow to the ball? I don't think so.
And he's moving laterally. Here it is again.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/donbudge/donbudge_sa.html?DBBHRear.mov

It's great to live by ready-made ideas. Saves all kinds of self-incrimination.
In my case, for instance, I was happy as a pig in a poke to think that every ground stroke should start with a unit turn that includes a flaring out of the foot. How did I know that? Well, the NTA told me so, and they certified me for teaching tennis, so I wouldn't want to go against them. Now I'm contemptuous of myself for having been naive for so long.

The big technical difference, in my view, is that the inside leg extends as the outside foot moves. It might move partway toward the other, as in the McEnroe video, or could cross way over along the baseline as in the Budge video. Has Budge slowed himself down by doing this? I don't think so. It seems to me that in three steps he's crowding the sideline, and in the fourth "step" he hits the ball, which does take him to the sideline.

In either case, McEnroe or Budge in these two videos, the foot splays or starts to splay in the second step.

I may have adopted "unit turn in every case" as a catechism, but always have been suspicious ever since I saw filmed sequences of Stan Smith's forehand in the old TENNIS OUR WAY vcr made by him with Vic Braden and Arthur Ashe.

He was hitting these great, solid, improbably relaxed forehands, and was starting by moving the trailing foot right away to set up an inchworm rhythm that is especially effective with neutral forehands. Then he hit some open ones and did start with the immediate splay if I remember correctly.

I guess the only way to settle this dispute is with a stopwatch. I want to hold it though since I don't trust anyone else.

There's a neat video in the backhand section of McEnroe handing a close ball.
He immediately splays inside foot as he puts weight on outside foot. Then he re-adjusts outside foot (which means his weight has to be on inside foot). Followed by a conventionally closed or rather neutral hitting step.

This is the kind of versatility I'd like to learn (if I can). Because I'm convinced that a person is faster if he avoids one size fits all. And I need extra speed since I'm slowing down in other ways.

Budge is using a "gravity step", which is the fastest way to move. It certainly falls under the category of turning first.

Bottle, we all have our own terminology, but In mine there are two broad variations of movement.....Turning the hips first, or playing with the feet apart (shuffle stepping) of the two, the former is a much faster way to get from point A to B, and the latter better for close proximity, as it is easier to redirect momentum and recover.

[bottle]

The trouble with your reply is that you didn't specifically refer to the two videos I posted, one of John McEnroe and the other of J. Donald Budge, nor to Jeff Salzenstein's recent instructional video all of which provide instances of not doing what you advise.

I might go with you on the going forward idea since the video posted over and over again of McEnroe does have him going forward.

But the Budge? Sorry. Are you saying he's slow to the ball? I don't think so.
And he's moving laterally. Here it is again.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/donbudge/donbudge_sa.html?DBBHRear.mov

It's great to live by ready-made ideas. Saves all kinds of self-incrimination.
In my case, for instance, I was happy as a pig in a poke to think that every ground stroke should start with a unit turn that includes a flaring out of the foot. How did I know that? Well, the NTA told me so, and they certified me for teaching tennis, so I wouldn't want to go against them. Now I'm contemptuous of myself for having been naive for so long.

The big technical difference, in my view, is that the inside leg extends as the outside foot moves. It might move partway toward the other, as in the McEnroe video, or could cross way over along the baseline as in the Budge video. Has Budge slowed himself down by doing this? I don't think so. It seems to me that in three steps he's crowding the sideline, and in the fourth "step" he hits the ball, which does take him to the sideline.

In either case, McEnroe or Budge in these two videos, the foot splays or starts to splay in the second step.

I may have adopted "unit turn in every case" as a catechism, but always have been suspicious ever since I saw filmed sequences of Stan Smith's forehand in the old TENNIS OUR WAY vcr made by him with Vic Braden and Arthur Ashe.

He was hitting these great, solid, improbably relaxed forehands, and was starting by moving the trailing foot right away to set up an inchworm rhythm that is especially effective with neutral forehands. Then he hit some open ones and did start with the immediate splay if I remember correctly.

I guess the only way to settle this dispute is with a stopwatch. I want to hold it though since I don't trust anyone else.

There's a neat video in the backhand section of McEnroe handing a close ball.
He immediately splays inside foot as he puts weight on outside foot. Then he re-adjusts outside foot (which means his weight has to be on inside foot). Followed by a conventionally closed or rather neutral hitting step.

This is the kind of versatility I'd like to learn (if I can). Because I'm convinced that a person is faster if he avoids one size fits all. And I need extra speed since I'm slowing down in other ways.