Not Yet Tried
I don't see what's so great, in an ATP Wannabe Forehand, about getting shoulders turned and still, then making a breaststroke motion with the arms, then swinging forward.
That's what I see in this college recruitment video.
I would find this kid, this "tennis machine" as defined by Steve Navarro, rather terrifying because of his consistency. Still, I rebel. I don't want to hit the ball like this.
I'd call it "three parts to the stroke," not a bad idea in itself, but why not use a different three parts to create more conflict between body core and racket tip?
Part one: unit turn. The left hand stays on the racket, but for how long?
Part two: pointing across with opposite arm to complete the backward body coil and elbow nudge and tap of a dog.
Part three: the pull and forward stroke.
To me, this is better, but what do I know other than what works best for me?
One thing that is immediately nice about this scheme-- in our living room-- is that both arms get to straighten at once and not far apart like an insect's forelegs, in part two.
Another is that there's no pause between backward and forward body twist-- an arrangement which intuitively seems dynamic.
To summarize: There are three parts to the stroke with two of them occurring while the shoulders are rotating backward.
Note: The term "nudge" now means more since space has been created for independent arm travel to be simultaneously added to backward body turn.
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A New Year's Serve
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Teeter-Totter the Worst Idea in Tennis Invention History?
Serve and backhand slice are just the first two places where I have discovered this lurking spirochete.
One wants to get the elbow high yet one doesn't much care how.
So one belatedly waggles the elbow up as part of a body stretch which by itself is a good idea.
The effect in serve is the same as if one were part of a catapult crew in the post-drone wars and the spring-loaded axle at the base of the catapult's throwing arm lost its stability. Result: Leakage of power.
So get the elbow stable and firmly anchored before one twists it, in serve and backhand slice and any other catapult.
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Yup, and I was thinking, with a glass of pinot noir, that Don's instruction to let the anatomical moves adjust to an almost level swing (just barely descending I would presume) was uncommonly good, even for Don.
I think I tried, a couple of posts back, to present two extremes of Rosewallian slice-- a Rosewall sequence in which the racket went way up in the air like a skunk delivering a warning, and Trey Waltke's in repeating video where forearm and racket are almost parallel to the court before they produce a similar if smaller loop and venomous roll. With Waltke's preparation at top really resembling that of Rosewall's backhand volley more than Rosewall's ordinary slice, at least judging from a narrow base of three or four examples.
Well, people pretty much agree that Rosewall's slice is the best ever. And Waltke's is superior to anything I ever expect to attain. So why not split the technical difference? Have racket up at about 45 degrees before going down into the loop? And then fool around with more differences in these degrees?
The thing is, in fooling around like this with the elbow, one will, most likely, hit some slices with extraordinarily intense spin, maybe for a whole evening or match. But then the magic will be gone the next time out.
On Friday I hit some slices that were so spinny and sizzling and nasty and pace-filled and barely net-clearing and low-bouncing that my opponents were oohing and almost had nervous breakdowns. Later in the same set this nastiness was gone, however. Why? A question for me alone to answer.
I'm all for more analysis here. Until the shot may be repeated at will.Last edited by bottle; 04-12-2013, 01:35 PM.
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Looks aren't everything I guess
Amazing Rosewall's backhand, isn't it? It's amazing, too, how many sliced backhands in general are very similar looking yet the ball flies through the air miles better with some than others. It's seems the tiniest, fractional differences in stroke production make all the difference with this shot. I have a friend with a very similar looking backhand to Rosewall's yet it's nowhere near as good.
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Rotorded Server: Seixas Smash Model Didn't Work?
Then develop a backhand serve since your upper arm twists for longer runway on backhand side.
Note: Millions of tennis players have modeled Rosewallian slice without realizing that both Ken Rosewall's backhand volley and his regular backhand slice are backhand serves that work the same way as anybody's normal serve on opposite side of the body.
This thought is not an invitation to look for a hundred correspondences or lack of same.
The correspondence is in upper arm rotation and pre-load, i.e. slingshot or catapult if you would prefer. A catapult, say, that has a spring-loaded axle at foot of the throwing arm.Last edited by bottle; 04-09-2013, 10:44 AM.
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Rosewall forehand volley
Originally posted by tennis_chiro View PostThat may be the best clip I've ever seen to show the difference in a "Rosewallian" slice. In all the effort to dissect every anatomical difference, don't forget to notice the forward motion of the racket head towards impact is almost perfectly level. Find a simple way to make the racket head reproduce that movement and you may find all the anatomy fits pretty well!
Also interesting to note how athletic these guys look 60 years ago when hardly anyone went to the gym, especially the older Vic Seixas. Much more cut muscular appearance than players like Riggs, Budge, Kramer.
don
Nonetheless all the men in 1954 clip volley beautifully. None of this short compact, stabbing stuff you see so often today. All the men plough (plow...in yank speak I think) into their volleys with the shoulder. I really love that. Ploughing and following through fluently...wonderful.
Last edited by stotty; 04-08-2013, 02:14 PM.
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Wonderful Video
Originally posted by bottle View PostWhy?
For revenge against those who have ostracized you by whupping up on your first AND second serves, and against those tennis instructors who have maintained a knowing silence when contemplating your grim plight, and to demonstrate to yourself once and for all, that, while your upper arm twist is limited in one direction it is unlimited in the other.
We start with the Stotty-provided 1954 Davis Cup clip full of amazing goodies. This video is hard to stop for analysis of anything, at least on my computer, but is short enough for plenty of repetition.
In the backhand volley sequences of Ken Rosewall, he gets his elbow high, where he wants it, then keeps it still while he cocks the racket underneath it.
In the full slice sequences of Ken Rosewall, he keeps his elbow low, then lifts it, then twists it while keeping it still.
You can hit these two shots, rotorded servers. So can anyone. But should we tell him?
As demonstration, stand racketless and face wall with upper arm parallel to floor. With opposite arm, push your serving hand back. How far does the upper arm, held parallel, twist back?
Now wind up for a backhand slice on the other side of your body, adopting the same construction. See how far your upper arm can twist back? You see?
Remember, to hit rolling slice, you roll to the ball but don't roll from the ball. It is of extreme importance to keep the elbow still in the vertical or up-and-down dimension if you are bold enough to expect Rosewallian result.
Also interesting to note how athletic these guys look 60 years ago when hardly anyone went to the gym, especially the older Vic Seixas. Much more cut muscular appearance than players like Riggs, Budge, Kramer.
don
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Developing Slingshot in the McEnroe-esque Forehand
First one must strip down every movement to its essence, specifically adopt down up down backswing rhythm in which each of these three moves (two in backswing and one in transition) are small.
After I've tried this for a while, I love to expand the whole cycle into a Tom Okker spin-off that is huge while trying to keep the same proportion.
Eternal optimist that I am, I think everything will eventually work in competition, but I'm not so dumb that I don't know the short stroke will prove best in almost all cases.
One great aspect of the short stroke is that the arm gets straight early, removing a variable.
So hand has just started down and inward toward body.
That is the time for leg and hips to fight the falling arm.
Personally, I don't think I should worry too much about leg and hips sequence. Some say leg then hips. Some say hips then leg. Some say use hips but stay down. What is best? An upward, unified spiral? Kinetic chain is a pain and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
What is wanted is conflict between the core and the hand. Geoffrey Williams has been very good in explaining this phenomenon for all tennis shots.
Steve Navarro, golfer as he is, has been very good in explaining that the forward rotating hips, begun at the perfect time I'm trying to identify, will continue the arm down and in for desired inside-out swing.
At contact, in this shot, the arm is rolling. Time I guess to quote Steve again.
"My arm rolls with the weight of the racquet head coming over and through the ball."
The roll is not the slingshot. The roll does send the weight of the racket ahead of the hand = more acceleration. But the roll is incorporated within the slingshot.Last edited by bottle; 04-08-2013, 05:51 AM.
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Rotorded Ones! Vic Seixas Backward-Leaning Smash as Model for Rotorded Serve?
Okay, okay, there won't be any linear weight transfer toward the net, so maybe you can compromise with a tiny bit of forward head travel. Think of the Pancho Segura rock-and-roll. He hit the ball with a perfectly erect body, not a body angled toward the net like Venus Williams or Maria Sharapova.
We're still in Stotty's 1954 Davis Cup video of the previous post. As Vic Seixas hits an overhead, there is plenty of angular weight transfer toward the net, starting with legs scissoring to rotate hips in the direction we like. Upper body, too, rotates from the gut toward the net. Despite his body going backward, the shot produces big power.
Could we siphon off a bit of it, rotorded servers?
Well, have I tried this? Of course not. Once I try something, I usually don't write about it, preferring as I do to write about the next thing.
The farther back the body is leaning, however, the more upward arm twist will make itself available to us.
But if we are egging the ball (putting pop-top on it) there will be a bit more forward runway available, too.Last edited by bottle; 04-08-2013, 07:05 AM.
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Rotorded Servers! Roll backhand Slice Like Ken Rosewall
Why?
For revenge against those who have ostracized you by whupping up on your first AND second serves, and against those tennis instructors who have maintained a knowing silence when contemplating your grim plight, and to demonstrate to yourself once and for all, that, while your upper arm twist is limited in one direction it is unlimited in the other.
We start with the Stotty-provided 1954 Davis Cup clip full of amazing goodies. This video is hard to stop for analysis of anything, at least on my computer, but is short enough for plenty of repetition.
In the backhand volley sequences of Ken Rosewall, he gets his elbow high, where he wants it, then keeps it still while he cocks the racket underneath it.
In the full slice sequences of Ken Rosewall, he keeps his elbow low, then lifts it, then twists it while keeping it still.
You can hit these two shots, rotorded servers. So can anyone. But should we tell him?
As demonstration, stand racketless and face wall with upper arm parallel to floor. With opposite arm, push your serving hand back. How far does the upper arm, held parallel, twist back?
Now wind up for a backhand slice on the other side of your body, adopting the same construction. See how far your upper arm can twist back? You see?
Remember, to hit rolling slice, you roll to the ball but don't roll from the ball. It is of extreme importance to keep the elbow still in the vertical or up-and-down dimension if you are bold enough to expect Rosewallian result.Last edited by bottle; 04-08-2013, 05:19 AM.
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Elbow Level: What Could Bore More?
Wrong. The subject fascinates. We're still on Rosewall slice. As conversation piece. Everybody has an opinion. We start on the same page.
This is a great, great article, but try right now not to be distracted by any greatness other than that of Ken Rosewall's elbow in the 12-frame photo montage in the middle of the page.
No, don't be distracted by Trey Waltke's own more horizontal racket at top of his backswing. His elbow already is high. More simple? Reader, you do what you think best.
Rosewall, now-- he keeps his elbow down through frames 1-4 . In frame 5 it comes up. And there it stays in frame 6 as whole arm straightens.
Reader, good luck! I hope you pick the better of the two options-- different for different people, situations and days I would guess.
Note: Don't think you (I) know everything. In frame 5 the elbow goes up, but how does it go up? Twists up? Maybe, but in at least one of the sequences in the video of the previous post Ken Rosewall's elbow first stretches up without turning, then turns at the top.
Confusing? Ain't life a bitch.Last edited by bottle; 04-05-2013, 08:46 AM.
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Arm Roll in Rosewallian Slice: Maximize, Minimize or Moderate It?
The best slicers keep backswing adjustable rather than use one level for all (Thanks, Stotty).
The best slicer (Rosewall), in addition to whatever else he is doing, rolls his arm forward to the ball and discontinues this roll from the ball.
But not everyone should roll. There is a populace that will hit better slice if they eschew the roll. And even the best slicers will eschew the roll some of the time.
If I say my name is John Eschew, you can decide for yourself in which group I belong.
To eschew or not to eschew. To roll or not to roll.
But if one does choose to roll, one should contemplate the level of one's elbow IN RELATION TO THE BALL.
We've all heard about keeping the racket head above the wrist, but how about keeping the elbow higher than the wrist at the same time-- as a choice or idea?
Rosewall does that in his best slice, hit at comfortable level, in the above video.
Suppose that racket tip starts high, even vertical, as in the video.
Now the strings must get down to the ball. How may they do that? 1) Lower elbow 2) Twist racket head down 3) Do some of both.
These are variables to play with, an example in tennis of where a bit of conscious thought is good.
Special note: tpa tennis, Tom Allsopp's evolved website from Philadelphia (it was pretty wonderful in the first place), is up and running. http://tpatennis.com/Last edited by bottle; 04-05-2013, 05:05 AM.
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Rotorded Servers, Lend Me Your Ears
You gotta have a throwing motion. Which means, supposedly, that the racket must go way deep down behind your back.
But MUST the racket go deep? Let's word the thought differently, and simply say that the upper arm must freely twist one way before it twists the other.
Once you accept this idea, you're ready to design a new serve. Will it be everything you want? Of course not. But it will be a full throw.Last edited by bottle; 04-03-2013, 10:46 AM.
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Awfully good...Mats Wilander might say
Originally posted by bottle View Post
Isn't it awful the way through the decades John McEnroe's forehand always looks the same?
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