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  • tennis_chiro
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    ...

    In reality, not dream, the best topspin backhand I've mustered (funny choice there since that backhand was not influenced by Thomas Muster) is imitation Petr Korda.

    ...
    I wonder if he plays golf right handed! Perhaps the model on which his talented daughters started their golf careers.

    No doubt, one of the best backhands ever. He would be considered a little too flat by today's standards, but I can not think of a better model for a driving topspin backhand; and it was lethal.

    Bottle, you can't go wrong if you use that model! And boy, did he ever extend through the hit!

    don

    PS Found 3 topspin backhands in a row at 1:20:35
    Last edited by tennis_chiro; 12-23-2013, 09:51 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    An Ultimate One Hand Topspin Backhand

    It is too late for the majority to develop a first-rate forehand and backhand mainly because they suffer from the delusion they already have them.-- Ellsworth Vines

    Why clutter up your life?-- Thomas Norval Hepburn

    My father doesn't want me to have babies.-- Katharine Hepburn to John Barrymore after he suddenly took off his clothes and said how about it

    don_budge aka Steve Navarro of Michigan and Sweden has caught me apologizing for good ideas. Not today. And I could name the ten persons who contributed to the backhand I am about to divulge but why clutter up my life?

    In reality, not dream, the best topspin backhand I've mustered (funny choice there since that backhand was not influenced by Thomas Muster) is imitation Petr Korda.

    There shall be no such fallback, i.e., combined straightening of arm and turning of racket inward in response to forward hips rotation today however. Rather, let us sling the racket at the ball with all we got.

    Recipe:

    1) Flying grip change way around

    2) Sit-and-hit

    3) Forward hips rotation multiplied by pulling on knob

    4) Clench shoulderblades together while feathering the racket with rolling arm, straightening wrist and twiddling fingers

    5) Minimal followthrough, having turned the corner, with both ends of the racket rising at same speed.
    Last edited by bottle; 12-23-2013, 11:04 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    The rest of the story.

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  • tennis_chiro
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    The harsh truth is that perfecting groundstrokes is a long hard task...Ellsworth Vines

    Recently, as a birthday present, I acquired the hot baseball book CHARLEY LAU'S LAWS ON HITTING. To answer my own question as to possible tennis effects: More than that older baseball book THE SCIENCE OF HITTING by Ted Williams.

    For gleaning a few cross-sport tennis tips I actually prefer the superficiality of scanning some book before delving more deeply into it. The photos and captions in the LAU book, beyond mere preview, could be great for this.

    First of the possible hoists:

    . Hips turn maybe should not be as fast and violent as tennis myth has it.

    . Hips turn as deciphered by rear foot should include microseconds where heel stays down and microseconds where heel is then free to rise quite high.

    . Hips turn means nothing unless accompanied by arm tug on knob.

    . A flat swing, unrolled, will provide more extension when that is what you want.

    The main thrust of this book, I would say from my brother-in-law's home runs, is the underspun long ball that carries over a distant fence, not the topspin that keeps some hardhit ball inside of a tennis court.

    But, since I hit a lot of underspin, I have to be more than perfunctorily interested, perhaps for approach shots hit down the line to someone's forehand.

    The potentiality for tennis players and more specifically for this tennis player in LAU'S LAWS, I can already tell, will not be limited to that.
    I don't follow it that much anymore, but it seems to me Charlie Lau was "the authority" on hitting as a hitting coach in the majors in his time.



    don
    Last edited by tennis_chiro; 12-22-2013, 11:49 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    What Effect Will LAU'S LAWS ON HITTING Have on One's Tennis?

    The harsh truth is that perfecting groundstrokes is a long hard task...Ellsworth Vines

    Recently, as a birthday present, I acquired the hot baseball book CHARLEY LAU'S LAWS ON HITTING. To answer my own question as to possible tennis effects: More than that older baseball book THE SCIENCE OF HITTING by Ted Williams.

    For gleaning a few cross-sport tennis tips I actually prefer the superficiality of scanning some book before delving more deeply into it. The photos and captions in the LAU book, beyond mere preview, could be great for this.

    First of the possible hoists:

    . Hips turn maybe should not be as fast and violent as tennis myth has it.

    . Hips turn as deciphered by rear foot should include microseconds where heel stays down and microseconds where heel is then free to rise quite high.

    . Hips turn means nothing unless accompanied by arm tug on knob.

    . A flat swing, unrolled, will provide more extension when that is what you want.

    The main thrust of this book, I would say from my brother-in-law's home runs, is the underspun long ball that carries over a distant fence, not the topspin that keeps some hardhit ball inside of a tennis court.

    But, since I hit a lot of underspin, I have to be more than perfunctorily interested, perhaps for approach shots hit down the line to someone's forehand.

    The potentiality for tennis players and more specifically for this tennis player in LAU'S LAWS, I can already tell, will not be limited to that.
    Last edited by bottle; 12-22-2013, 09:32 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Two Shots Off Same Preparation

    A flying grip change to 2.0 continental followed by a feather consisting of wrist straightening combined with finger twiddle to outside.

    All of this low smoothness has been accomplished early with the arm still bearing slack, and now the racket butt points to the outside and continues to do so as hips straighten the arm and you pull on the rim in the same direction.

    You then can either roll into the ball (turn the corner) or roll up to the ball (turn the corner).

    For the latter shot, you can keep head extremely still while clenching shoulderblades together.

    For the former shot, the clench happens after contact, i.e., in the followthrough, but you also will do well by keeping eyes in quiet head focused on contact.
    Last edited by bottle; 12-21-2013, 06:47 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Try this Design, W?

    How much design will a tennis stroke bear? More than most people think. Accepting that premise, one might ask, "Which level of investment do I want: conservative, middling or big risk?"

    Also, "What is my history of tennis innovation? And my recent history? How many successes in there? And failures? Is there something I can build on?"

    For a long time I messed with the John McEnroe backhand. And why not? Isn't it still a great shot? McEnroe had a repertoire of great shots along with a popularly underestimated forehand.

    You got that, George Warmonger Bush? The word is "underestimated," not "missunderestimated." Well, you want to improve your tennis, George? Senator Paul Laxalt told me that none of the Bushes plays singles after the age of 40, so a change in stroke design will prove difficult due to the fewer repetitions in doubles.

    George, you and others should reconsider John McEnroe's topspin backhand. Of all his great shots, it is the one that that has stood sub specie aeternitatis. If John McEnroe has maneuvered anyone properly, he can uncork a clean winner, even against Patrick Rafter in John's old age.

    Forget the McEnroe/Arthur Ashe humped wrist. And the 2.5 grip. Not for you, George. Instead, try a 2.0 but flatten the wrist.

    Beyond that advice, George, I may not be able to help you. In my own case, I'm going to flatten the wrist earlier than ever before. To do it, I'll use my non-patented finger twiddle-- problematic in that opposite directioned arm rolls may happen in too short a space. But that won't stop me.

    First off, a flying grip change which, as you may already know, George, involves pulling with opposite hand while relaxing fingers of the hitting hand. But what you don't know, George, is that you can go as long or short with this as you choose. Let's opt for middle conservative portfolio investment. Which means you won't "YANK" the racket all the way back as Nick Bollettieri once recommended in a fit of missunderestimation.

    No, halfway through the smooth tug I'd prefer to change function primarily to thumb and middle finger of hitting hand with middle finger dominant and twiddling racket to outside.

    This means the strings will slightly close. As may opposite hand now lightly supporting the throat but maybe you can just roll the throat on fingers of that opposite hand.

    At least this way, George, the substantial alterations will be out of the way. The arm will be all ready to straighten in response to a bit of forward hips turn.

    Next, George, you could spear a bit to the outside. Then clench your shoulderblades violently together to send energy in an altogether different direction. (Think how fast your strings would fan upward!) I know you'd dig the violence of this like any angry male.

    Well, you asked me to explain the shot, right? We were playing against each other and you said, "That's an interesting shot, John. Could you explain it for me after we're done?"

    No? You didn't say that? Must have imagined it.
    Last edited by bottle; 12-21-2013, 07:03 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Yes. (And forwarded to Maxine-- a voice from Sweden.)

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  • don_budge
    replied
    A Christmas Carol...

    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    He Crachits the ball.

    You should see my 11-year-old hitting partner Maxine playing Tiny Tim's sister in 35 paid performances of CHRISTMAS CAROL.

    Her job is to show that poor kids can be happy. Her smile is so sustained that it is eery. This may be the realism of poverty but the surrealism, too.
    One of the most important questions of the day has always been...what relationship is there between happiness and being either rich or poor.

    After performing this part 35 times that question may be indelibly imprinted on young Maxine's being and social consciousness for the rest of her life. Giving her a good perspective for life in the future.

    Big congratulations to her! And "Merry Christmas...especially to all of those that are poor. Being poor doesn't necessarily mean that you are not rich...or happy for that matter."

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  • bottle
    replied
    For the Senior Sweep Oarsman Who Plays Tennis With His Feathering Hand

    Let us call him Runningwake, a name out of Homer. He should try some John McEnroe forehands with a straight wrist, only add a bit of backward finger twiddle.

    An oarsman's finger twiddle is more powerful than most. If he feathered 6 million times in college, he may have used backward finger twiddle 3 million times.

    His forearm and wrist were also involved in this turning of blade parallel to the water, but that will only suggest unified athleticism as he eggrolls the ball.

    The 3 million repetitions with their clear suggestion of mastery will more than exceed the rigorous standard of the great jock Malcolm Gladwell.

    Usually, for any tennis player to whom I am recommending "terrible twiddle," I say employ this phenomenon somewhere else in the ground stroke cycle and don't do it while actually sandwiching contact, but in this case, go ahead.

    Why listen to me? Because I am the only person giving this advice.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Racket Opening Up in front of The Body

    I don't think people talk enough about how racket tries to change its pitch out in front unless you stop this with a compensating roll.

    In addition a racket face opens more severely if your arm swings close to the body, and then racket tip doesn't (naturally) come around as much.

    The greater the separation of hand from body to the side the less of this opening of pitch there is in a ground stroke.

    Implications for a Tony Trabert patterned one hand backhand with double twiddle probability off of an initial eastern grip:

    TWIDDLE ONE with thumb rolling racket down over middle finger makes an eastern backhand grip think it's a continental. Good opportunity here for a wide swing combined with forward arm roll.

    TWIDDLE TWO with middle finger rolling handle down over thumb makes the eastern grip think it's semiwestern and could indicate the classic dictum to "pull straight on a rope," which is good prescription only if you realize that this swing is going to fly closer past the body.

    And roll is apt to come late, more suddenly, with goal implicit of scraping strings up the outside of the ball.
    Last edited by bottle; 12-17-2013, 10:29 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Tweak

    Thanks.

    Forehand: If you fully lay back the wrist with a 3.5 grip while keeping the hand pretty low somewhere around waist height the racket head goes UP.

    Which makes for a deeper "pat the dog."

    I'm adding a little backward finger twiddle to this gradual wrist layback at the same time.

    That way I get an early racket face closing the way a semiwestern grip does but retain the eastern grip virtues.
    Last edited by bottle; 12-17-2013, 05:24 AM.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    I'm totally with you on Hoad and Krosero. As for Trabert, my personal interpretation of his backhand is just a straight back or rather straight around levelness of racket head followed by a transitional lowering of the racket tip and a spiraling uppercut through the ball-- can't see how this would be slow, but I'm not scheduled to play doubles for a couple of days, and that with geezers anyhow, and there is too much snow on the ground for self-feeds outside. It was cross-country skiing by the frozen great lake today and very beautiful.

    To me the rolling open and closed is similar to Don Budge (and Ken Rosewall for that matter), only starts out with racket tip lower and more level.

    I admit that in one of the Krosero sequences Trabert's racket does seem to swing down before it swings up but I didn't see that in the others (the other sequences of Trabert).

    In any case, this is more about the economical thing I want to try, at least in my upcoming book TENNIS WILL COME TO YOU. Steve gave me permission to use that title. But maybe I shouldn't reveal anything. Before me, someone may come out with a book called TENNIS WILL COME TO YOU X just as there is a TennisOne X and soon no doubt will be a TennisPlayer X.
    I'll try the Trabert backhand on Wednesday and report back. I compared it to Federer's and there is definitely something more time consuming going on. I can't be sure of this until I try it for myself.

    Shame I am not your side of the pond. I'd a shovel the snow so we could crack on a try out the stroke together...compare notes. As it stands we'll just have to compare notes via the forum. Shame...I'm a good feeder. No doubt you are too.

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  • bottle
    replied
    I'm totally with you on Hoad and Krosero. As for Trabert, my personal interpretation of his backhand is just a straight back or rather straight around levelness of racket head followed by a transitional lowering of the racket tip and a spiraling uppercut through the ball-- can't see how this would be slow, but I'm not scheduled to play doubles for a couple of days, and that with geezers anyhow, and there is too much snow on the ground for self-feeds outside. It was cross-country skiing by the frozen great lake today and very beautiful.

    To me the rolling open and closed is similar to Don Budge (and Ken Rosewall for that matter), only starts out with racket tip lower and more level.

    I admit that in one of the Krosero sequences Trabert's racket does seem to swing down before it swings up but I didn't see that in the others (the other sequences of Trabert).

    In any case, this is more about the economical thing I want to try, at least in my upcoming book TENNIS WILL COME TO YOU. Steve gave me permission to use that title. But maybe I shouldn't reveal anything. Before me, someone may come out with a book called TENNIS WILL COME TO YOU X just as there is a TennisOne X (and boy does it suck whether a book or X website) and soon no doubt there will be a TennisPlayer X and I'm sure that will suck. All imitations except for imitations of tennis strokes suck.
    Last edited by bottle; 12-16-2013, 03:00 PM.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Trabert and Hoad

    Funny backhand Trabert's. The way he first lifts the racket up then goes in to a mini loop. I find it a little quirky. So much more interesting these old players, so much more individuality. The game was still slow enough back then to allow for quirkiness. That maneuver of Trabert's would be too costly in today's rocket-propelled game.

    I find 1954 clip quite wonderful to watch. I find different things to wonder everytime I view it.

    I like Hoad's confident demeanor most of all. He walks around like he owns the court. Head up and shoulders back. Kind of like Becker used to but in a much less big-headed way. Becker imposed himself like a bully; Hoad is just sheer confidence and self-assuredness. I like Hoad's on court demeanor more than any other player I can think of. I think it's perfect.

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