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  • bottle
    replied
    Tennis Names

    I love such tennis names as Ray Bender, Bill Hair and Roger Horsley.

    Roger has asked me to play doubles with himself and two other good players on Monday morning at 6:30 a.m. I can't wait.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Aspiration

    I don't see why somebody shouldn't aspire to Tom Okker's forehand.

    He is a little guy with long arms-- surely not a best example therefore for klacr or me who am a big guy but not as big as klacr.

    I just figure that I've been shortening my strokes and therefore would have fun with a huge forehand for contrast, a special to unleash not more than once or twice in a match.
    Last edited by bottle; 11-20-2014, 07:55 AM.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Tom Okker and our very own Klacr

    Originally posted by bottle View Post

    All of Tom Okker's forehands are hit with a loop. All of John McEnroe's forehands are hit from a stop, i.e., a change of direction. Anyone trying to hit like John McEnroe even if just some of the time can play with his pause, shrinking or expanding it.
    Okker's forehand must be the loosest looking stroke in history...and his serve. It is the opposite in some respects to Klacr's. Okker let the ball fall a long way off the bounce and lowered the racket head considerably to meet the ball (considerably lower than many of his era). Klacr hardly lets the ball fall at all and barely lowers the racket either.

    It's hard to find clips of Okker's forehand on the Internet. Why? Simply because in the clips you'll find, none of his opponents hit to his forehand.

    Luckily I saw it in the late 70s in all its glory. It was quite a sight. One of the best of its time.
    Last edited by stotty; 11-18-2014, 03:22 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Passing Shots vs. Other Shots: Different Mechanics?

    Depends first on whether one is squeezing time or is in a wait, i.e., is in the frame of mind known as relaxed and deceptive delay.

    Depends second on how much experience one has with stopped backswing. We most of us start with stopped backswing in the very beginning of our tennis career. Later on, the picture is different.

    All of Tom Okker's forehands are hit with a loop. All of John McEnroe's forehands are hit from a stop, i.e., a change of direction. Anyone trying to hit like John McEnroe even if just some of the time can play with his pause, shrinking or expanding it.

    On either forehand or backhand side, one's normal shot is apt to be one's fastest. By "fastest" I'm not talking about pace here but rather duration of shot mechanics. How much time does one take to get the shot off?

    A backhand pass could be one's normal loop shot or a shot in which racket was first held still and high.

    Many people no doubt are better off not thinking about this and keeping one system for every situation.

    A different system for some passes for some players however has to be worth every bit of experiment.
    Last edited by bottle; 11-18-2014, 07:29 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    When You Gonna Bow, Paysan?

    I went down in the basement to look for one of my favorite tennis books ever, MASTERING YOUR TENNIS STROKES. Couldn't find it although I located VLADIMIR NABOKOV: LECTURES ON LITERATURE and SAUDI ARABIA THROUGH THE EYES OF AN ARTIST by Malin Basil.

    What I wanted to figure out is exactly where Tom Okker takes his body angle to hit his full topspin forehand.

    Why? Because I figure he has a grip pretty close to mine. And because in self-feed today I was hitting hugely looped but maybe not so stupid forehands in which arm motion flows into a same speed mild topple of the upper body and head.

    The premise of this forehand as in most of the shots I've been exploring recently is that tennis is golf on wheels.

    And that a golfer addresses the ball with straight (and firm) upper body slightly bent over from the hips to create nice separation between body and club head.

    A tennis player ought to assume the same position, I figure. The next question is when.

    The question after that is whether the golfer maintains this slightly bent from the hips posture until the end of his followthrough.

    Clearly, the answer is no and neither should the tennis player. There is a straightening of the body which improves the quality of any shot. Forgive me or don't for calling the straightening Alexander Ragtime.

    This-- the shot I was self-feeding-- is designed only for occasional use. I set it up with other shots that tell me exactly where or when to bow.
    Last edited by bottle; 11-14-2014, 10:18 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Why Should Runaround Be So Difficult?

    It won't be if you are confident in knowing what to do regardless of type of backswing.



    The unit turn blends into a small retreat with right foot as hips bulge out.

    The retreat is "small" in that right foot does not pass left.

    The weight can settle on right foot to initiate the hit.

    That is a two-step runaround with significant ground covered thanks to the big width of Roger's split-step.

    This move seems so easy that I may have been doing it all along. In any case it becomes more conscious for a while.

    Then I may or may not proceed to the more elaborate runarounds that cover more ground depending on how much I value my backhands.

    For you, though, reader, examining more of these huge, beautiful videos with grab-on capsule provided where Roger gets WAY OVER in his backhand corner may be a shrewd idea.
    Last edited by bottle; 11-14-2014, 01:00 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Junior Backhand: Why Tweak Something that is Working Well?

    Because a love that isn't getting better all the time is getting worse all the time.

    Because nothing stands still.

    Oh sorry, reader, if I just upset you.

    Emboldened I am by the teaching pro who caught me down by the lake yesterday in self-feed but didn't think what I was doing was silly at all, in fact took time off from his private lessons to show me some self-feed drills in case I didn't already know them (hit from one end of the alley to opposite end of alley, etc.).

    "Right," I said. "And you could mess around with grips. It doesn't matter how old you are."

    "Right," he said. "There are all kinds of things you can do."

    It helped that the time we played together we won 6-0 .

    Back to my junior backhand, reader. Perhaps you have something equivalent in your own arsenal, a small but reliable shot.

    I point the racket at the side fence even extending from the elbow a small bit. I turn my level shoulders to the max. All this is SIM. Reader, will you mind if I keep the focus here? I'd like you to understand that my subsequent stepping toward the net on a 45-degree angle will bring the racket around to the conventionality of pointing at rear fence but am afraid that you and I both may find this a distraction.

    So back to initial move which of course includes all the elements of a good unit turn. Here is where I shall tweak although my precisely worked out waiting position is the lynchpin of three different forehand backswings.

    But I want to hit a bigger one hand backhand now. Instead of adding a humongous behind the back loop I will have already adopted a different waiting position.

    Does this announce the shot? I hope so. Maybe I can disconcert my opponent and make him think too much.

    I drop shoulder and hands to bring racket tip up to the normal waiting position. But something is different. What? Do I need to know?

    Now when I have stepped and am re-rotating my hips to finish straightening my arm and am also re-rotating my shoulders to get them parallel to sideline I can smoothly tilt shoulder up to where I want it: level or slightly less than level.

    I will have added aeronautical banking to create a special shot designed only for occasional use.
    Last edited by bottle; 11-14-2014, 05:27 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Speculative Plan for Rotorded Servers, i.e., Try It, Rotorded Ones

    Time arm to finish getting completely bent when racket tip has turned out to its farthermost point toward right fence.

    The idea is to maximize both halves of a full throw. The first half is external arm rotation. Maximize it. The second half is internal arm rotation. Maximize it.

    At the same time, maximize arm bend and loose arm extension activated entirely by the internal arm rotation which first looks like a tomahawk throw before flaring out to the right.

    The arm must have straightened by contact.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Thankee

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  • don_budge
    replied
    The Run Around…sans McEnroe

    Originally posted by bottle View Post
    To consider another variation now, it is hard to imagine John McEnroe ever running around his backhand to hit a forehand.
    What an interesting observation.
    Last edited by don_budge; 11-13-2014, 02:09 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...

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  • bottle
    replied
    Topple

    Ramrod back hinges (mildly bows) only from the hips.

    McEnrueful: Do this at change of direction, the precise pause between backswing and foreswing.

    Federfore: Insert without disrupting at end of dog pat.

    Will the smooth swing then be remarkable? Yes through being longer with low point farther forward so that beginning of swing is a down before up with solid arm-body connection through the down.

    Am talking about two different grips but Alexandrian body extension in both shots or restoration of tall posture through the most vigorous part of the stroke.

    Late topple is saved for elegant, unrushed shots.

    In case of long emergency runs to ball the topple is part of the starter block acceleration. The golfer's lean can be kept through the subsequent footwork until one is actually hitting the ball.

    Non-believing teaching pros may tell their students to only copy Roger's supposed mannerism if not basic of staring back at contact point after the ball is gone. Roger's Orphean look-back is considered evidence of a still head when actually it is just "keep your eye on the ball." For the head has just gone down and is coming up (is MOVING for crying out loud) and therefore requires more than normally intense concentration and eye-work if it isn't going to spoil the stroke.

    To consider another variation now, it is hard to imagine John McEnroe ever running around his backhand to hit a forehand.

    One could do this however to hit a McEnrueful using down and up backswing combined with Roger's footwork.

    The topple or taking of body angle occurs early as Roger moves to his left. Butt moves left to get away from the ball. Another way of putting this is that butt segments under shoulders. In this video, the bulging of the butt creates a momentum that brings Roger's right foot after it and then replaces left foot nearer to the left fence. The ball then could be hit off of either foot:

    Last edited by bottle; 11-12-2014, 07:46 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    How to Invent in Tennis or Anything

    1) Envision.

    2) Try to do it.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Pure Speculation: Cool vs. Emergency

    The slight bowing at hips (shoulders going one way or hips the other or both) corresponds to the broom toppling over in repeating video in this article on Alexander Method provided by gzhpcu.



    But the perfectly postured jab with outside foot identified by 10splayer as characteristic Federer means that the mild bow into golfer's separation only occurs when Roger gets to ball.

    Alexander ragtime happens in that case in the process of Roger hitting the ball.

    A new bow happens as Roger returns to center having traveled way out to his right. All such recoveries are emergency and top priority intensity, one could say, emergency and routine combined in one. One may or may not be able to relax while moving to a ball but never while getting back. That's where one must be fast-- always.

    Ragtime (or Alexander "Method" if you prefer) can happen both for movement and to hit the ball. One strikes high like a rattlesnake either to get someplace or to hit the ball.

    The previous bow from hips is always mild like toppling of the broom.

    Options now emerging are upright leg jab (and probably two more steps) or gravity step for distant (emergency) balls.

    In the emergency cases of wide balls to one's forehand side, the broom has already toppled, so why should you bother to restore your perfect posture until you are in the process of hitting the ball?

    Playing cool with either a McEnrueful or Federfore or any forehand however is most fun. Look at all the fun John McEnroe and Roger Federer have by staying perfectly upright so much of the time.
    Last edited by bottle; 11-11-2014, 11:12 AM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Hips That Counter Direction Of Travel

    In the next one, Roger goes slightly to his right but his hips go slightly to his left, which would be when his shoulders get on the new axis that will make the hitting shoulder revolve downward before it revolves up. This process resembles the golfer’s exercise where one threads a pin behind one’s tilted back and then does practice swings. In the case of a tennis player or Roger just in case he is the only tennis player, the moment of greatest tilt is very fleeting and occurs when the hips suddenly slide away from the ball as if they don’t like it. This is going to start a lot of banking. A straightness of back from hips up is a principle ingredient:



    The countering of hips to direction of travel becomes apparent when one studies them in relation to the printed letters on wall behind.

    Later addition: Wow. Now I don't see hips moving from moviemaker's left to right across the word "bank" but rather staying put at the "b" of that word.

    The upper body, on the other hand, bends from the hips toward the upper caste B of BNP PARIBAS, and Roger's head therefore goes slightly down on that B as well.

    The point is not to get hung up on small distinction but rather to realize that forward body turn, not some sort of transition between backswing and foreswing establishes low point. If one does this on a Federfore or McEnrueful or any other forehand, one swings fast through a low point that may be farther forward (and lower) than one thought.

    The transition preparing for this is the slight bowing from hips however it happens.
    Last edited by bottle; 11-10-2014, 07:39 PM.

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  • bottle
    replied
    Keep Going

    Look for banking in other clips, these and others.

    One might even find the banking in YouTube, but not as good as this one.
    Oh, the shoulders didn’t bank quite up to level this time! Interesting. The small plane, a Maule, still has right wing down a little:



    I now go searching real time for a forehand where right wing banks higher than left wing.

    Only at the very end—possibly—after the ball is gone.



    Less banking for this high one, I’d say. A little in the followthrough. But he started with the two wings level.

    Here’s the last entry in the inside out high speed Roger archive:



    A pretty high ball this time but there still is banking from hitting shoulder lowered up to level. I don’t usually see balls that bounce up this high because of the prowess of my competition. But I’m now ready to say that on my Federfore, the norm shall be banking from shoulders tilt to level or to a little less than level.

    Inside in:



    Just the same. But I wonder why Roger Federer started out with right shoulder dropped, then leveled it, then dropped it, then leveled it.

    He must be a human being after all.
    Last edited by bottle; 11-10-2014, 12:45 PM.

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