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A New Year's Serve

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  • Recipe: A Nice Rear-Foot Seniors Topspin Serve

    The key image may be a low ceiling which you push up against with your hand to help you bend your back knee.

    You (I) got the arm completely bent together on the toss. That's early enough to be bizarre.

    I (you) now do the imaginary ceiling trick which means you toss with your hitting arm to half-extension as you coil your back leg.

    Now you fire your hips and bend the upper body slightly over to the left to get it out of the way (rapidly sequential) as your arm finally twists out and up but mostly up.

    Left leg can gently extend with left foot becoming flat and stable on the court. Right leg (or rear leg, having done its thing) can kick slightly out to right.

    The followthrough is on the left side. The topspin is quite pure, it seems to me.

    Intersperse this serve with hard slice by not bending arm quite so much on the toss and use a fuller, faster, longer hips pivot with left leg becoming airborne and kicking back.

    The topspin serve described here is the only serve I've ever hit from concept with no development or practice yet used it to help win all my service games (with good if elderly doubles partners in the equation).
    Last edited by bottle; 07-29-2013, 01:19 PM.

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    • Slice Serve Off Back Foot

      Load the arm with the arm. Throw the racket with arm only then add body turns (horizontal and vertical) at the end to add solidity to the whole shebang.

      Because of the major change to my serving practice-- due to injury-- from front leg to rear leg drive, I feel I've had to relearn everything. There is nothing wrong with that.

      Relearning could be like re-reading a book you didn't like twenty years before at your first attempt "to get it."

      My serve is nothing like this guy's. Dennis Ralston, in these videos, only bends his arm to a right angle, no more.



      But he is the splendiferous example (to use Zorba's word) of someone swinging with the arm before his body chimes in.

      I also think, within rear foot mode, that I'm qualified to achieve the same right-angled serve though from the opposite direction.

      In other words, the arm closes early (i.e., its two halves press together). I see no reason not to start back leg drive at different times or places in the total cycle.

      If the two halves of the arm pressing together becomes the reference point, the leg compression-and-drive combo can start just before, just after, and quite a bit after in middle of the forward throw-- three different serves.

      Have I tried this yet? Of course not but will within the next half-hour.
      Last edited by bottle; 07-30-2013, 07:58 AM.

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      • The complexity is almost infinite, which is the way that tennis should be. Keeps the experts from being too full of themselves (or should).

        How far does elbow get past ear before the body takes over? Some. Nose but out to the side?
        Last edited by bottle; 07-30-2013, 10:27 AM.

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        • Ultimate

          "Put the face on the ball flat, AND THEN go around it just a little as you press it out and pull down...don't slice until after you are on the ball."

          This is the dreaded and normatively reviled advice to "carve your serve."

          But rules are made to be broken by those who know them.

          Bend the stick the other way.

          Pure John M. Barnaby. His book, RACKET WORK: THE KEY TO TENNIS, came out at the same time as TENNIS FOR THE FUTURE by Vic Braden.

          One book went boffo; the other quickly became a collector's item.

          But when I along with 500 other passionate persons met Vic Braden in Winchester, Virginia, he hit a pyramid of four balls on the service sideline extremely close to the net on his first try.

          How did he do that? Did he read John M. Barnaby? I don't know where that Vic-trick came from.

          I only know I'm back in the hunt for it, gyrating pre-dawn curlicues and figure eights while still in bed, practicing at mid-day the three rear-footed serves recently described in this thread and now embarking on a fourth-- a carved number with pave-loader finish for exquisite feel.

          This serve breaks all the rules. And helped me and my partner win a final against a good high school first team in Berryville, Virginia.

          "Externally rotate the upper arm for vast power." Not on this one. In fact, I want throttled down speed at one-tenth the norm.

          Yup, I now return to my old swisher with a rear wheel drive version I haven't invented but know will work.

          Give me a week.
          Last edited by bottle; 07-31-2013, 01:35 PM.

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          • Simple-Minding A Forehand (And Composed In A Shower)

            Open, nudge, tap, flip, ship...this old man came rolling home.

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            • Making One's Bowled Backswing Continental FH As Reliable AP

              Try Susan Pendo's Tennis Channel tip of keeping a coin balanced on frame for all of the backswing and dynamic drop and level swing between the horns.

              After you've passed the second horn, consider rolling the racket over. Exception: When you start your roll at contact to hit slightly above center line of the strings.

              The rolled shots are probably very good but not quite as reliable as those hit with the racket perfectly square. (Middle of the strings will then be best place for a clean interchange of energy.)

              But what are these "horns" I'm talking about? Damned if I know. Perhaps I have some hallucinatory image in mind of stunning a longhorn bull which may not please Temple Grandin.

              Lately I've been trying to bring contact point for this shot back just a little to minimize the need for all adjustments. When one studies the different Tennis Player videos of John McEnroe's forehand, one sees contacts in which racket is either square or slightly beveled-- if beveled, emphatic roll already started.

              Clearly, it's time for me to post a link to "long toss" at Jaegersports once again.

              The famous long toss exercise in baseball (on a football field) can teach a tennis player how to enliven his or her arm like nothing else.

              The knowledge applies to ground strokes, serves, overheads, lobs, volleys-- pretty much everything.

              Last edited by bottle; 08-01-2013, 12:02 PM.

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              • Re Short Soft Slice of # 1714

                So how's the effort of this right-hander to hit deuce service court sideline at halfway point? Coming along but with difficulty.

                Should arm be bent at a right angle like Dennis Ralston's or start completely bent on the toss?

                Where should elbow get to-- forward or back? Hit target (sometimes) both ways so decided to put elbow halfway between these extremes.

                The best idea might be to stay tall with just a little body sway and establish a slow race between elbow and racket as both turn forward with racket slightly ahead to put strings flat on ball just before the hand and body carve.

                Is this clear? Probably not. You no longer are using "external rotation" of the upper arm for propulsion, so you use it for the non-propulsive placement of the strings flat on the ball. The elbow circles around to the right. The racket tip circles around to the left. The arm slowly and non-propulsively extends. And all this and probably something else one doesn't know about takes place SIM.
                Last edited by bottle; 08-02-2013, 04:13 AM.

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                • Short Slice Wide

                  Kick slice wide would be good, too, but I'd love to master the very soft version-- so spectacular but more important, effective. Watch baseball and then tell me that an off-speed pitch mixed with the hard stuff doesn't work.

                  My old friend Ochi, who grew and maintains a grass court near Princeton, New Jersey, always has people there (I think) of all levels of tennis expertise at play. Ochi has pointed out how few young hotshots have ever bothered to learn wide, soft slice, and even suggests that they don't usually locate their serves particularly well, either.

                  Why would that be? Not because the soft wide serve is a lousy serve-- it isn't. It's just very hard to learn so well that one can produce it under pressure.

                  Such mastery of this shot, I believe, would have the same relaxing effect on one's whole game that good dropshots have, i.e., if you're hitting good dropshots, you derive both psychological and physiological benefit.

                  Okay, soft-wide-low is a great shot, but how does one learn it? 1) Eliminate knee bend and thrust, just get knees comfortably bent and keep them there? 2) Keep head very, very still throughout the coming to the ball stage of the serve. 3) Discover all the other complexities and then over-think them.

                  Over-thinking technique obtained for me the very best features of my present game, so why shouldn't I continue on the same path? Over-thinking if not overdone of course enables one not to think later.
                  Last edited by bottle; 08-02-2013, 12:03 PM.

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                  • In actual doubles, this didn't work, despite the promising self-feed solitaire the day before. I may have won a few points with it, but not to my satisfaction, and mostly relied on other serves. Next to try: Reversion away from continental grip back to eastern, the idea being to put the strings flat on the ball without so much twist to do it.

                    Doing this-- using an eastern grip to serve with occasionally-- is an idea that I'll bet most players never try. I know I almost forgot it. But Charlie Pasarell advocated it in MASTERING YOUR TENNIS STROKES as a temporary measure to restore spin when you return to your accustomed serving grip (probably continental or mild eastern backhand).

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                    • A Narrative Of Preparation

                      Still haven't had time to get to a tennis court, so let's say that the captain of the Rice tennis team five years from now has huge topspin and pace on all of his serves and typically makes 12 clean aces in a two out of three set singles match.

                      His second serve paralyzes his opponents, especially his short kick in the ad court since he is right-handed.

                      His best serve is hard slice veering off from deep in the deuce far court.

                      But he started dreaming of soft, wide, low-bouncing slice, also from deuce to deuce court, during the long third recovery from meniscus repair in his left knee.

                      That was the time when he first started development of his rear leg serve.

                      His red-haired Greek girlfriend Julie, a dancer at Rice, advised him never in his life to think of knee replacement and always to play through pain.

                      Well, today is the day when he will turn his hand clockwise from his normal grip and try with no internal arm rotation other than what he needs to help take strings up to backside of the ball for a slow carve coming down that ends in the pave-loader finish he witnessed in two photographs in an old tennis book.

                      He has no idea how this experiment will pan out or what serving rhythm it will require and how its rhythm and special mechanics will resemble his other serves or contrast with them.
                      Last edited by bottle; 08-04-2013, 06:11 AM.

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                      • Austerity and truth

                        Playwright Mark Ravenhill says funding cuts could be "a good thing" for the arts because artists would be less "safe and well behaved".
                        Stotty

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                        • What a nice fresh look for me into the arts scene in another country. Here in the United States, I've always thought that the wrong people invariably receive the NEA grants. I've never known what the E stands for, so I'll call these things National Edification in the Arts awards. And as Mark Ravenhill correctly points out, edification can stultify-- a correctly grim view.

                          On the other hand my friend Heather, a wonderful poet, pool player and comedienne, suddenly received half a million dollars one day from the MacArthur Genius Awards and without having to fill out forms or do anything other than be Heather. I was greatly encouraged by that, and encouragement is really important, and I thank you for yours.
                          Last edited by bottle; 08-05-2013, 04:09 AM.

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                          • Re # 1720

                            Hit the pyramid (very close to the net) after two and a half baskets, then went promptly home. Would like to think that these eastern grip serves helped the spin in my other serves. Got closer and closer to the target before I hit it and this encouraged me. The most controlled serves were those in which the arm needled on the toss, and then, as elbow came round toward ball a bit more, the arm opened easily to about a right angle and the rest of the hit proceeded from there.

                            No, a day later I don't think so. The needled arm came around and the whole serve proceeded from there. Well, the truth was one or the other.
                            Last edited by bottle; 08-05-2013, 04:11 AM.

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                            • Simplification

                              "Simplify, simplify, simplify," said the best American philosopher. That would be Ralph Waldo Emerson.

                              Some tennis players seem to believe that such advice means "Don't think."

                              Too simple.

                              Few tennis players however, whether they admire John McEnroe's forehand or not, would deny that it's stripped down to essentials.

                              The simplest aspect of it, as far as I am concerned, is that the arm can drop like a paper cutter and just as racket reaches the bottom of its edged fall, the hips fire to transform the shoulder into a slingshot.

                              This knowledge only slightly modified can then apply to the ATP Style Forehand and other shots.

                              The best illustration I know of the power inherent in this system is two properly warmed up guys ever so easily throwing a baseball from one end of a football field to the other.
                              Last edited by bottle; 08-05-2013, 09:16 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Back Foot Carve

                                Use normal serving grip and preparation but cock the wrist with none of the usual "ulna to radius deviation" stuff. Just open wrist toward the sky the way Vic Braden told Richie Ley not to do in TENNIS FOR THE FUTURE.

                                Page 77 of LIFETIME TREASURY OF TESTED TENNIS TIPS by Bill Murphy and Chet Murphy: "Don't Carve Your Serve."

                                Page 70 of RACKET WORK: THE KEY TO TENNIS by John M. Barnaby: "Carve Your Service."

                                My synthesis: Don't ever carve your serve except for the trick shot under development here.

                                The wrist: Goes from completely bent in one direction to completely bent in the other. Prolonged use of wrist in this way creates desired spin and the "pave-loaded" finish. As an exercise, start from finish and swish this total wrist action in both directions. Take racket up a little at a time, swishing all the while, until final swish is prolonged the whole way from imagined contact to pave-loader finish. The idea is that if the pave-loader's bucket behind you were loaded, the dirt wouldn't fall out.

                                Sink onto heel of front foot. The rear-footed body whirl is a lesser version of more powerful, shot-put-like serves in which the front foot kicks back. Because of minimized whirl, you don't get hurt even though your foot gets locked flat. For more powerful shot-putter variations, make the front foot go airborne or incur serious injury!

                                If you believe, reader, in learning through opposites, this experiment will help you know what not to do on most of your serves.

                                In my basic serving pattern of the moment the palm down racket arm closes most of the way toward its physical limit on the toss-- to a far more squeezed together position than traditional right angle trophy.

                                I then squeeze a bit more toward needled elbow as I simultaneously coil on rear foot. That won't change in the new shot, but I'll helicopter the needling elbow forward and open wrist toward the sky at the same time also SIM with the leg coil-- a lot to remember at first but easy to do after a few repetitions.

                                Notes: 1) In a court session, best serves occurred when I pressed out with the arm while pressing down with the shoulders. Was wrist lagged then before the carve began? Yes. The basic concept in all Barnabian elocutions is that nature of spin is determined by which edge of the racket leads off of the ball.

                                2) Knowledge becomes scary when you feel yourself departing from a set of dependable principles like those of Dennis Ralston for producing slice. Essentially, he wants the body to stay still while the arm does its work. Then around the time of contact, the body chimes in. The serve described here does not work that way. The body whirls and then pulls down. The unique racket work pushes out toward the net before it gets pulled down. And what is the main feature of this motion from the arm? Old-fashioned and slow wrist closure from one extreme position to the other.

                                3) In modern day serving the wrist cocks (ulna to radius deviation) around the bottom of the drop. In this oldie but goodie the wrist cocks before the two halves of the arm press completely together. And the major emphasis in all of these special rear-footers is in hips pivoting to passively squeeze the arm into closure and pre-load-- that more than a great rise of the body up into the air.

                                4) The way for arm to press out toward the net, as required for ball to clear the net in this special out wide carved slice version, is full extension from fully coiled arm.

                                5) Fingers can relax and close to add to the facility of the old-fashioned wrist action about to occur.

                                6) What happens if, after all this thought and fooling around, one starts hitting a different kind of cannonball and not soft wide slice? Go with it, I would say. The new serve certainly won't behave the same as your others. Satchel Paige had lots of pitches. What's wrong with that?

                                7) I think that the Ralston model of arm first, body second, is reversed here. I see body rotation being cut short by front leg straightening as it settles down on its heel.

                                8) In fact, the body whirls as the arm sends racket head straight toward the ball. The body then stops whirling horizontally as the arm, carving, accelerates. The body, however, does continue to whirl, but vertically, adding weight to the ball.

                                9) Take it easy in getting strings to the ball even though your hips loaded up your shoulder to transform it into a slingshot.

                                10) Toss ball, arcing, way out front.

                                11) Just because a very advanced player may generously have taken you to the side one time and told you to keep your elbow back while serving doesn't mean you should have listened to him-- except when you are delivering an elbow-lined-up-with-both-shoulderballs serve.
                                Last edited by bottle; 08-09-2013, 04:40 AM.

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