For Mr Frausto,

[uspta146749877]

Dear Mr Frausto,
thank you for your response about Montfils.

I hope you do not mind another question.

High Performance Newsletter of USTA Volume 9 No 3
provides comparison of forehands by Murray and Tsonga.
I hope you received a copy of a newsletter in your snail mail.
If not I can send you a copy.
An online version is NOT available yet.
Do you have any thoughts about this particular comparison?
The latter looks more compact.
Thank you,
julian mielniczuk
uspta pro,Bedford,ma

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

[uspta2448519013]

Julian,

I glanced over it briefly when I received it but misplaced it so I'm not sure where it is at the moment. If you have an extra I'd read over it again and comment on it, hopefully the USTA website puts it online soon and I'll take a closer look at it.

Jason Frausto

[uspta146749877]

For Mr.Frausto,

Dear Mr.Frausto,
if you have a fax nunber I can send you a newsletter by fax.
Thank you
julian
uspta pro

PS I put a post about a linear and angular momentum
but nobody responded.
I guess everybody is in florida

[uspta2448519013]

The fax is 920-929-9159, I sent you a pm but your box must be full at the moment. I'll have a chance to take a look at it over the weekend. Thanks for taking the time to send it.

Jason Frausto

[uspta146749877]

For Mr.Frausto

The fax is 920-929-9159, I sent you a pm but your box must be full at the moment. I'll have a chance to take a look at it over the weekend. Thanks for taking the time to send it.

Jason Frausto

Dear Mr.Frausto,

1.a fax will come at the end of a day Friday this week or Monday next week.
It should contain 4 pages total plus a cover page.
It will come from my wife-her last name is Krowczynska/Waters Corp
no relation to Heath Waters

2.Please note that Tsonga is hitting INSIDE OUT forehand
and Murray is hitting CROSS-COURT.
To some extent we compare apples with oranges but it everything what I got.

3.You may see as well

http://www.playerdevelopment.usta.com/pdmediabooks/assets/men/Jo-Wilfried%20Tsonga/PerformanceAnalysis.html

please click forehand in the menu
and

http://www.playerdevelopment.usta.com/pdmediabooks/assets/men/Andy%20Murray/PerformanceAnalysis.html

please click forehand in the menu

4.If you have any problems with seeing those clip please let me know.
Clicking one of buttons at a bottom of a screen allows to see
in a FULL SCREEN MODE

5.A Murray's forehand was described as inferior to forehands of Federer,Nadal and Djokovic at this forum.I am NOT sure who was an author of a post.

6.An interesting question is:
if you have to bet your house whose forehand is producing quicker ball ?
julian usptapro 27873

[uspta2448519013]

Julian,

Much appreciated, I was the author of the post suggesting that Murray has an inferior forehand compared to the big 3. It's not that he can't beat them with it, but he's forced to typically play a more defensive game with his forehand. Understanding his own game Murray is intelligent enough to know that he isn't going to be blasting forehands from everywhere in the court like his compatriots so he tends to roll it more and play more defensive on that side while wearing down opponents or causing damage with his backhand. He will step up and play big shots off of short balls, he has to and those are easier balls so he's not as likely to miss. He isn't however all that likely to be offensive from positions far behind the baseline like the big 3.

More recently he's started to go for more on his forehand side but it's not nearly as devastating as the forehands of the big 3. He's also fortunate enough to have a huge serve which lets him shorten points on his service games. In my humble opinion if his technique was slightly different on that side he would be even better, his game is otherwise flawless but again he's intelligent enough to know his own limitations and work around them. You can't play that grinding style your entire career without it taking a toll on you, but that big serve helps him shorten up many points as well. I don't remember too many counterpunchers of the past having reliable 140mph+ serves to go to. It's a new breed of counterpuncher really.

Jason Frausto

[airforce1]

Coach Frausto,
My son was home on Christmas break and we were working out to have him ready for the upcoming D-1 season. He mentioned that he was fairly often late on FHs and often had big misses due to trying to speed up the stick to "catch up". The speed of "catching up" would amplify the improper alignment at contact, giving a wild miss that was hard for me to understand out of such an advanced player.

I shared with him some of things I was reading and following in your articles and the discussion on this forum about the takeback. Honestly I had not thought it was that important, and didn't warrant so much attention, but had followed it wondering if maybe it was. I showed him what Murry was doing and compared that to Federer. I'm glad I did, because my son found the info extremely helpful and was able to immediately employ the adjustment. Actually it was quite an amazing transformation. The FH immediately became much more precise with power, and he had no trouble with being late to contact. It was amazing help to his FH serve return, as this is an area where fast prep is paramount. Short balls where improved markedly as well due to better spin and less pressure on his footwork to be as early. There was more too if anyone is interested.

I don't recall anyone stating clearly as to why this take back was superior, but more that it was observed to be. Maybe someone did explain it and I missed that part, but it seems to be about racket head path.

The more the racket head can follow the hand, the faster it can be moved thru the motion, (like the spinning skater) but the more the racket head takes a path outside the hands path (and elbow for that matter), the more it resist movement and is slower.
Or maybe it's how the shoulder should lead the turn, opposed to the hand leading the turn?
Does that agree with what you are seeing?

[uspta146749877]

For Mr Aiforce1

click
http:/the /www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_forehand/rogerfederer_fh_center/rogerfederer_fh_center.html?FedererFHCenterOpenSta nceSide.mov

and see an angle of a face of a Federer's racket at thle apex-he moves
from netural to more closed

[tennis_chiro]

For Airforce

Coach Frausto,
My son was home on Christmas break and we were working out to have him ready for the upcoming D-1 season. He mentioned that he was fairly often late on FHs and often had big misses due to trying to speed up the stick to "catch up". The speed of "catching up" would amplify the improper alignment at contact, giving a wild miss that was hard for me to understand out of such an advanced player.

I shared with him some of things I was reading and following in your articles and the discussion on this forum about the takeback. Honestly I had not thought it was that important, and didn't warrant so much attention, but had followed it wondering if maybe it was. I showed him what Murry was doing and compared that to Federer. I'm glad I did, because my son found the info extremely helpful and was able to immediately employ the adjustment. Actually it was quite an amazing transformation. The FH immediately became much more precise with power, and he had no trouble with being late to contact. It was amazing help to his FH serve return, as this is an area where fast prep is paramount. Short balls where improved markedly as well due to better spin and less pressure on his footwork to be as early. There was more too if anyone is interested.

I don't recall anyone stating clearly as to why this take back was superior, but more that it was observed to be. Maybe someone did explain it and I missed that part, but it seems to be about racket head path.

The more the racket head can follow the hand, the faster it can be moved thru the motion, (like the spinning skater) but the more the racket head takes a path outside the hands path (and elbow for that matter), the more it resist movement and is slower.
Or maybe it's how the shoulder should lead the turn, opposed to the hand leading the turn?
Does that agree with what you are seeing?

I just have to agree that Mr. Frausto's article was terrific. I actually thought this was one of the best issues of tennisplayer ever, but the synergy of the three articles on the forehand backswing was particularly beneficial. The points really applied to some of the stuff I'm working on with my students. Not so much to change what I was doing, but to reinforce it and give them another place to look so they could understand what I was getting at.

And for Airforce's son, you might check the articles I did in May and July on timing. They were really about the backswing as well and the way to deal with a fast deep ball, which may help your son a little bit.

But for Mr. Frausto, you are pointing out the way Murray gets around any deficiency in his forehand, but could you be more specific about what you think is the reason he has a deficiency. I think he just has more game than anyone else out there with the possible exception of Federer. How he handles it on the mental and physical dimension is another question, but he seems to be making some impressive progress in those areas.

don brosseau

[jasonfrausto]

Coach Frausto,
My son was home on Christmas break and we were working out to have him ready for the upcoming D-1 season. He mentioned that he was fairly often late on FHs and often had big misses due to trying to speed up the stick to "catch up". The speed of "catching up" would amplify the improper alignment at contact, giving a wild miss that was hard for me to understand out of such an advanced player.

I shared with him some of things I was reading and following in your articles and the discussion on this forum about the takeback. Honestly I had not thought it was that important, and didn't warrant so much attention, but had followed it wondering if maybe it was. I showed him what Murry was doing and compared that to Federer. I'm glad I did, because my son found the info extremely helpful and was able to immediately employ the adjustment. Actually it was quite an amazing transformation. The FH immediately became much more precise with power, and he had no trouble with being late to contact. It was amazing help to his FH serve return, as this is an area where fast prep is paramount. Short balls where improved markedly as well due to better spin and less pressure on his footwork to be as early. There was more too if anyone is interested.

I don't recall anyone stating clearly as to why this take back was superior, but more that it was observed to be. Maybe someone did explain it and I missed that part, but it seems to be about racket head path.

The more the racket head can follow the hand, the faster it can be moved thru the motion, (like the spinning skater) but the more the racket head takes a path outside the hands path (and elbow for that matter), the more it resist movement and is slower.
Or maybe it's how the shoulder should lead the turn, opposed to the hand leading the turn?
Does that agree with what you are seeing?

Airforce,

Glad that your son was able to improve upon his forehand through some of the articles and topics in the forum. I have a general belief that with stroke mechanics and certainly on the forehand certain preperation and technique is optimal for the best results at the highest level.

And after saying all that Murray beat Federer once again just today in a breaker in the third even with that inferior forehand I've always thought however that the players that give Federer the most trouble were the ones that played counterpunching defensive style games. Fed struggled against Canas, Rafa, Murray, and of course Simon more than attacking players where he can play some fine defense himself. I personally think Fed gets very frustrated playing against the human backboards of the ATP more than any other style of player. I think he finds it insulting that he has to do all the work

I would like to hear more about your son's improvements, I think you commented on being able to go a little further on the topic and his improvements.

As far as my thoughts about the superiority of the closed face position at the top of the backswing it's more theory than anything. From what I've seen and studied the players who have a closed or partially closed face at the top of the backswing have the ability typically to hit the forehand more offensively on a steady basis. To my knowledge Murray is the only top 10 player that has the face in more of a neutral position at the peak of the backswing. Gulbis is the next player that comes to mind and his forehand is absolutely monster but he lacks the ability to pound it for an entire match let alone an entire tournament without making tons of unforced errors.

My theory is that the wrist and face need to be in a similar closed position throughout the majority of the stroke. When teaching I break the forehand down into 6 stages, and that alone would probably be a multi page article on tennisplayer. What I see with Murray and Gulbis is that they don't close the face until stage 4 of the swing, but with most players they not only start the face closed but they go through each stage of the swing in what I consider to be a closed or "safe" position. Murray and Gulbis are in an open position in stage 3 which from what I've seen is too late in the swing to have steady power of the ground without making large numbers of errors.

Which is why Murray is doing it right and Gulbis....well hopefully Gulbis will catch on I'd like to get into it a bit more when I have some more time, but for now it would be interesting to hear about your son and his progress. Take care.

[airforce1]

You lost me with that last comment saying Murry had it right, but otherwise I appreciate what you have said.

My son now needs to drill more to make it automatic. Old habits are tough you know. I want to take those drills and get him to tone his FH in to more a a rally FH at the same time. He tends to be over aggressive with it. It works fine when playing avg players, but breaks down against better comp. My fault for letting him play too many weak events along the way, but it is tough cause of all the player types.

The change improved the FH in 3 areas mainly. It helped w/ hard deep attacks at his FH and rtn of serve. It also helps with attacking short balls where he needs to speed up the stick for extra spin and to adjust for just in time footwork on a hard to reach short FH.

[airforce1]

I just have to agree that Mr. Frausto's article was terrific. I actually thought this was one of the best issues of tennisplayer ever, but the synergy of the three articles on the forehand backswing was particularly beneficial. The points really applied to some of the stuff I'm working on with my students. Not so much to change what I was doing, but to reinforce it and give them another place to look so they could understand what I was getting at.

And for Airforce's son, you might check the articles I did in May and July on timing. They were really about the backswing as well and the way to deal with a fast deep ball, which may help your son a little bit.

But for Mr. Frausto, you are pointing out the way Murray gets around any deficiency in his forehand, but could you be more specific about what you think is the reason he has a deficiency. I think he just has more game than anyone else out there with the possible exception of Federer. How he handles it on the mental and physical dimension is another question, but he seems to be making some impressive progress in those areas.

don brosseau

thanks Don, I will ck the may, jul articles for sure.

[jasonfrausto]

I should clarify, I think Murray has it right because instead of blasting away on nearly every ball like Gulbis he knows the limitation and plays more of a steady spinny ball with his forehand to cut down on errors. I certainly don't think he knows his forehand is technically different than anyone else in the top 10, I think it's something he feels and just knows to lay off on the power until he gets weaker balls to attack.

[airforce1]

I should clarify, I think Murray has it right because instead of blasting away on nearly every ball like Gulbis he knows the limitation and plays more of a steady spinny ball with his forehand to cut down on errors. I certainly don't think he knows his forehand is technically different than anyone else in the top 10, I think it's something he feels and just knows to lay off on the power until he gets weaker balls to attack.

I guessed that is what you meant, but was not sure.

Murray is smart enough to stay with what he has proven he can execute.

[jasonfrausto]

I guessed that is what you meant, but was not sure.

Murray is smart enough to stay with what he has proven he can execute.

Exactly, Murray is a very intelligent player and retriever. He doesn't seem to try to do more than he's capable of , it will be interesting to see how his season turns out. He would be even scarier if he had the big can opener forehand that the current top 3 have. Longevity might be an issue if he keeps playing a defensive oriented game throughout his career.