Statistics of forehand returns vs backhand returns on junior level

[uspta146749877]

Quote:
Originally Posted by uspta4201423750
I'm sure most people would rather hit a forehand return than a backhand return, but I doubt statistics would support the claim that professional players hit more forehand serve returns than backhand returns. If you're playing me and you (like the majority of players at all levels) have a better forehand than backhand, you won't see too many forehands all match. I'll have to watch a match and count what percent serves go where, but I doubt anybody at the pro level is trying to serve to avoid people's backhands. What do you think? Harry

Everybody,
any opinions on this one?
julian

PS It is important to distingnguish TWO possible
level of coaching:
a) junior level
b) professional level

[airforce1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by uspta4201423750
I'm sure most people would rather hit a forehand return than a backhand return, but I doubt statistics would support the claim that professional players hit more forehand serve returns than backhand returns. If you're playing me and you (like the majority of players at all levels) have a better forehand than backhand, you won't see too many forehands all match. I'll have to watch a match and count what percent serves go where, but I doubt anybody at the pro level is trying to serve to avoid people's backhands. What do you think? Harry

Everybody,
any opinions on this one?
julian

PS It is important to distingnguish TWO possible
level of coaching:
a) junior level
b) professional level

My expectation would be that it would vary depending on the quality of a returners 2 hander, as well as the strengths of the server.
Quite a few male players are known to punish balls that wander into the 2 hander strike zone. Going wide on 1st serves works well against the 2 hander, more than against the 1 handers extended range.

So a server who serves fast and out wide well, may choose to hit often to the 2handed bH out wide to go to his strength, against limited reach.
Due to all the strength/weakness matchups, I would think any particular stat relating to avg could be very meaningless.

I move to the ball well and am playing mostly doubles, so the body serve gives me the most trouble; probably the FH body is the hardest for me. Other guys can punish the body serves, so you need to stretch them more**** if you have that serve. My point is it is very complicated and a generality might not have much merit.

[uspta4201423750]

Good points, but I dispute the generalization that two handers have less reach than one handers on topspin shots. Sure you can reach further with one hand, but it's not like guys with 2 handed backhands hit 2 handed slices when the ball is further away. Every 2 handed player on the tour hits a 1 handed slice just like one handers. In fact, 2 handers are much more likely to hit aggresive topspin backhands than 1handers on serve returns. In order to hit a topspin 1hander, the ball must be just as close to the body as it is for 2handers. The slice is a different story since Connors and Santoro are the only players in the last 30 years to hit 2handed slices. Hence the reach advantage for onehanders is not really accurate.

[CraigC]

Another way to look at it.

I'd suggest that serving to the weak side is one method of serving. Another is to set up my strengths.

I would go wide on the deuce side if I wanted to start the point with my forehand. It is a higher percentage return for the returner to hit crosscourt, and therefore forces him to play the lower percentage return if he wants me to start with my backhand. It further allows me to roll him off the court with my backhand angle. Had I served down the middle to his backhand, he'd have an easier play to find my backhand and I'd start the point on my weaker side.

On the ad side, the inside-out return has developed into a pretty big weapon, however, if I serve down the middle, I still feel the easier return is to my forehand. Thus, if I want to start the point with my strength, I may end up serving to my opponent's strength. I will generally do this when my strength is stronger than his.

If I choose to serve to his backhand side, the high percentage return is to my backhand, and thus I will do this when my backhand is stronger than his. I may also choose this serve when I feel I can get around to start the point with my inside-out forehand.

At the highest level, the weaknesses are so small that even weak forehands are still dangerous as hell. Still, I'd say Rafa serves to Fed's backhand for two reasons. One, because it is weaker. Two, because, right from the start, he gets control of the crosscourt diagonal that favors him. Fed is working on tat inside-out backhand return from the deuce side but Rafa still finds a way to get that first ball to Fed's backhand every single time--mostly because Roger's backhand angle isn't good enough to beat Rafa's running forehand.

Well, that's my two cents and a bit of rambling.
CC

[tennis_chiro]

Where the serves are

You can find some interesting stats of where the 1st and 2nd serves hit in the box(right, middle, left) for matches in the French, US Open and Aussie Open. The stats are still up on the last US Open. I've done it in the past for Fed/Nadal and it takes a little bit of work, but the raw data is there. Easier than charting the match. Of course, that doesn't say whether the return was a forehand or backhand, but you can certainly see the trends. Amazing how much Nadal stays off Feds forehand, esp. with 2nd serves.

By contrast, with juniors, I've had players tell me their strategy before matches included serving to the backhand and then seen them let their opponents hit forehand returns most of the time. I HATE that.

don

[airforce1]

Good points, but I dispute the generalization that two handers have less reach than one handers on topspin shots. Sure you can reach further with one hand, but it's not like guys with 2 handed backhands hit 2 handed slices when the ball is further away. Every 2 handed player on the tour hits a 1 handed slice just like one handers. In fact, 2 handers are much more likely to hit aggresive topspin backhands than 1handers on serve returns. In order to hit a topspin 1hander, the ball must be just as close to the body as it is for 2handers. The slice is a different story since Connors and Santoro are the only players in the last 30 years to hit 2handed slices. Hence the reach advantage for onehanders is not really accurate.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think it is very clear that the ideal contact point for a TS 1hander is wider and more in front than for the ideal contact point for a 2 handed TS.

I also contend that players with one handers tend to have better quality slices and are more likely to use it in the right spots, than those players who use a 2hander as their primary. Yes, even in the Pros.
I do realize that this is more subjective, but just how it is on this one (meaning subjective). Yes, I realize that there are players with 2 handers with an excellent slice, but I find them to be the exception.
Is your back hand two handed?

[airforce1]

tennis channel just had a tip about how even pros with 2 handers tend to be below avg with the slice.

[llll]

i agree with craig regarding using the serve to set up the point on the deuce side a wide serve gets them off the court so a n angle repiy to the open court gets them running and me dictating.unless the bh return is noticeably weaker i will serve wide on the deuce side more often in singles. on the ad side same thought process i rather get them running so i preferably try to serve wide. once they see my pattern i can try to hit behind them and wrong foot them