Interactive Forum: November 2008 Philipp Kohlschreiber Backhand

[EricMatuszewski]

Philipp Kohlschreiber is on course to end this year with his highest ever ATP ranking.

How much do his outstanding results have to do with his flowing yet brutal one handed backhand?

This month we take a few views at his graceful wing like follow through and ask the world "What else could you ask for out of a one hander?".


Philipp Kohlschreiber: Backhand 1



Philipp Kohlschreiber: Backhand 2



Philipp Kohlschreiber: Backhand 3

[EricMatuszewski]

QuickTime Versions

Philipp Kohlschreiber: Backhand 1




Philipp Kohlschreiber: Backhand 2




Philipp Kohlschreiber: Backhand 3

[uspta2448519013]

Great stroke! I have to keep forcing myself to model my own similarly to his. Excellent stuff.

[llll]

wish mine looked like that!!!!!!! textbook perfect. good one to model imho

[garybala]

It would be good to see a split screen of Kohl's backhand stroke with Federer's (at his best).

Here's a very very subtle difference I think I see, (I think).

Kohl's backhand is very good, yes, but he seems to be "dancing" into it and through it. His very nice "flow" of the backhand seems to come from his backswing and follow-thru. While Kohl's backhand does indeed have some hip rotation and some coil-uncoil to it (far more than most), Fed's backhand at its best is a perfect execution of the paradigm of COIL AND THEN UNCOIL INTO THE BALL (I.E. FIRST SINK, WITH MAXIMUM COIL, THEN LIFT, WITH MAXIMUM UNCOIL), with full body weight being put into the force of the shot, especially at moment of contact point.

What I seem to see in Kohl's backhand, is just an ever so-slight LESS push or drive or uncoil of his full body weight into the ball at exact moment of the contact point (and just after contact).

At exact moment of contact, his hips and upper body seem a little more straight up rather than blasting or uncoiling its way into the ball at contact.

Notice especially his upper body just after moment of contact. It seems to be straightening up or lifting up, rather then driving thru the ball.

Comments from anyone?

[johnyandell]

The biggest structural difference with Federer is that Kohlschrieber's grip is somewhat more extreme.

You can of course download these clips as well as any Federer clips from the Stroke Archive. You need Quick Time Pro, which is a $30 online upgrade from Apple.

https://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/

After that you can right click and save anywhere in your system.

[normand_trempe]

comparing the best one handers

I have to say i have never seen Kohlschreiber play and so do not know his game style and how he uses his backhand. But it looks really good.

In the previous post someone compared it to federer's and i liked the description of differences between the 2.
Now my question is, do you really want to compare it to federer's backhand ? (not that i am saying it is a bad shot)
But after seeing the wimbledon final live it looked to me like federer was very often hesitant to let it rip and it would put him in difficult situations. I felt that federer had grown too dependant on his FH... So is federer the ultimate one handed backhand is my question to you ?

I would love to see a comparison of Kohlscreibers' with Guga Kuerten's backhand because Guga was able to be much more offensive then Federer with his bh and he could hit clean winners with it from anywhere on the court. Something Federer does not do. What do you guys think of Kuerten's backhand ?
Thanks.

[llll]

to me kuertan had a beautiful backhand but becuase of his wing span it always seemed to me too big to copy with his to exagerated loop.timing to tough for me . fed and the above backhands are more compact and for me easier to emulate and get the timing. choosing the wimbledon final as an example of feds lack of ability to hit winners off that wing i feel is a skewed observation because against almost everyone else he DOES hit backhand winners from anywhere on the court.imho

[normand_trempe]

response to garybala

[QUOTE=garybala;7126]It would be good to see a split screen of Kohl's backhand stroke with Federer's (at his best).

Here's a very very subtle difference I think I see, (I think).

Kohl's backhand is very good, yes, but he seems to be "dancing" into it and through it.

Is the dancing part a negative to you or a positive ?


His very nice "flow" of the backhand seems to come from his backswing and follow-thru.

I agree

While Kohl's backhand does indeed have some hip rotation and some coil-uncoil to it (far more than most), Fed's backhand at its best is a perfect execution of the paradigm of COIL AND THEN UNCOIL INTO THE BALL (I.E. FIRST SINK, WITH MAXIMUM COIL, THEN LIFT, WITH MAXIMUM UNCOIL), with full body weight being put into the force of the shot, especially at moment of contact point.

I am not shure i see more coil from federer..

At exact moment of contact, his hips and upper body seem a little more straight up rather than blasting or uncoiling its way into the ball at contact.
Notice especially his upper body just after moment of contact. It seems to be straightening up or lifting up, rather then driving thru the ball.

This seems to be a characteristic of one handers with more extreme grips. Go watch justin henin's backhand ( i couldnt believe it) and tell me if you think it is a bad thing. She seem's like she is pulling backwards on close to every ball.
But it doens't stop her from coiling and uncoiling into everyball.

let me know what u think. Tova

[normand_trempe]

question to M. matheseuski!!!

Sorry for the mispelling there!!!

One thing i have noticed from Kohlschreiber's backhand is how little hand he uses at impact and after. He has got a really stable hand and forearm at impact, no wrist movement at all. So my question to you is this: a lot of coaches nowadays try to teach a rotation of the forearm at impact like the sort we see a lot of on the forehand side. Do you think that should be taught ? is it bullshit or is it valuable to anyone ?

My coach once tried to do it to me and it didnt feel comfortable at all, i felt i had zero control (although i didnt practice it afterwards) And i don't see the best one handers do it. Kohlschreiber clearly doesnt do it, Kuerten either, Federer either... Thank you and sorry again for the mispelling of your name. Tova

[julian]

Extreme grip

[QUOTE=normand_trempe;7157]

It would be good to see a split screen of Kohl's backhand stroke with Federer's (at his best).

Here's a very very subtle difference I think I see, (I think).

Kohl's backhand is very good, yes, but he seems to be "dancing" into it and through it.

Is the dancing part a negative to you or a positive ?


His very nice "flow" of the backhand seems to come from his backswing and follow-thru.

I agree

While Kohl's backhand does indeed have some hip rotation and some coil-uncoil to it (far more than most), Fed's backhand at its best is a perfect execution of the paradigm of COIL AND THEN UNCOIL INTO THE BALL (I.E. FIRST SINK, WITH MAXIMUM COIL, THEN LIFT, WITH MAXIMUM UNCOIL), with full body weight being put into the force of the shot, especially at moment of contact point.

I am not shure i see more coil from federer..

At exact moment of contact, his hips and upper body seem a little more straight up rather than blasting or uncoiling its way into the ball at contact.
Notice especially his upper body just after moment of contact. It seems to be straightening up or lifting up, rather then driving thru the ball.

This seems to be a characteristic of one handers with more extreme grips. Go watch justin henin's backhand ( i couldnt believe it) and tell me if you think it is a bad thing. She seem's like she is pulling backwards on close to every ball.
But it doens't stop her from coiling and uncoiling into everyball.

let me know what u think. Tova

Could you define,please,a phrase "EXTREME GRIP"

[johnyandell]

I wouldn't say Federer doesn't ever rotate his hand and arm. You might want to check out this article. I'm sure we could find examples in the Kohlschrieber footage as well.

If you look closely at the forward swing you see that even with the classic finish, the hand and arm are turning over 90 degrees or so. But It's less frequent or extreme than the forehand, but it can be double that or so. It appears that this factor is a variation the players use to increase spin.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/one_handed_backhand/hand_and_arm_rotation/hand_and_arm_rotation.html

[oliensis]

Isn't that rotation more about the shoulder supinating (opening) from a pronated (closed) position than it is about the posiion of the hand itself?

[normand_trempe]

[QUOTE=julian;7160]

Could you define,please,a phrase "EXTREME GRIP"

kind of where the palm of the hand is behind the big side of the grip. A semi-western bh i guess you could call it. I have to learn the name for bh grips...

[normand_trempe]

I wouldn't say Federer doesn't ever rotate his hand and arm. You might want to check out this article. I'm sure we could find examples in the Kohlschrieber footage as well.

If you look closely at the forward swing you see that even with the classic finish, the hand and arm are turning over 90 degrees or so. But It's less frequent or extreme than the forehand, but it can be double that or so. It appears that this factor is a variation the players use to increase spin.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/..._rotation.html

Yes you are right i've see federer do it, i wasnt clear i guess. I should have said in general, 90% of the time he doesnt do it. I feel he must do that when he has time and really wants to put some extra speed and spin on the ball. Now to me it feels like that rotation happens by itself as a result of the high acceleration of the hit and that it's a result of the relaxation of the arm after the hit...Do you think Fed practiced that rotation intentionally ? It's just that my coach wanted me to hit every ball like that and it hurt my arm to twist it like that. I'll read the article. Thanks!