Interactive Forum: October 2008 Ernests Gulbis Forehand

[julian]

Murray vs Fed

Any side views of his forehand? Very similar to Murray in his technique, and erratic because of the technical deficiency.

Murray managed to win with his erratic forehand

[airforce1]

Murray managed to win with his erratic forehand

Yes, he wins for many reasons with his well rounded game. He manages his weaknesses very well at this point in his career, as all top players do.

Would you say that blasting short and mid court balls to the corners with a driving FH is something he is known for?
I know I don't think of that when I think of his strong points.

[carrerakent]

muscles the ball

I think if you look at Nadal's videos you will see that he takes his racket back with an open racket face also. He eventually gets it closed but it starts open. I'm not sure that has too much to do with it. I think Gulbis muscles the ball too much and that is what causes those errors.

And Nadal doesn't muscle the ball?

[julian]

the Nadal"s forehand

And Nadal doesn't muscle the ball?

You may find

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/tour_strokes/jason_frausto/how_rafael_nadal_changed_his_forehand/how_rafael_nadal_changed_his_forehand.html

interesting to read

[airforce1]

You may find

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/tour_strokes/jason_frausto/how_rafael_nadal_changed_his_forehand/how_rafael_nadal_changed_his_forehand.html

interesting to read

very interesting read.
It seems to jive with what the earlier poster said about the Gulbis takeback having limitations. Is the poster the same as the writer of the article?

[johnyandell]

OK since nobody else bit, how about the differences in the stance? What happens to his front foot at what point when he steps in and why?

[johnyandell]

Ok rather than askiing Socratic questions, here is what I think.

The massive rotation of the shoulders on the forward swing on most modern forehands makes it impossible for players to hit a traditional square stance forehand with the foot remaining in place.

[oliensis]

John,
In response to your comment I just looked at Jack Kramer's forehand (video in stroke archive). My impression is this: because Kramer is using an eastern grip (looks almost like an Aussie grip (between Eastern and Continental)), his shoulders are at about a 45 degree angle to the baseline when he contacts the ball. By contrast, the modern forehand, with its bigger shoulder turn, more extreme grip, and larger range of motion cranking the hips and shoulders through the stroke, results in the shoulders being more square to the baseline at contact. And because of that difference (I don't recall if you or someone else wrote an article on your site that discusses this difference in the relation of shoulder angle to baseline at contact), the modern forehand results in an earlier "release" of the static front foot in a neutral-stance forehand, relative to Kramer's classic forehand. In fact, Kramer's left foot does release, but just a bit later than Gulbis' neutral-stance forehand in the video.

In my view the windshield-wiper follow-through is also a consequence of the more open relationship of shoulders to baseline at contact point. I also think that the reverse forehand follow-through is a consequence of stopping the rotation of the shoulders prematurely, so the racket releases while the shoulders don't, often as a result of running hard to the right (for right-hander) when hitting...the rightward momentum stops the shoulders from rotating through as they normally do.

My $0.02.
AO

[julian]

Forehand

John,
In response to your comment I just looked at Jack Kramer's forehand (video in stroke archive). My impression is this: because Kramer is using an eastern grip (looks almost like an Aussie grip (between Eastern and Continental)), his shoulders are at about a 45 degree angle to the baseline when he contacts the ball. By contrast, the modern forehand, with its bigger shoulder turn, more extreme grip, and larger range of motion cranking the hips and shoulders through the stroke, results in the shoulders being more square to the baseline at contact. And because of that difference (I don't recall if you or someone else wrote an article on your site that discusses this difference in the relation of shoulder angle to baseline at contact), the modern forehand results in an earlier "release" of the static front foot in a neutral-stance forehand, relative to Kramer's classic forehand. In fact, Kramer's left foot does release, but just a bit later than Gulbis' neutral-stance forehand in the video.

In my view the windshield-wiper follow-through is also a consequence of the more open relationship of shoulders to baseline at contact point. I also think that the reverse forehand follow-through is a consequence of stopping the rotation of the shoulders prematurely, so the racket releases while the shoulders don't, often as a result of running hard to the right (for right-hander) when hitting...the rightward momentum stops the shoulders from rotating through as they normally do.

My $0.02.
AO

Probably you know

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/biomechanics/John_Yandell/Comparing_Open_Closed_Stances/Comparing_Open_Closed_Stances.html

[johnyandell]

Oliensis, that pretty much hits the nail.

[0403]

As far as a joke about a camera goes Gulbis is coached in Germany,NOT Latvia

I think that he is stiff during the start of the frontswing and therefore doesnt get fully extended and he may have problems with getting the real twirl on the ball if he gets a low slice

[uspta221281867]

the key is the laid back wrist at the top of the backswing or the set as i call it, this needs to take place to really maximize the flick at contact point, gulbis is hitting his forehand 75% because he does not get into this proper set position like big three

[grimmbomb]

And what technical deficiencies do you see?

More views to come when we put him up later in the Stroke Archive.

Just wondering if Ernests Gulbis is still going to show up in the Stroke Archive eventually.

Thanks!!

[johnyandell]

Yes! It would help if he would win more matches when we are trying to film him--like Cincy and IW...we have some footage--a couple more matches at IW would do the trick.

[grimmbomb]

Yes! It would help if he would win more matches when we are trying to film him--like Cincy and IW...we have some footage--a couple more matches at IW would do the trick.

Awesome! And thanks for the quick reply. I have been trying to use a forehand motion with a take back similar to Murray or Gulbis. I feel like I have a better idea of the racquet face angle at contact with this motion. Fortunately there is an insane amount of Murray videos here!

Thanks again.