Timing and the Release

[kmoranon]

great article Don.Excellent stuff... You're the Man

[tennis_chiro]

great article Don.Excellent stuff... You're the Man

Thanks Kal. I was really hoping for some more specific responses. I'd like to know if anyone else is doing drills like this and what their success or difficulty is. I guess this is a start.

[coach]

timing the release

Don,
Great article! Isn't that John Yandell a task master? As a coach myself I use many drills to develop that same feeling of "releasing". One of the drills I use is tying a plastic bag over the racquet head so the player can feel the resistance and also hear where the racquet doing practice swings and then they can also hit the ball with the bag on. Then take the bag off and the release is vastly improved, for a while.
Michael Friedman, contributor to tennisplayer, writing on footwrk

[kmoranon]

Timing and the Release

HI Don: yes well when my brother used to teach, he did the drill where he had the hitter ,hit the balls in the air(on the down) at various different areas as you have them. This was to develop a few different techniques .. one of which was timing and learning how to go through the ball for the directional control... bumping the racket upwards will control the depth and upwards spin,but that was really not the meat of the drill... I also had my students do that rapid fire to develop a quicker take-away by using the shoulder(unit)turn and feet movement.this also gives them a more continuous hand/eye practice trying to see and move to hit the shots.this also gives them some kind arm exercise because after a while the arm will tire but this is where I would point out that the arm should not be tiring if the hitter is using the correct muscles to hit their shots.

P.S. I met Bobby Riggs' son today and his grandson.. we talked a bit about Pancho Segura ,he said that Pancho was his room mate when he was 1 year old... I told Jonny about Bobby Riggs and the 'Battle of the Sexes' but Bobby Riggs was already 55 or so at the time when he played Billie-Jean... and I also had an inside scoop that he tanked that match....

[tennis_chiro]

Plastic bag on the head

Don,
Great article! Isn't that John Yandell a task master? As a coach myself I use many drills to develop that same feeling of "releasing". One of the drills I use is tying a plastic bag over the racquet head so the player can feel the resistance and also hear where the racquet doing practice swings and then they can also hit the ball with the bag on. Then take the bag off and the release is vastly improved, for a while.
Michael Friedman, contributor to tennisplayer, writing on footwrk

Now that's the kind of response I was hoping for. Great idea with the plastic bag on the head, for the release and for the feel of the position of the racket head. And it's very simple. I have to try that. Thanks, Mike. And yes, he is quite a taskmaster! Great to have his help and Ed Weiss's help as well though.

[tennis_chiro]

Asteroids and the correct unit turn

HI Don: yes well when my brother used to teach, he did the drill where he had the hitter ,hit the balls in the air(on the down) at various different areas as you have them. This was to develop a few different techniques .. one of which was timing and learning how to go through the ball for the directional control... bumping the racket upwards will control the depth and upwards spin,but that was really not the meat of the drill... I also had my students do that rapid fire to develop a quicker take-away by using the shoulder(unit)turn and feet movement.this also gives them a more continuous hand/eye practice trying to see and move to hit the shots.this also gives them some kind arm exercise because after a while the arm will tire but this is where I would point out that the arm should not be tiring if the hitter is using the correct muscles to hit their shots.

P.S. I met Bobby Riggs' son today and his grandson.. we talked a bit about Pancho Segura ,he said that Pancho was his room mate when he was 1 year old... I told Jonny about Bobby Riggs and the 'Battle of the Sexes' but Bobby Riggs was already 55 or so at the time when he played Billie-Jean... and I also had an inside scoop that he tanked that match....

Kal,I've found the rapid-fire drill I call Angela's Asteroids is unbelievable in the way it makes players trim the extraneous motion from their backswing and forces them to use the right muscles. The body is basically very smart when it has to be. You'd be amazed if you saw what it does to Daniel's forehand stroke. My problem is to convert that pure stroke to the one he uses when he actually has more time. We are doing better, but it is an uphill battle.
PS I played Larry in a dual match against Pepperdine in 1969 at the old campus before they moved to Malibu. I saw him again in 2000 down in Fort Lauderdale when I was recruiting pros to work for me in the Hamptons in the summer. And sure enough he was at a club with a lot of hustling going on and they were using TenCap very actively! AND there is no way Billie Jean beats the guy that was munching on top open players for money in matches in Southern California, going by the name Bobby Riggs, and about 55 years old. Must have been a different guy!

[bottle]

There has to be a Bad Guy in Every Group

No one has helped my serve more than Don-- especially loosening up my toss options and with just one very clear post-- not a hundred lessons at Griffith Park. The one time I played there I beat a hotshot scriptwriter, and boy was he mad, and it's very far away, so I'm never going back unless my book gets made into a movie.

In this matter of accelerating from different points of a looping forehand, however, I have to challenge Don's central premise. I mean, I do it, and tennis is a game of emergencies, and Peter Burwash was right in teaching simple blocks along with the fuller strokes, and there never could ever be argument with the drills that Don proposes in his article-- they would help anyone any place any time.

As for the philosophy of different release points, however, why can't one simply diminish the need by being more last-minute? Run like hell for the ball with racket on netside, delayed on purpose. Just make sure you have something very good and continuous and succinct to do when you get there. Do that and you never will have to mess with the individual parts of your continuous contraption whatever it is.

Strictly following the Waxahatchee program, I used to teach a big unit turn complete with splayed foot to start any forehand sequence (can still buy it if jammed). Now, though, I much prefer to simultaneously shift my head toward destination with a slighter body pivot and let my feet arrange themselves naturally while I go.

But, an incident from yesterday's match is instructive. I hit several decent forehands but then my opponent hit the back line. I was in good position but didn't recognize the depth soon enough, didn't start the full gyration-- back and forward to the ball-- in time.

Could I have blocked? Possibly. Better though would have been early enough recognition to start anything I wanted slightly before the bounce
on my side.

Personally, that would be one of two options of Federfore as different from each other as night and day. What they have in common is their longarmed
five-count structure.

1. Lift with both hands but then racket hand immediately separates and eases back. Straighten the right arm slightly down in direction of elbow hinge as left arm straightens too as if to penetrate the right fence. Take time (two counts) swiveling upper body around from the gut, which presupposes starch in the legs. Let everything go (release)-- leg drive, arm changing direction, still swinging from gut, and wrist-forearm Mondo (countering) right on the ball to try and get the extra flipper effect in a pinball machine.

2. Lift with both hands while sinking low on knees, particularly the left one
(1) . Straighten left arm toward right fence but keep hitting arm bent and high as upper body again winds to its max (2). Reverse upper body hard while driving with outside leg. It's the arm that provides essential slowness here as it passively extends from elbow into Mondoing hand (3-4) and then everything slings, with even the human head slamming left a bit (5).

This is the Roger who's on his game, the guy who's a bounce and a crunch
while staring back at the ball. Call me a Romantic. I think anyone can do it.

Orchestrating both shots in the same match is a neuron-jangling experience unless one persists. You may never feel equal ease at winding shoulders back at different times in rather similar stroke productions-- unless you feel it's worth doing.

Using first forehand, one could probably release from different spots. With the second, though-- never. Any adjustment has to come to the time of first lifting the racket back. Otherwise, the contraption won't work.

[bottle]

Combination of Two Pre-existing Elements

A couple of possible design flaws in what I said: In the second forehand enumerated just above, you can do a similar timing trick to the initiation move described in forehand one, but only if you worship at the altar of late-minuteness.

In forehand one, after you have lean-pivoted in the direction you want to go and run there with racket pointed toward net, you decide to begin your
scrape of the ball sometime around the bounce (during, before, or after).
It's a fast late-instant decision less apt to result in unforced error than if you take racket tip back by the time the approaching ball crosses the net, as Vic Braden used to preach. You have a much better idea of oncoming height, spin and pace through waiting, studying, and not getting over-excited and committing too soon.

So, you're finally ready to swing. You lift racket back with both hands but then let them separate-- all as a single count. In forehand two you can lift racket back with both hands and use upper body wind to the max either straightening hit arm or not as left hand drives toward right fence-- all this, again, as part of a single count.

You finally have the chance to hit a great forehand with a shoulders shoulders rhythm. Then, keeping arm bent at top will result in one type of topspin--fluffy and sometimes useful. Getting the arm straighter at top will lead to a beefier shot. In either case a significant moment in mediocre forehands is gone. That's the moment when you've turned your shoulders and stopped them as the racket continues back. Never stop them, just change their direction.

Time it, make it smooth. The racket lifts and goes back as the legs coil. The shoulders reverse direction as the legs uncoil. The arm slowly unfurls down and hand mondoes; or, swings down solid with body and hand mondoes; or,
does a little of both and hand mondoes-- followed immediately by WHIP.

This seemed good. But then I had to ask: Along with passive arm straightening option and arm-swing-slightly-down-as-a-unit-with-body option along with hybrid options, is there an entirely different option where arm is straight but swings independently (and slowly) before it whips?

Yes (as seen in clips of Federer once in a while).

Isn't it interesting that Federer attributes numerous losses in the juniors to fooling around with the really important stuff like this?

[tennis_chiro]

could you rephrase the question

A couple of possible design flaws in what I said: In the second forehand enumerated just above, you can do a similar timing trick to the initiation move described in forehand one, but only if you worship at the altar of late-minuteness.

In forehand one, after you have lean-pivoted in the direction you want to go and run there with racket pointed toward net, you decide to begin your
scrape of the ball sometime around the bounce (during, before, or after).
It's a fast late-instant decision less apt to result in unforced error than if you take racket tip back by the time the approaching ball crosses the net, as Vic Braden used to preach. You have a much better idea of oncoming height, spin and pace through waiting, studying, and not getting over-excited and committing too soon.

So, you're finally ready to swing. You lift racket back with both hands but then let them separate-- all as a single count. In forehand two you can lift racket back with both hands and use upper body wind to the max either straightening hit arm or not as left hand drives toward right fence-- all this, again, as part of a single count.

You finally have the chance to hit a great forehand with a shoulders shoulders rhythm. Then, keeping arm bent at top will result in one type of topspin--fluffy and sometimes useful. Getting the arm straighter at top will lead to a beefier shot. In either case a significant moment in mediocre forehands is gone. That's the moment when you've turned your shoulders and stopped them as the racket continues back. Never stop them, just change their direction.

Time it, make it smooth. The racket lifts and goes back as the legs coil. The shoulders reverse direction as the legs uncoil. The arm slowly unfurls down and hand mondoes; or, swings down solid with body and hand mondoes; or,
does a little of both and hand mondoes-- followed immediately by WHIP.

This seemed good. But then I had to ask: Along with passive arm straightening option and arm-swing-slightly-down-as-a-unit-with-body option along with hybrid options, is there an entirely different option where arm is straight but swings independently (and slowly) before it whips?

Yes (as seen in clips of Federer once in a while).

Isn't it interesting that Federer attributes numerous losses in the juniors to fooling around with the really important stuff like this?

Bottle, I tried to follow your posts and I'm afraid I'm not familiar with all of your terms and references, so I didn't quite follow it completely. The one thing I got out of it was that you got caught by a deep ball. That's the point! When a ball comes in deep, the racket has to prepare earlier and independently of the bounce. In addition, the height of your preparation has to be different relative to the point where you are going to have to hit the ball. You are right: getting the racket back as early as possible all the way to the back fence is not conducive to a good shot.
As far as the winding and winding and conituous vs two-step swing, the unit turn and then release (2 step) is really a learning phase which most people never progress beyond. Most of the pros do of course, and their swings look more or less continuous, with very few exceptions, at least on the forehand. Two-handed backhands tend to demonstrate a more distinct break between backswing and release when the player has a straight back and down two-hander as opposed to something that looks more like the C shaped swing.
I have no idea if that addresses the points you were trying to raise in your posts, but if you rephrase the question, I will try to answer it.
don brosseau

[bottle]

Thank you very much for your response.

No, I agree, and I'll try to be very simple in my next post. I don't have a further question for you right now-- but the day after tomorrow I will.

I do think for purposes of clarity, there are two different discussions going on here, starting with your article...strokes with a timing adjustment within them vs. strokes with the timing adjustment before them.

[tennis_chiro]

Different strokes for different folks

No, I agree, and I'll try to be very simple in my next post. I don't have a further question for you right now-- but the day after tomorrow I will.

I do think for purposes of clarity, there are two different discussions going on here, starting with your article...strokes with a timing adjustment within them vs. strokes with the timing adjustment before them.

Bottle,
Just a couple of things to keep in mind.

1. We try to develop an ideal or "best" stroke possible as coaches and teachers. There is no such thing. But we try. And when a player has played for 5 or more years with a particular stroke, say forehand, that is "their forehand" and no amount of coaching is going to eliminate the characteristics of that stroke that are uniquely that individual's. However, we can try to get that stroke to change a little and incorporate some of the elements we "think" are essential to effective stroke production. This idea creates one wholly separate train of thought and discussion.

2. As far as preparing changing the release early or late, the early preparation is somewhat left brained and deliberate. The late change in the release and the speed of the swing should be right brained and automatic. You have to trust your body to figure out how to time the shot. You drop the racket into the gravity drop and you add speed as you feel necessary. Sometimes you swing a little faster to create a faster shot; sometimes you drop the ball crosscourt in a short angle with less speed. But each shot should start with a relaxed drop of the racket where you get some help from the gravity drop. (Obviously this doesn't work so well on high balls.) But when you try to muscle the ball from the very beginning of the stroke, the results are rarely attractive or effective.

looking forward to how your next question and how I can worm my way through my next clarification
don

[bottle]

Huge Federfores

COMING YOUR WAY!

PAINT BY THE NUMBERS!

SHICK-SHICK, THE OLD
INJECTOR RAZOR.

AMERICAN COMMERCE
HERE AGAIN.

SHOULDERS-SHOULDERS:
THE RHYTHM OF THIS
WONDERFUL SHOT

COMBINED WITH LEGS-LEGS.

WOULD YOU LIKE ME
TO WRAP IT OR NOT?

TWO COUNTS TO LIFT AND
GLIDE YOUR TWO ARMS OUT.

TWO COUNTS TO SWIVEL
THE OTHER WAY.

SOLID, ONE. MONDO, TWO.

WHAT'S LEFT?

COUNT FIVE!!!!! TO HIT THE BALL.

AND JEFFREY COUNTS

for pointing out
that Roger
is doing
Tai Chi.


Term, "Mondo," picked up from some janitor in an abandoned factory:
Turning the wrist back and winding the racket down from the forearm.
Eric Matuszewski explained to me that these two actions should be simultaneous-- advice which helped me a ton in my little quest. Some
people, like Eric apparently, do it while they're hitting the ball. Others, like Roger, do it just before they hit the ball.

Term, "Federfore," referring to an imitation Roger Federer forehand. If one's going to do it, should he do it slavishly? I don't think so. Instead, like the Fosbury flop in high-jumping, one should cheerfully accept the historical advance and then riff on it like a jazzman. One might hit a note that's really good.

Term, "shick-shick": one put the injector in the razor and then pushed sort of like a retractable plastic knife. The old blade would fly out the side, and
the new one would be in perfect place, and the spring in the injector would
retract-- if I'm remembering things right. It made a nice noise. Anyway,
I'm trying to relate to the still new rhythm for me of shoulders and legs
coiling together and then releasing together (four counts as I felt it today).

Term, "paint by the numbers." Suggests the disdain of the true painter for
people who do things by formula. Maybe "dance by the numbers"
would be better. Counts or beats used or described by a dance instructor
are perfectly respectable even for the most virtuosic dancers.

Term, "American commerce": If the Federfore is indeed "a stroke for the masses," as John Yandell suggested in Tennis Magazine, then there's a whole new market for American teaching pros who themselves can first learn it. John and I are on the same page about "stroke for the masses", though I'm sure he's cringeing right now at my use of the word "market" (come to think of it, why did I do it?) and certainly wouldn't ever use the term "Federfore." Where we most substantially differ, though, is that he doesn't believe most tour pros since they don't have Roger's exquisite timing can do the thing even if they want to, thanks to the greater pace and spin on the circuit. Obviously, he knows more about the circuit than I, but I think that anybody can time this stroke against anything, including Roger against Rafa if they will only wait long enough before they take the racket back.

[bottle]

This is about education.

"Huge Federfores" was surely not a reply. I was still writing it while you (Don) wrote yours. I very much appreciate your wisdom about when somebody's forehand becomes basically unchangeable. That rings true to my limited but nevertheless very real tennis teaching experience.

On the other hand, since I've only been victimizing myself lately, I'm taken
with stuff I've read about learning cells or "oligos" and decided I have
five per cent of a five-year-old's, but that's something to work with
if I get up at dawn when they're fresh! And take my nice high-rise Gamma
basket (a gift from a passing motorist) to the court and hit all manner of
shots, everything I can think of, simply dropping balls without a partner, even on a day when I have a match.

I was struck by the sadness and seediness of the aging Bill Tilden in the biography of him written by Frank Deford. There he was, never changing his sweaty tennis clothes from day to day, trying to add an extra hitting step to his regular hitting step because he had a theory! But he couldn't. As a young man every theory turned into wonderful, positive reality.
As an old man, he was stuck with what he'd done his whole life-- though it was a great history in his case.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if as a teacher you could get every student to be a life-long learner, with that the emphasis rather than strokes and all the rest? I think admiration must be key. I got to partner, and win, with Katharine Hepburn one time. She must have been in her seventies. We beat her brother and my brother, both over 4.0 players . Looking back on it
and trying to see past the big deal of it all ("a celebrity-- yikes!"), was the lady's seriousness about the sport. She told a reporter one time if she had her choice she would come back as a tour tennis player. And guess who her best teacher was? Bill Tilden. His influence was written all over her strokes.

Another time I was playing with Senator Paul Laxalt, also in his seventies, on a mountaintop in Virginia and he was kicking my butt as usual. He then revealed to me that Helen Wills Moody taught him his impossible-to-read
forehand. She was divorcing Moody in Reno. Paul was the Nevada 15's
champion.

Nowadays we're not so dependent on similar personal encounter (though it surely wouldn't hurt). If I want to try and hit a forehand like Roger Federer I can without invoking social contacts of my ancestors in Zurich. There's a wealth of material to help me. And I'm telling you, I really started belting the ball this morning (I'm 68) in a way I don't think I ever have before. And I KNOW it's going to work in my next match with Frank on Monday.

[bottle]

Bounce-- Crunch

To say that Roger bounces on his outside foot and then crushes the ball may be too complicated.

Same thing if we say it's turn, turn and then hit.

Or legs, legs-- hit.

Bounce-crunch.

So simple.

Bounce-crunch.

Bounce-crunch.

And if it's that simple, why can't anyone do it?

Whoops, my evil powers of incantation told me that there's an invisible reader out there, someone who just thought the words, "Rafa beats Roger and I'm glad."

But from whom did Rafa take his forehand?

[bottle]

Leg-Leg

One goes down, the other up.