Timing Article

[dipperhitter]

Interesting article about the racquet head and I have a question. How did you develop the concept of the "pocket"?

Is that what you feel and is it separate from the feeling of the racquet head? Or is that sort of the same thing?

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

[tennis_chiro]

about the "pocket" in timing

Ed used the phrase "pocket". It's another way of saying the sweetspot, but the sweetspot for your groundies is a little different from your serve because the serve puts such a premium on the speed of the racket head and the speed is a little greater another inch or two further out. You do have to feel that pocket and that is why I put the lead wire evenly distributed around the racket head for the weighted racket, thus maintaining some sense of the "pocket" even in a weighted racket. We'll see if John agrees about the different sweet spot for serves and groundstrokes.
don brosseau

[dipperhitter]

Do you think many players can tell the difference there? I mean between the different spots?

[johnyandell]

I've heard that argued and it may very well be true. I can't say I've ever been able to feel or control that myself which in no way reflects on it's possible veracity...

It would be an interesting study with even faster high speed filming with more frames on the racket. I know the top players can be all over the racket face-but whether you'd detect patterns in many events I don't know. Someone could take it on with the high speed DVDs now if they have enough time on their hands...

[CraigC]

A bit more on this topic

I am certain they can tell the difference as to whether they hit the ball in the center "pocket" or not. One of my favorite drills to improve "precision" is to have the player intentionally hit different parts of the stringbed and the racket. For example, I will ask the player to hit the top of the frame, the side of the frame, the bottom part of the stringbed, the lower middle of the stringbed etc.... This not only and requires improves the eye-hand coordination of the athlete, but it improves feel and positioning on the ball. Together, the player becomes more aware of the "clean" shot. Now, in competition, I have no idea if the player is aware of the different parts of the racket touching the ball because there are so many other things going on. Still, I find it useful instruction.
FYI, another fun one is to take out all of the strings except for the 4 mains and 4 crosses in the center. Although I hard shot will break the strings, an easy smooth stroke will force the player to become more precise with both timing and accuracy at contact.
-CC

[tennis_chiro]

like CraigC drills

I love Craig C's drills to feel the different parts of the racket head. Players can definitely feel the difference.

When I was one of the first players to start using the larger headed Prince in 1977, no one could hit a big serve. The "sweet spot" on the original prince was very large (comparatively), but it was also very low on the face and reduced the length of the lever arm on the serve and the speed of the racket head at the contact point (see Technical Tennis by Cross & Lindsay). It took me about a month, but I suddenly found myself hitting my first serve up well above the sweet spot and concurrently found the speed on my first serve. It was a dramatic difference. You still had to hit the groundstrokes in the sweetspot, but not the serve.

I also have junior players who have too much wrist in their forehands and one of the "adaptations" (just my guess) has been to hit a lot of these "golf swings" with the edge of the racket, because that holds the ball a little longer and they are not holding it long enough by the nature of their strokesd!

Just some more food for thought.
don

[uspta146749877]

serve

I love Craig C's drills to feel the different parts of the racket head. Players can definitely feel the difference.

When I was one of the first players to start using the larger headed Prince in 1977, no one could hit a big serve. The "sweet spot" on the original prince was very large (comparatively), but it was also very low on the face and reduced the length of the lever arm on the serve and the speed of the racket head at the contact point (see Technical Tennis by Cross & Lindsay). It took me about a month, but I suddenly found myself hitting my first serve up well above the sweet spot and concurrently found the speed on my first serve. It was a dramatic difference. You still had to hit the groundstrokes in the sweetspot, but not the serve.

I also have junior players who have too much wrist in their forehands and one of the "adaptations" (just my guess) has been to hit a lot of these "golf swings" with the edge of the racket, because that holds the ball a little longer and they are not holding it long enough by the nature of their strokesd!

Just some more food for thought.
don

Hi,
there is a school of thinking saying that hitting a ball CLOSER to a throat
provides a faster serve.
Does it contradict or compliment what you are saying?
Another way of phrasing this question:
Say I have two rackets A and B.
The racket B has a sweetspot located closer to a throat.
Is racket B better for my serve?
My understanding of what you wrote above is that your answer is NO.
Do we have the same answer for newest Prince rackets-the Speedport Series?
Does an answer depend on other parameters of a racket?
julian uspta 27873

[tennis_chiro]

Hi,
there is a school of thinking saying that hitting a ball CLOSER to a throat
provides a faster serve.
Does it contradict or compliment what you are saying?
Another way of phrasing this question:
Say I have two rackets A and B.
The racket B has a sweetspot located closer to a throat.
Is racket B better for my serve?
My understanding of what you wrote above is that your answer is NO.
Do we have the same answer for newest Prince rackets-the Speedport Series?
Does an answer depend on other parameters of a racket?
julian uspta 27873

Your anticipation of my answer is correct, but if you are serious about understanding what is going on with these technical points, you just have to read Cross and Lindsay's book, Technical Tennis. I read it just in the last year and I just keep rereading it when I get a chance. It will explode a lot of "myths". I'm not familiar with the "Speedpoint" series. Mostly, I think we make too much out of rackets. It usually took me 3 months to really get used to a racket, and I have seen students who regularly change more often than that. I would find a racket I liked and then get a half dozen of the frames (I'm not on the tour!) and use them for a couple of years at least.

[uspta146749877]

Prince rackets

Your anticipation of my answer is correct, but if you are serious about understanding what is going on with these technical points, you just have to read Cross and Lindsay's book, Technical Tennis. I read it just in the last year and I just keep rereading it when I get a chance. It will explode a lot of "myths". I'm not familiar with the "Speedpoint" series. Mostly, I think we make too much out of rackets. It usually took me 3 months to really get used to a racket, and I have seen students who regularly change more often than that. I would find a racket I liked and then get a half dozen of the frames (I'm not on the tour!) and use them for a couple of years at least.

Hi,
a bit disappointing response
but let me be a pest
A link for a Speedport racket example

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/SP03PW/SP03PWReview.html

[tennis_chiro]

Speedport??

OK, as usual, when I get done reading these comparisons, I don't feel like I have really improved my ability to make a choice. You have to find the racket that feels better to you. The ball will go faster from a sweetspot further out on the face of the racket or even from a non-sweetspot if the difference is that great (3 to 4 inches). It's simply matter of math and physics. You reallly should read Technical Tennis.

Bottom line. Try out the racket and be sure it feels good to you. If it is a radical change in weight or balance from your old racket, expect a long time to adjust. You also have to recognize that the racket choice depends as much on the speed of your swing and what kind of ball you hit and what string you use at what tension and what level of player you are.

don

[johnyandell]

I'll have to chime in to say people look for answers in rackets when they would most often be much better served by working on their strokes.

When you compare the modern rackets to what most people of my generation (you too Don) learned with you realize that the technology is incredible and tweaking the sweet spot one inch in some direction is not the real answer to better tennis.

[uspta146749877]

Vic Braden

Your anticipation of my answer is correct, but if you are serious about understanding what is going on with these technical points, you just have to read Cross and Lindsay's book, Technical Tennis. I read it just in the last year and I just keep rereading it when I get a chance. It will explode a lot of "myths". I'm not familiar with the "Speedpoint" series. Mostly, I think we make too much out of rackets. It usually took me 3 months to really get used to a racket, and I have seen students who regularly change more often than that. I would find a racket I liked and then get a half dozen of the frames (I'm not on the tour!) and use them for a couple of years at least.

Just to close a my completely unsuccesful post:
the school of thinking I mentioned couple post above has been promoted by Vic Braden quoting Howard Brody.
Overall a punt at MY END.

[tennis_chiro]

Braden, Brody, Sweetspot and speed of the serve

I finally got to see Vic's comment about the speed of the serve and Brody's work that the ball goes faster if the ball is contacted closer to the throat. this comes back to my comment about the early use of the Prince rackets. I wonder if Brody's work is dated back to when the rackets had lower sweetspots. I think today's rackets are different and have been designed so that the COR (I believe coefficient of restitution) for the end of the racket is much higher as a percentage of the COR in the true "sweetspot" so that you don't lose so much of a multiplication factor and get the benefit of the additional racket head speed at a greater distance from the other end of the lever arm. I.E. the tip of the racket is traveling faster through the air than the throat. I am the wrong person to speak to this, but I really believe the engineers have moved that sweetspot further out on the racketface with the new materials and designs. That is one reason balls go faster than they used to.

I repeat, I am not the right person to answer that specific question. But I do believe a player will feel the spot that gives him/her the best combination of consistency, accuracy, and power. My point is that once he finds that spot, he has to always be aware of playing with that spot.

[dipperhitter]

Regarding the racket and the sweet spot I was wondering if you think I should use the pause after the turn? Maybe that would help me find that point in the strings that you are talking about?

[tennis_chiro]

Pause after the turn

I would think you would be better off. When is that pause? Maybe you want to think of it as the point where you get the opposite arm straightened out, then go. As you increase your proficiency, the pause will disappear or be disguised, but it is always still there in function. Note that the pause does not mean "racket back". When you complete the turn and make that pause, you should have the racket head in a plane that includes the movement of the racket to the ball, and the contact point and the target. I hope that is not too complicated. Once you get well past the contact point, the racket "sweet spot" and the head can move out of that plane and make the windshield wiper move or whatever form you want your stroke to take. Hope that helps
don