Interactive Forum: May 2008 Pete Sampras Wide Slice

[EricMatuszewski]

In last month's "Secrets of the Wide Slice Serve" Dennis Ralston shared a tip given to him by Pancho Gonzales which turned his Wide Slice into his favorite serve.

Can you see Sampras use Pancho's technique in this high speed footage?

I think these may be my favorite clips on the site. The greatest shot of all time, close up and in slow motion and with unbelievable resolution.

You can even see when Pete's eyes move.

How many frames after contact does Pete start to turn his head toward his opponent?

Based on this, what coaching recommendations would you make to a player about watching the ball on a serve.

Also, how "closed" is Sampras to the line of his shot?

How much does his chest face or not face his target at contact?

Can anyone copy this? Or does flexibility limit a persons ability to serve like Pete?


Pete Sampras Wide Slice Front





Pete Sampras Wide Slice Rear

[EricMatuszewski]

QuickTime Versions

Pete Sampras Wide Slice Front




Pete Sampras Wide Slice Rear

[airforce1]

Pretty great Vids!

Notice how his shoulders rotate around the axis and how still the head is, <front view>
as he drives the elbow extension up towards the CP. Almost machine like in it's precision.

[jmhtennis]

This shot is my vote for the greatest shot in the history of tennis. I equate it Tiger Wood's fade with his driver. Powerful, simple, efficient, accurate, and beautiful. The extension is unreal. The leg drive is huge. Kids, don't try this at home.
Jeff

[gsheiner]

I think the key to the Sampras slice is the fact that he swings left to right even on his slice.

If you study video of his serve in the archive, you'll see that his swing direction in the deuce court is towards the middle of the ad service box. He swings left to right on all his serves which is probably why he has a such a big spin component.

But, in addition, I think that this swing direction adds to the disguise of the shot. He looks at though he has to go down the middle and then boom the serve is slicing to your right --and, too late, sorry pal -another Sampras ace.

At the club level, people rotate far too early in their service motion and end up hitting slice by almost hitting directly toward the target. No disguise obviously.

Someone once did an analysis of the right shoulder angle at contact on the serve.

Roddick's right shoulder was essentially at 0 degrees to the baseline at contact --meaning that he had opened up completely at contact.

Sampras, on the other hand still had a 45 degree angle to the baseline.

I think that disguise is the hidden secret of the Sampras serve and it's based on this left to right swing plane and the holding back of the right shoulder.

That's why I think it's so critical not to look where the ball goes right away. If you pull your head to the left, you'll tend to rotate too early.

Just my 2 cents.

[stickman]

How much does his chest face or not face his target at contact?

Can anyone copy this? Or does flexibility limit a persons ability to serve like Pete?

What part is hard to copy?

And were's the extreme flexibility your talking about?

I dont see anything that looks difficult? Maby i dont understand?

[EricMatuszewski]

Draw an imaginary line from shoulder to shoulder, you can call that the "shoulder line".

On Pete, the "shoulder line" is more parallel with the line of the outgoing ball at contact than with many elite servers. You could call this being more "closed". The SL is also more vertical at contact than say Roddick.

He also manages to get to contact rather upright as opposed to having his whole body leaned more to the left when viewing him from the rear view.

The motion is also more of a "shoulder over shoulder" or "cartwheeling" motion more in a vertical plane rather than a shoulder around shoulder motion or one in a more horizontal plane. Bruce Elliot discusses this in his article "The power serve" which you can find on this site.

Getting thru this motion at any speed, much less at the speeds Pete does it at, requires a great deal of trunk, hip and shoulder strength and flexibility.

Pete demonstrates a degree of spinal and hip hyperextension. His shoulder undergoes a large degree of external rotation. He appears to ER further than Federer (Clip 0041517-0001.mov) by what appears to be more than 20 deg.

[jmhtennis]

How much does his chest face or not face his target at contact?

Can anyone copy this? Or does flexibility limit a persons ability to serve like Pete?

What part is hard to copy?

And were's the extreme flexibility your talking about?

I dont see anything that looks difficult? Maby i dont understand?

I guess that's part of the magic of his serve. Pete makes it look easy...
I cannot think of any other player (I think Boris Becker is closer than most) that rotates the trunk of their body as much as Samprass. Roddick does not come close as far as body rotation. Roddick's first serve is also much flatter than Pete's. So, Roddick serves higher MPH, but there is less movement of the ball, less juice. It is the difference between a fastball and a hard slider, in baseball terms. Any hitter would rather get a look at a fastball.
Jeff

[stickman]

Damn... that was a good explanation! I'd say something else but ... i cant find anything! lol

[EricMatuszewski]

Damn... that was a good explanation! I'd say something else but ... i cant find anything! lol

stickman,

did all of the terminology make sense?

[johnyandell]

By the way, can anyone identify the two gentlemen sitting in the box behind Pete?

[oliensis]

Identifying the Gentlemen

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the guy frame left is the right honorable Mayor Dinkins. I'll guess that the other guy is Ahmad Rashad, but I'm probably not right not right on that one.

[johnyandell]

We have a winner on both counts.

[stickman]

Pete demonstrates a degree of spinal and hip hyperextension. His shoulder undergoes a large degree of external rotation. He appears to ER further than Federer (Clip 0041517-0001.mov) by what appears to be more than 20 deg.


"hyperextension"?

ER further than Federer ?

Not quite sure what exactly is being said here?

Sounds good, i just dont understand?

[EricMatuszewski]

Hyperextension = Extension beyond the normal range.

Common examples of spinal and hip hyperextension are the "cobra" and "upward facing dog" yoga poses. Just put them in Google and you'll get images.

because hip hyperextension and spine hyperextension usually accompany each other much like arm abduction at the shoulder joint and protraction of the scapula it's usually difficult to tell how much of the range of motion you see in a pose is related to each individual motion.

ER is just an abbreviation for External rotation. Rotation of the Arm at the shoulder joint, away from the midline of the body.

Go to the High speed archive and find a slow motion of Federer serving in front view and look at how far his arm externally rotates compared to Sampras. It looks to me to be around 20 degrees more for Sampras.