Simplifying the basic pro serve for me and other serious

[ochi]

Lately, I've been watching in slo-mo, over and over and over, Nadal's unexeptional-looking but very effective serve, and realize that it's still the serve of most oif the pros that I see on my corny Tennis Channel. Except that he doesn't propel off the court as much as Fed and many others. Almost none of my fellow hackers propel off the court at all, and never did. I did, before my late midlife miniscus snips, and know what it's like, and miss it. So, how to make up for it, on our highly challenged local level?

I began by copying Nadal's forward lean and his brief bouncing, and his open-to-close takeback, et cetera, plus John Yandell's let-toss-drop-in-front-of-the nose advice. And whenever I do it all as planned, I served better than ever. But how can I improve my restricted shoulders turn? That seems key. I've tried calesthenics that seem related to serving, and expect that to help, but how can I best limber up my shoulder turn, John? You are getting up there. What do physios tell you, or did you decide on a regime a long time ago, one that still works?

Stickman, what do you think?

[johnyandell]

I'd try tennis specific stretching, light strength training, (see Roetert exercises), and especially deep tissue massage.

[airforce1]

are you sure you are turning right? I hate to ask that, as it seems pretty basic, but I'm about as stiff as they come, but shoulder turn seems pretty easy to get.

Just thinking that maybe you need to start the turn lower (all the way to foot placement) and increase it up to the shoulders. This meaning that the hips should be partially turned to facilitate the turn of the shoulders you are looking for.

[ochi]

Airforce1, maybe I'm turning correctly, maybe not. I cannot believe that I am doing it optimally. All I know is, sometimes it feels fluid, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes my chest and back feel tight; sometimes they don't. I want to feel fluidity and smooth synchronization with my upward takeback. And, I want to find out how much shoulder turn is best for me. Is a lot better, or does that make for more glitch possibilities? I remember two instructors watching another, who was serving big and beautifully. One said to the other, "What I wouldn't give for his shoulder turn!" That from a guy who played every day.

I also recall hitting with a Swarthmore number one (he was dating our daughter), and how extremely, and easily, he coiled and uncoiled. It was as if he were a spring-driven human corkscrew. He semed to explode up and up. I can still see it in my mind's eye, many years later. His fast topspin serves would loop over the net, plunge, bounce and take off over my head. Returning was hitting overheads most of the time. How much of his serve resulted from leg-thrust, how much from shoulder turn? Equal parts, perhaps.

So, I am going to keep working on becoming more limber, and go from there. Perhaps I'll ask a personal trainer for advice on how to go about it. In the meantime, I'll work up a sweat, loosen up my lumbar, and swivel through service motions, expecting that it will do me good; and I will serve 50-100 balls until I see and feel a difference.

[bottle]

~

This is great stuff. I like it so much. And I too went the Nadal route, only with no positive result.

As one gets really senior-- past 60, say-- are you going to serve cannonballs?
I knew one such person, in Winchester, Virginia. It was a great serve but
he didn't have a SECOND serve. I wouldn't want him as a doubles partner.

I admire the continued impulse toward innovation in some elder players.
But to me the big clue in this website was the Dennis Ralston article on
slice. It wasn't just stillness of head but the basic conviction, coming all
the way from Tilden, that the arm whips around the body. The body can
cool it a bit in other words.

The other big distinction in all serving that I see you just identified. That
would be early leg thrust vs. a more blended use of the legs that happens
later and perhaps ensures that one's head isn't coming down during contact.
I've served both ways, serially, not at the same time and maybe 50 percent
of each. But I started a lot later than you, Ochi, I suspect, except when
my girlfriend at seventeen was steadier than Chris Evert and I hadn't yet specialized in another sport (rowing). Unfortunately, she ended up spending her life in a mental institution beating all other tennis-playing patients and staffers both female and male-- a tragic legend, actually.

It's easy to consider the later use of legs as something junior, but Vic
Braden always seemed to advocate it. If you remember, he had Don Drysdale
serving over 120 m.p.h. in a couple of minutes. A good baseball pitcher doesn't blast off as if at Cape Canaveral yet still does all right.

[ochi]

Yo, Bottle, I don't care about serving rockets. Nadal is not one of the bigger pro servers. I just like his boiled-down simplicity. Whenever I nail a serve, I love it, but I'm caring much more about fairly fast placements, same speed first and second serves, especially in doubles. I'm continually working on better slice/topspin, into both sides of both boxes. Almost no one I know of is into this. Go figure. The point of my post is my belief that it helps a lot to become more supple in the chest and back and shoulder. Nadal's set-up works, bit you have made me wonder about the '50s long right toe drag used by some Aussies -- which irritated the men who maintained grass courts. And there's the similar Croatian style, from Goran to Ljubicic to Ancic to Karlovic, which, I think, deserves an article with mini-vids. Or have I missed something else in the vast Tennisplayer archive? I expect that JY will set me straight on that. No way am I going to attempt -- again -- to emulate the fantastic Sampras technique, John. I would much rather know how Fabrice Santoro and a couple other Frenchies do it. I will tape them during Roland Garros. In the meantime, I will keep loosening up and grooving what I do.

Steer clear of those institutions, Bottle! Don't let anyone sign you in, even if there is lots of tennis time, TennisChannel, and an old girlfriend. You're not already corresponding from such a place, are you? If so, you sound quite happy. Good on you.

[bottle]

Only 208 hits on this thread?

What, are people nuts?