Interactive Forum: April 2008 Chris Evert Forehand

[EricMatuszewski]

This is the forehand of the American tennis's greatest clay court player.

That's right, Chris Evert won 10 of her 18 grand slam titles on clay.

(three of her U.S. Open wins were on clay before they switched to hard court).

Last month we discussed the "Spanish Forehand". Is this the "American Forehand"?

Should coaches for female players be encouraging this type of swing or something else?

Also, the most revered part of Evert's game was her return of serve.

Is there something about her mechanics that would increase chances of making clean contact on the return?


Chris Evert Forehand 1




Chris Evert Forehand 2

[EricMatuszewski]

QuickTime Versions

Chris Evert Forehand 1




Chris Evert Forehand 2

[lukman41985]

The amount/component of topspin on those forehands would be revealing--around 1,000 RPM's, if that, with almost some side/backspin. Would not work on the professional tour today, but I suppose a beginner could look at those clips to learn about the hitting arm structure...

[landivas]

"American Forehand"

I thought the american's forehand started with Jimmy Arias.

[uspta146749877]

Arias and the latest issue of tennis

I thought the american's forehand started with Jimmy Arias.

As a matter of fact see the latest issue of Tennis with the article about Arias

[gsheiner]

A couple of obvious differences:

Left arm points to the ball as opposed to across the body.

No windshield wiper action on the swing.

Could a pro keep the ball in play with today's rackets and strings with this technique?

[johnyandell]

An excellent question.

What I think is interesting is the underlying fundamental structures of the hitting arm shape and especially the extension on the forward swing.

They are impecable.

These two components are also constant in the modern pro game. Another question would be are some of these elements more applicable for most players than the more extreme swing patterns of players like Roddick or Nadal.

The substructure here I think can actually lead naturally to some of the more advanced elements we see--much stronger turn, hand and arm rotation, more stance variations, etc.

It going too far to trace a direct line from her to Federer, but not too far to say one could evolve seemlessly into the other.

[jeffreycounts]

A couple of obvious differences:

Left arm points to the ball as opposed to across the body.

No windshield wiper action on the swing.

Could a pro keep the ball in play with today's rackets and strings with this technique?

Those are the big differences I see as well. The double bend structure is there, which is interesting. But the way the tip of her racket moves out towards the net is so different. You can get so much more power by keeping the tip of the racket back and driving through the ball as you lift and rotate the hitting structure. I think that by moving the tip of the racket towards the net through the hit, you are disconnecting your hand and shoulder from the drive of the ball. The direct side angle really shows how the tip of the racket doesn't stay back through the hit. She could probably hit the ball twice as hard if she kept the wrist back and used the wiper motion to power through and up the ball.

To be honest, I see MORE wrist action in her forehand than in today's game. Today the wrist stays back through the hit so the entire hitting structure can power through and up the ball. Today's forehand is more body based - torso rotation, hand and shoulder rotation, while her forehand is more arm based and the wrist moving the racket towards the net disconnects the body from the ball.
Great clips! Fascinating.

[lukman41985]

Check these out...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/jackkramer/jackkramer_sa.html?JKFHSide1.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_woman/ana_ivanovic/forehand/ai_fh_center/ai_fh_center.html?AIFHCenterOpenStanceSide7_Tennisplayer440.mov

Kramer from one era. Evert another. Ivanovic the current. The similarities are interesting.

[lukman41985]

One more point: The closest thing to this kind of swing pattern on the current men's tour belongs to...

Lleyton Hewitt?

I think so. Although Jeff may disagree. See here: http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterSide1.mov

Sure, this could just be a one off example. Although I cannot find an article that I can cite, I have heard the Roche is working with Hewitt to put more spin on his forehand. The swing pattern seen in these Evert clips, and the clips of Kramer, Ivanovic, and Hewitt I've posted is not one that produces an extreme amount of topspin. If Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, and Roddick produce balls off the forehand with a spin rotating from 6 to 12 these clips show a swing pattern that I would say, produces a spin rotating from 4 to 10, or even more sideways. Does that make sense? I'm certain that the more prevalent, that is to say modern men's tour swing pattern, and the one that Jeff has analyzed nicely, is better suited at generating CONSISTENT depth, which, if you ask me, is probably the most important thing at any level. I think it's what's made Djokovic so tough.

And that reminds me. Although John's data shows that Nadal's reverse and standard finishes produce a similar amount of spin, I would bet a dollar that Nadal's reverse finish produces a different ball than his standard finish in 2 ways:

1.) The reverse finish produces a ball with a more vertical (6 to 12) topspin component.

2.) The reverse finish produces a higher trajectory ball.

[gsheiner]

T

To be honest, I see MORE wrist action in her forehand than in today's game. Today the wrist stays back through the hit so the entire hitting structure can power through and up the ball. Today's forehand is more body based - torso rotation, hand and shoulder rotation, while her forehand is more arm based and the wrist moving the racket towards the net disconnects the body from the ball.
Great clips! Fascinating.

I'm not sure I agree about the wrist action in the Evert forehands.

On reviewing the Spanish forehand, I can clearly see a big wrist ulnar deviation movement on the approach to the ball. You definitely don't see this action to that extent in the Evert forehand.

I think both forehands maintain hitting structure through the ball. I don't see the wristiness of the Evert forehand that you describe.

It almost seems counterintuitive to me that the Evert forehand would be more wristy. To me, wristiness increases power and spin at the cost of less consistency.

I've always felt that the advantage of Evert forehands is the high degree of reliability. The early wrist layback and minimal wrist movement make for a consistent shot --exactly the type of stroke a never miss baseliner like Chris had.

Just my 2 cents.

[lukman41985]

I'm not sure I agree about the wrist action in the Evert forehands.

On reviewing the Spanish forehand, I can clearly see a big wrist ulnar deviation movement on the approach to the ball. You definitely don't see this action to that extent in the Evert forehand.

Agreed

[jeffreycounts]

I'm not sure I agree about the wrist action in the Evert forehands.

On reviewing the Spanish forehand, I can clearly see a big wrist ulnar deviation movement on the approach to the ball. You definitely don't see this action to that extent in the Evert forehand.

I think both forehands maintain hitting structure through the ball. I don't see the wristiness of the Evert forehand that you describe.

It almost seems counterintuitive to me that the Evert forehand would be more wristy. To me, wristiness increases power and spin at the cost of less consistency.

I've always felt that the advantage of Evert forehands is the high degree of reliability. The early wrist layback and minimal wrist movement make for a consistent shot --exactly the type of stroke a never miss baseliner like Chris had.

Just my 2 cents.

Let me clarify. When Evert hits the ball the tip of her racket moves towards the net, so that the tip of the racket faces the net. This is a specific type of wrist movement that causes this. You don't see this wrist movement, which causes the racket tip to point towards the net, in the modern forehand.

In the modern forehand, you do see wrist rotation, but this is very different from what Evert is doing. The bottom line, whatever the causes are, is that you never see the tip of the racket pointing towards the net after the hit today.

[jeffreycounts]

I'm not sure I agree about the wrist action in the Evert forehands.

On reviewing the Spanish forehand, I can clearly see a big wrist ulnar deviation movement on the approach to the ball. You definitely don't see this action to that extent in the Evert forehand.

I think both forehands maintain hitting structure through the ball. I don't see the wristiness of the Evert forehand that you describe.

If you don't see a difference here, then there isn't much else I can say.

[lukman41985]

Jeff,
The tip of the racket doesn't move forward strictly because of wrist movement. There are multiple segments of the body that can contribute to this phenomenon. Also, please give me your thoughts about why the tip of Hewitt's racket moves more towards the net than almost all modern tour players?