Whassup with Federer?

[ochi]

Same old sad story -- unforced errors

Throughout Roland Garros, Federer seemed to have gotten over his strange, 14-month tendency to hit dozens of unforced errors, mainly forehands -- until the final, when he hit 35 to Nadal's seven. They included many forehands and a bunch at net. Go ahead, blame it on Rafa, blame it on the importance of the match to Federer's place in tennis history, but why should any of us buy it? Yet, what else is there to blame it on? He said he felt good, that he was ready to go. Now, I would not be surprised to see Rafa win Wimbledon. Like Sampras, I think he wants it more.

[gsheiner]

I;m not sure the tennis world is giving Rafa his due. He is clearly one of the two best clay courters of all time and may actually be the best.

Borg's post match interview was very interesting. They asked him how he would play Nadal and he said he would be patient and wait for the right ball.

Borg might be the only guy in the history of tennis with the conditioning, speed, mental strength, and backhand to actually be able to play with Nadal for 4 or 5 hours.

Could Borg's two hander have handled the Rafa forehand?

There doesn't appear to be any one on the tour who will be able to challenge Rafa on clay for the next few years.

If Rafa can win a slam or two on other surfaces, then he will start to be included in connversations about all-time greats.

[johnyandell]

Too sad to think about! Rafa is a vicious killer and I mean that as the higest compliment. Just want Roger to win the French because I like him and want to see the monkeys off his back. (Monkey = Media Pundit)

[uspta146749877]

Before Wimbledon

I;m not sure the tennis world is giving Rafa his due. He is clearly one of the two best clay courters of all time and may actually be the best.

Borg's post match interview was very interesting. They asked him how he would play Nadal and he said he would be patient and wait for the right ball.

Borg might be the only guy in the history of tennis with the conditioning, speed, mental strength, and backhand to actually be able to play with Nadal for 4 or 5 hours.

Could Borg's two hander have handled the Rafa forehand?

There doesn't appear to be any one on the tour who will be able to challenge Rafa on clay for the next few years.

If Rafa can win a slam or two on other surfaces, then he will start to be included in connversations about all-time greats.

Say you are a Nadal's coach.
What kind of advice would you give him
in his prepation for Wimbledon and a possible match vs Federer?
julian

[lukman41985]

Say you are a Nadal's coach.
What kind of advice would you give him
in his prepation for Wimbledon and a possible match vs Federer?
julian

Don't hurt your knee during the end of the 4th set again, because in all likelihood, it's going 5 one more time!

[gsheiner]

Say you are a Nadal's coach.
What kind of advice would you give him
in his prepation for Wimbledon and a possible match vs Federer?
julian


This is a fascinating subject. We all focus on Federer's patterns against Nadal on clay but pay less attention to Nadal's patterns against Federer and others on grass and hard court.

There is no question that Nadal has dominating clay court patterns.

I think it all starts with his service philosophy.

Nadal stands closer to the center line than any other lefthander I'm aware of. I checked every leftie in the archives including Andres Gomez, Leconte, Laver, and his Spanish lefty contemporaries Verdasco and Lopez.

Nadal hugs the center line in the deuce court so much that his knees actually seem to cross over the center line.

I believe this gives him a vicious slice angle down the T. It's either a winner or forces righties to hit a weak backhand return from which Nadal can dominate with his forehand.

From this position however it is harder for him to serve wide in the deuce court. Watch him carefully, he hardly ever serves wide in the deuce court and when he does he doesn't get it up the line like the great lefties like Mac.

On clay, this tradeoff obviously works but I don't think it works as well on other surfaces.

Since I have no charting data to substantiate what I just stated, let me just say that this is a supposition.

However, it's obvious that his patterns don't work as well on non-clay surfaces. ( Many reasons obviously -- height of bouce etc)

So, the first thing i would do as Nadal's coach is have him work on a better serve wide in the deuce court.

This may mean experimenting with standing a little further off the center line to get a better angle.

However, I don't think Nadal will do this as he doesn't appear to be an experimenter. He may believe, and rightly so, that if his knees hold up he can win a a major on any surface.

Where you will see a change in the Nadal serving strategy is in the ad court. On clay against Federer at the French Open, he went almost exclusively to the backhand ( why not, it worked beautifully) but on grass at Wimbledon he has changed this pattern.

Two years ago in the first final at Wimbledon, I charted the Nadal serving pattern. He started off by going almost exclusively to the Federer backhand in the ad court and he was quickly down 5-0.

However, from then on in the match he made an adjustment and started to hit a lot of hard serves down the middle in the ad court. As a matter of fact, it was almost 50-50. This also made his wide serve more effective.

However, he never could adjust in the deuce court.

I saw him lose to Thomas Berdych 2 years ago here at the Canadian Open and he tried early in the match to serve wide in the deuce court. He couldn't get it wide enough and Berdych was able to rip forehands off this serve.

The other thing is see in the Nadal game is an over-reliance on crosscourt forehands on non-clay surfaces. When he lost to David Ferrer last year at the Open, Ferrer was sitting on Nadal's crosscourt forehand and taking it on the rise for winning backhands down the line.

I think Nadal has to hit more inside out forhands and down the line forehands to rightie's forehands on non-clay courts to stop them from cheating to cover his crosscourt forehand.

I believe Nadal adjusts his return position on non-clay surfaces but without watching and charting his matches, it would be impossible for me to make any comment about return strategy.

I get the feeling that Nadal is quite clever with his understanding of patterns. It will be very interesting to watch his play the next few months.

Just my two cents.

By the way, if you're coaching Verdasco or Lopez and you see Nadal dominating with his positioning for his deuce court serve, wouldn't you be tempted to try it and see what it's like?

[JanWaechli]

have you ever been fed up with work?

imagine you have been working for 5 years at a project night and day, and then there is a chance to skip work for a few days with not much harm done. would you be very motivated to give it all for another day again? even if this is just in the back of your mind, you probably loose.

[airforce1]

I tend to root for Federer over Nadal when they play. Federer's virtues as a player appeal to me more than do Nadal's. Nevertheless, going into the final I suspect that Federer doesn't have a real chance. Why?
1) I think that Nadal's backhand is now better than Federer's on clay. The drive is better, and N's slice has improved a lot. This means that Federer doesn't really have a place to go to consitently hurt Nadal. And that's different than was the case even a year ago. Also, it means that there are many less patterns to play that will give Fed the advantage in court dynamics.
2) Nadal will be playing his game. Federer will be changing his game to beat Nadal on clay. At crunch time the guy who doesn't have to choose how to play has an advantage: he doesn't have to think, and so, he doesn't have anxiety or uncertainty. Just clarity and empty-mind state of being, which allows his nature/game to emerge.
3) Nadal's serve has improved to the point that I will be surprised (gleeful but surprised) if Federer can consitently hurt Nadal when returning.
4) Federer has had his service games broken a fair # of times by lesser players than Nadal during this tournament. F will have to serve lights out to dominate sufficiently on his own service games that he'll feel comfortable taking risks on N's service game.

I hope that Federer plays the match of his life and wins the tournament, but I think that's a fairly low-odds propostion before the fact.

Not bad commentary on how the match went. Nice vision.

[uspta146749877]

Can Nadal imitate a Federe's "short game"

Say you are a Nadal's coach.
What kind of advice would you give him
in his prepation for Wimbledon and a possible match vs Federer?
julian


This is a fascinating subject. We all focus on Federer's patterns against Nadal on clay but pay less attention to Nadal's patterns against Federer and others on grass and hard court.

There is no question that Nadal has dominating clay court patterns.

I think it all starts with his service philosophy.

Nadal stands closer to the center line than any other lefthander I'm aware of. I checked every leftie in the archives including Andres Gomez, Leconte, Laver, and his Spanish lefty contemporaries Verdasco and Lopez.

Nadal hugs the center line in the deuce court so much that his knees actually seem to cross over the center line.

I believe this gives him a vicious slice angle down the T. It's either a winner or forces righties to hit a weak backhand return from which Nadal can dominate with his forehand.

From this position however it is harder for him to serve wide in the deuce court. Watch him carefully, he hardly ever serves wide in the deuce court and when he does he doesn't get it up the line like the great lefties like Mac.

On clay, this tradeoff obviously works but I don't think it works as well on other surfaces.

Since I have no charting data to substantiate what I just stated, let me just say that this is a supposition.

However, it's obvious that his patterns don't work as well on non-clay surfaces. ( Many reasons obviously -- height of bouce etc)

So, the first thing i would do as Nadal's coach is have him work on a better serve wide in the deuce court.

This may mean experimenting with standing a little further off the center line to get a better angle.

However, I don't think Nadal will do this as he doesn't appear to be an experimenter. He may believe, and rightly so, that if his knees hold up he can win a a major on any surface.

Where you will see a change in the Nadal serving strategy is in the ad court. On clay against Federer at the French Open, he went almost exclusively to the backhand ( why not, it worked beautifully) but on grass at Wimbledon he has changed this pattern.

Two years ago in the first final at Wimbledon, I charted the Nadal serving pattern. He started off by going almost exclusively to the Federer backhand in the ad court and he was quickly down 5-0.

However, from then on in the match he made an adjustment and started to hit a lot of hard serves down the middle in the ad court. As a matter of fact, it was almost 50-50. This also made his wide serve more effective.

However, he never could adjust in the deuce court.

I saw him lose to Thomas Berdych 2 years ago here at the Canadian Open and he tried early in the match to serve wide in the deuce court. He couldn't get it wide enough and Berdych was able to rip forehands off this serve.

The other thing is see in the Nadal game is an over-reliance on crosscourt forehands on non-clay surfaces. When he lost to David Ferrer last year at the Open, Ferrer was sitting on Nadal's crosscourt forehand and taking it on the rise for winning backhands down the line.

I think Nadal has to hit more inside out forhands and down the line forehands to rightie's forehands on non-clay courts to stop them from cheating to cover his crosscourt forehand.

I believe Nadal adjusts his return position on non-clay surfaces but without watching and charting his matches, it would be impossible for me to make any comment about return strategy.

I get the feeling that Nadal is quite clever with his understanding of patterns. It will be very interesting to watch his play the next few months.

Just my two cents.

By the way, if you're coaching Verdasco or Lopez and you see Nadal dominating with his positioning for his deuce court serve, wouldn't you be tempted to try it and see what it's like?

---> can Nadal IMITATE a pattern described below
USING THE WHOLE COURT

Federer makes full use of the court -- including the service-box areas
-- better than anyone else on the tour. Most players (like Lleyton Hewitt) spend
their time hoping to keep the ball deep. Federer seems to spend his time
thinking about how to use the full space. He has one forehand shot that I've never seen another player use. He takes it off a short, low
ball (1) when he's up around the center service line and moving forward and
toward the backhand side. He'll really wrap his wrist around this shot, getting
such exaggerated topspin that the ball leaps over the net and immediately lands
inside the opposite side (deuce court) service box (2). His opponent, back at
the base line, is taken by surprise and forced to rush up as if he were chasing
down a drop shot. Often, Federer's shot is a clear winner. If not, he is at the
net, ready to take the rising return -- it's almost always going cross-court (3)
-- with a volley (4) to end the point.

[uspta146749877]

Nadal on grass

Say you are a Nadal's coach.
What kind of advice would you give him
in his prepation for Wimbledon and a possible match vs Federer?
julian


This is a fascinating subject. We all focus on Federer's patterns against Nadal on clay but pay less attention to Nadal's patterns against Federer and others on grass and hard court.

There is no question that Nadal has dominating clay court patterns.

I think it all starts with his service philosophy.


Nadal stands closer to the center line than any other lefthander I'm aware of. I checked every leftie in the archives including Andres Gomez, Leconte, Laver, and his Spanish lefty contemporaries Verdasco and Lopez.

Nadal hugs the center line in the deuce court so much that his knees actually seem to cross over the center line.

I believe this gives him a vicious slice angle down the T. It's either a winner or forces righties to hit a weak backhand return from which Nadal can dominate with his forehand.

From this position however it is harder for him to serve wide in the deuce court. Watch him carefully, he hardly ever serves wide in the deuce court and when he does he doesn't get it up the line like the great lefties like Mac.

On clay, this tradeoff obviously works but I don't think it works as well on other surfaces.

Since I have no charting data to substantiate what I just stated, let me just say that this is a supposition.

However, it's obvious that his patterns don't work as well on non-clay surfaces. ( Many reasons obviously -- height of bouce etc)

So, the first thing i would do as Nadal's coach is have him work on a better serve wide in the deuce court.

This may mean experimenting with standing a little further off the center line to get a better angle.

However, I don't think Nadal will do this as he doesn't appear to be an experimenter. He may believe, and rightly so, that if his knees hold up he can win a a major on any surface.

Where you will see a change in the Nadal serving strategy is in the ad court. On clay against Federer at the French Open, he went almost exclusively to the backhand ( why not, it worked beautifully) but on grass at Wimbledon he has changed this pattern.

Two years ago in the first final at Wimbledon, I charted the Nadal serving pattern. He started off by going almost exclusively to the Federer backhand in the ad court and he was quickly down 5-0.

However, from then on in the match he made an adjustment and started to hit a lot of hard serves down the middle in the ad court. As a matter of fact, it was almost 50-50. This also made his wide serve more effective.

However, he never could adjust in the deuce court.

I saw him lose to Thomas Berdych 2 years ago here at the Canadian Open and he tried early in the match to serve wide in the deuce court. He couldn't get it wide enough and Berdych was able to rip forehands off this serve.

The other thing is see in the Nadal game is an over-reliance on crosscourt forehands on non-clay surfaces. When he lost to David Ferrer last year at the Open, Ferrer was sitting on Nadal's crosscourt forehand and taking it on the rise for winning backhands down the line.

I think Nadal has to hit more inside out forhands and down the line forehands to rightie's forehands on non-clay courts to stop them from cheating to cover his crosscourt forehand.

I believe Nadal adjusts his return position on non-clay surfaces but without watching and charting his matches, it would be impossible for me to make any comment about return strategy.

I get the feeling that Nadal is quite clever with his understanding of patterns. It will be very interesting to watch his play the next few months.

Just my two cents.

By the way, if you're coaching Verdasco or Lopez and you see Nadal dominating with his positioning for his deuce court serve, wouldn't you be tempted to try it and see what it's like?

click

http://www.atptennis.com/1/en/home/

click Thursday highlights

[uspta146749877]

Nadal

I;m not sure the tennis world is giving Rafa his due. He is clearly one of the two best clay courters of all time and may actually be the best.

Borg's post match interview was very interesting. They asked him how he would play Nadal and he said he would be patient and wait for the right ball.

Borg might be the only guy in the history of tennis with the conditioning, speed, mental strength, and backhand to actually be able to play with Nadal for 4 or 5 hours.

Could Borg's two hander have handled the Rafa forehand?

There doesn't appear to be any one on the tour who will be able to challenge Rafa on clay for the next few years.

If Rafa can win a slam or two on other surfaces, then he will start to be included in connversations about all-time greats.

please read

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3441735&name=bodo_peter

[gsheiner]

Federer makes full use of the court -- including the service-box areas
-- better than anyone else on the tour. Most players (like Lleyton Hewitt) spend
their time hoping to keep the ball deep. Federer seems to spend his time
thinking about how to use the full space. He has one forehand shot that I've never seen another player use. He takes it off a short, low
ball (1) when he's up around the center service line and moving forward and
toward the backhand side. He'll really wrap his wrist around this shot, getting
such exaggerated topspin that the ball leaps over the net and immediately lands
inside the opposite side (deuce court) service box (2). His opponent, back at
the base line, is taken by surprise and forced to rush up as if he were chasing
down a drop shot. Often, Federer's shot is a clear winner. If not, he is at the
net, ready to take the rising return -- it's almost always going cross-court (3)
-- with a volley (4) to end the point.




I've seen Fed hit that shot --very impressive demonstration of racket control and head speed.

But, it's not a shot he uses often.

Nadal is not too shabby on low short forehands either -- I think he hits them with a lot of sidespin as well to pull people off the court.

[uspta146749877]

seeds for Wimbledon

click

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon08/news/story?id=3450160

[ochi]

I saw this quote of Djokovic about Federer in the Times. This is the kind of stuff football players hang on their lockers to motivate them to victory against big mouths.

''Some things are changing. I think he's a little bit shaken with that loss and mentally he has been struggling in the last couple of months,' Djokovic said earlier this week in London. 'New names are coming, fresh talented players who believe more they can win against him and I am one of them. Suddenly he is worried a little bit."

If you make it to the semis to face Roger, look out, Novak!

[uspta146749877]

Science of coaching

I;m not sure the tennis world is giving Rafa his due. He is clearly one of the two best clay courters of all time and may actually be the best.

Borg's post match interview was very interesting. They asked him how he would play Nadal and he said he would be patient and wait for the right ball.

Borg might be the only guy in the history of tennis with the conditioning, speed, mental strength, and backhand to actually be able to play with Nadal for 4 or 5 hours.

Could Borg's two hander have handled the Rafa forehand?

There doesn't appear to be any one on the tour who will be able to challenge Rafa on clay for the next few years.

If Rafa can win a slam or two on other surfaces, then he will start to be included in connversations about all-time greats.

click

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon08/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=3448502