Whassup with Federer?

[airforce1]

Sorry, but that's a win for Fed to make the finals on Clay and push Nadal this hard, the way this year has started for Fed. It's also big that he won the second set in a breaker too.

He may not win the French, but he is sliding right in the slot to have a great shot at it.

[jeffreycounts]

Sorry, but that's a win for Fed to make the finals on Clay and push Nadal this hard, the way this year has started for Fed. It's also big that he won the second set in a breaker too.

He may not win the French, but he is sliding right in the slot to have a great shot at it.

I totally agree. Looks like the old Fed is back and that's a real relief. To me, Nadal looks unbeatable on clay. Too much power, too much spin, too much quickness, too much touch. The forehand is too good. The backhand is too good. The best chance for Federer would be for Nadal to get hurt in my opinion.

I find it almost heartbreaking that Federer can beat everyone else in the world on clay except for one guy. It's almost unfair that he can't win the French because of one other person.

[oliensis]

I totally agree. Looks like the old Fed is back and that's a real relief. To me, Nadal looks unbeatable on clay. Too much power, too much spin, too much quickness, too much touch. The forehand is too good. The backhand is too good. The best chance for Federer would be for Nadal to get hurt in my opinion.

I find it almost heartbreaking that Federer can beat everyone else in the world on clay except for one guy. It's almost unfair that he can't win the French because of one other person.

But this is EXACTLY what makes tennis so enthralling, when it is enthralling. There are 2 characters. There's almost a moral dimension: on clay one guy just appears to be too physically imposing (Nadal) while the other guy has to figure out how to exploit some previously hidden element in the game (Federer). And therein does the battle gain heft, importance, significance, drama.

I root for Federer more on clay than on other surfaces precisely because he does NOT win by dint of talent alone. Were F to win the French against Nadal in the final it would be a victory of cunning, choice of patterns, variety, breadth of game, ability to adapt, persistence, in short, of character. It would be the sweetest sort of victory.

[uspta146749877]

footwork of Nadal vs footwork of Federer

I agree with you guys ( oliensis and USPTA) and appreciate the comments and links.

I couldn't agree more that Federer has to attack early in the points and commit to that strategy for at least a set and a part of the second if he's losing.

The truth is he probably needs to commit to that strategy for the whole match, but that may be beyond his mental tolerance if he's losing.

As for Nadal's patterns and the opportunities they present for a talented and clever opponent.

In the matches that I've seen Nadal lose recently on hard court ( didn't see the Ferrero match on clay unfortunately, but I've wondered if Nadal didn't tank a little to rest), he's been beaten by guys talented enough to attack his shots early. Davydenko did this brilliantly in Miami ( of course, Nadal beat him in the rematch on clay).

David Ferrer did this brilliantly in the US OPen. What Ferrer did ( in my eyes) was to key on the fact that almost every Rafa forehand goes crosscourt. So, since he know where the ball was going , Ferrer decided to step in and hit his 2 hander up the line. He killed Nadal with this pattern.

I was yelling for my boy Rafa to hit more inside out forehands to the Ferrer forehand to keep Ferrer honest but he didn't do it.

And , in the link USPTA provided, Darren Cahill describes that Ferrero beat beat Nadal recently by using his two handed backhand up the line as well.

Of course, Nadal is much more vulnerable to this tactic on hard court versus clay.

Actually, that's my main criticism of Nadal's patterns. At times, he goes a little too much to his crosscourt forehand and doesn't take advantage of the fact that guys are overplaying that shot and giving him a lot of room to hit the inside out and down the line forehands.

Of course, on clay he hardly ever loses so why should he change? As Oliensis noted, it also keeps his mind calm in big moments.

But, if would be interesting if one were Nadal's coach, to chart his matches on hard court versus clay and see if there are numbers to support my theory that he should be hitting more inside out and down the line forehands on hard court.

Hi,
couple loose thoughts about Federer and Nadal.

A footwork of Nadal on clay is superior comparing with Federer-this aspect of his game is underrated
at least by some TV commentators.
A length of slide by Nadal and Serbians and Croatians is generally
longer than a corresponding one by Federer.
A more wet clay surface would be an equalizer for Federer
but it does NOT happen very often at Roland Garros.

Another observation is that Nadal does NOT change diagonals
very often by own his initiative.
It may be a result of his confidence that his shot tolerance
is higher than majority of his opponents so there is NO ADDED
VALUE in switching diagonals.
It spares his body as well which is becoming of concern lately
see Brad Gilbert in the latest issue of Tennis.
I have seen rallies as long as 25 touches vs Federer on clay lately.
It is interesting that directionals do NOT ALWAYS apply for Nadal.

See as well about defensive skills of Federer
click

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/french08/news/story?id=3403702

The Nadal"s backhand is basically a defensive tool but it has a significant topspin component to prevent an opponent from attacking.
Some of his backhands are NOT deep enough especially crosscourt.

Majority of high backhands of his oponents are NOT penetrating enough.
Ferrer is an exception here.

Some of those thoughts/observations are NOT original-
see for example an article by Patrick McEnroe I posted at this forum some
time ago.
The question which elements of strategy/tactics to transfer from clay
to hard surfaces is an interesting one.
Another question is whether the Nadal's serve is good enough for grass and
hard surfaces
See as well

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1074

See as well predictions for French Open

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1085&page=2

Back to my nap now
julian uspta 27873

[uspta146749877]

French Open predictions by espn.com

Sorry, but that's a win for Fed to make the finals on Clay and push Nadal this hard, the way this year has started for Fed. It's also big that he won the second set in a breaker too.

He may not win the French, but he is sliding right in the slot to have a great shot at it.

click

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/french08/news/story?id=3409302

and

http://www.atptennis.com/5/en/deuce/may2008/nadal.asp

Back to my nap

[uspta146749877]

Nadal and hard surfaces

I agree with you guys ( oliensis and USPTA) and appreciate the comments and links.

I couldn't agree more that Federer has to attack early in the points and commit to that strategy for at least a set and a part of the second if he's losing.

The truth is he probably needs to commit to that strategy for the whole match, but that may be beyond his mental tolerance if he's losing.

As for Nadal's patterns and the opportunities they present for a talented and clever opponent.

In the matches that I've seen Nadal lose recently on hard court ( didn't see the Ferrero match on clay unfortunately, but I've wondered if Nadal didn't tank a little to rest), he's been beaten by guys talented enough to attack his shots early. Davydenko did this brilliantly in Miami ( of course, Nadal beat him in the rematch on clay).

David Ferrer did this brilliantly in the US OPen. What Ferrer did ( in my eyes) was to key on the fact that almost every Rafa forehand goes crosscourt. So, since he know where the ball was going , Ferrer decided to step in and hit his 2 hander up the line. He killed Nadal with this pattern.

I was yelling for my boy Rafa to hit more inside out forehands to the Ferrer forehand to keep Ferrer honest but he didn't do it.

And , in the link USPTA provided, Darren Cahill describes that Ferrero beat beat Nadal recently by using his two handed backhand up the line as well.

Of course, Nadal is much more vulnerable to this tactic on hard court versus clay.

Actually, that's my main criticism of Nadal's patterns. At times, he goes a little too much to his crosscourt forehand and doesn't take advantage of the fact that guys are overplaying that shot and giving him a lot of room to hit the inside out and down the line forehands.

Of course, on clay he hardly ever loses so why should he change? As Oliensis noted, it also keeps his mind calm in big moments.

But, if would be interesting if one were Nadal's coach, to chart his matches on hard court versus clay and see if there are numbers to support my theory that he should be hitting more inside out and down the line forehands on hard court.

A comment by one of commentators of the today"s Nadal vs Bellucci match:
"A flat ball against a Nadal's forehand is a way to win on hard surfaces".
Any thoughts about it?

[oliensis]

Flat Forehand Against Nadal

A comment by one of commentators of the today"s Nadal vs Bellucci match:
"A flat ball against a Nadal's forehand is a way to win on hard surfaces".
Any thoughts about it?

I saw that. And I think there's something to that. A flat down-the-line forehand takes time away from Nadal and punishes him for planting himself so far to his right on the baseline so he can hit more forehands. Then he also has to change directions on that shot in order to go cross-court, which is harder....but then again, you're giving him a forehand...

I was happy to hear commentators during Fed 1st round match talking about how he needs to be more aggressive on the service return. I agree w/ that. If he floats the ball back to Nadal, then Nadal takes his first groundstroke cut as an offensive move, and controls the point...probably turning it into a multi-stroke topspin battle...which ain't to Fed's advantage.

[gsheiner]

I agree with what's being said --about hitting flat to the Nadal forehand and by being aggressive on the service return against Nadal.

I would add that it seems to me that Nadal only loses when people take his shots early and are aggressive with them ( Berdych, Blake, Davydenko, Ferrer, Federer on grass or hard court). I think aggressiveness is the key --either to the backhand or forehand but again it would be an interesting stat to chart.

Also, I agree that Federer should run around the backhand on his second serve return against Nadal. A passive backhand return just gives the initiative to Nadal.

I thought that Federer was running around the second serve return more in their last meeting and I wondered if this was something that Higueras had mentioned to him.

If we get a Federer/ Nadal final, I'll chart the second serve return patterns for Federer.

[uspta146749877]

Analysis of the 2006 French Open Final

I agree with what's being said --about hitting flat to the Nadal forehand and by being aggressive on the service return against Nadal.

I would add that it seems to me that Nadal only loses when people take his shots early and are aggressive with them ( Berdych, Blake, Davydenko, Ferrer, Federer on grass or hard court). I think aggressiveness is the key --either to the backhand or forehand but again it would be an interesting stat to chart.

Also, I agree that Federer should run around the backhand on his second serve return against Nadal. A passive backhand return just gives the initiative to Nadal.

I thought that Federer was running around the second serve return more in their last meeting and I wondered if this was something that Higueras had mentioned to him.

If we get a Federer/ Nadal final, I'll chart the second serve return patterns for Federer.

Please see

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=529

[uspta146749877]

Higueras and a press conference

I agree with what's being said --about hitting flat to the Nadal forehand and by being aggressive on the service return against Nadal.

I would add that it seems to me that Nadal only loses when people take his shots early and are aggressive with them ( Berdych, Blake, Davydenko, Ferrer, Federer on grass or hard court). I think aggressiveness is the key --either to the backhand or forehand but again it would be an interesting stat to chart.

Also, I agree that Federer should run around the backhand on his second serve return against Nadal. A passive backhand return just gives the initiative to Nadal.

I thought that Federer was running around the second serve return more in their last meeting and I wondered if this was something that Higueras had mentioned to him.

If we get a Federer/ Nadal final, I'll chart the second serve return patterns for Federer.

u may click

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=415620

Not so much substance

[uspta146749877]

Running around on a return of serve

I agree with what's being said --about hitting flat to the Nadal forehand and by being aggressive on the service return against Nadal.

I would add that it seems to me that Nadal only loses when people take his shots early and are aggressive with them ( Berdych, Blake, Davydenko, Ferrer, Federer on grass or hard court). I think aggressiveness is the key --either to the backhand or forehand but again it would be an interesting stat to chart.

Also, I agree that Federer should run around the backhand on his second serve return against Nadal. A passive backhand return just gives the initiative to Nadal.

I thought that Federer was running around the second serve return more in their last meeting and I wondered if this was something that Higueras had mentioned to him.

If we get a Federer/ Nadal final, I'll chart the second serve return patterns for Federer.

Running around on a return of serve very difficult against lefty
serving at your backhand because it puts u almost in an alley.
It requires a lot of fitness ( which by the way is one of
Higuearas's areas of expertise)

[oliensis]

Running around on a return of serve very difficult against lefty
serving at your backhand because it puts u almost in an alley.
It requires a lot of fitness ( which by the way is one of
Higuearas's areas of expertise)

It does take some extra movement early in the point...but here's an important question: does it take BETTER fitness than floating the return and then trying to run down 6 or 7 shots when Nadal is the aggressor and has you on a string?

[uspta146749877]

It is a good question

It does take some extra movement early in the point...but here's an important question: does it take BETTER fitness than floating the return and then trying to run down 6 or 7 shots when Nadal is the aggressor and has you on a string?

I believe Fed will try it.
I believe Rafa will serve mainly to his backhand.
Once more-it is easier to do on clay than grass.
Back to my nap
Could you describe a footwork when you start running around on a backhand return of a SECOND serve?
Does a right foot goes BACK FIRST?
click and compare footworks for

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/tournament/mens/umag_serves_returns_net_2006/backhand_return/backhand_return_2nd_serve_ad/backhand_return_2nd_serve_ad.html?CilicBHRet2ndSAdFront.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/tournament/mens/umag_serves_returns_net_2006/forehand_return/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad.html?DjokovicFHRet2ndSAdSide1.mov

and

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/tournament/mens/umag_serves_returns_net_2006/forehand_return/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad.html?DjokovicFHRet2ndSAdSide1.mov

and Moya"s
[url]
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/tournament/mens/umag_serves_returns_net_2006/forehand_return/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad.html?MoyaFHRet2ndSAdF ront1.mov

[uspta146749877]

Moya"s shot

It does take some extra movement early in the point...but here's an important question: does it take BETTER fitness than floating the return and then trying to run down 6 or 7 shots when Nadal is the aggressor and has you on a string?

I meant
and Moya"s
[url]
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/tournament/mens/umag_serves_returns_net_2006/forehand_return/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad.html?MoyaFHRet2ndSAdF ront1.mov

[uspta146749877]

Let me try again

It does take some extra movement early in the point...but here's an important question: does it take BETTER fitness than floating the return and then trying to run down 6 or 7 shots when Nadal is the aggressor and has you on a string?

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/tournament/mens/umag_serves_returns_net_2006/forehand_return/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad/forehand_return_2nd_serve_ad.html?MoyaFHRet2ndSAdFront2.mov

We see a karaoke step on this one
As I indicated before Moya is outside an alley
but he comes back
Moya makes TWO steps by a BACK/RIGHT FOOT
and TWO steps by a FRONT/LEFT FOOT.
A bit complex I would say
No karaoke step for Djokovic.
An adjustment of a grip maybe a POTENTIAL issue as well