Interactive Forum: March 2008 The Spanish Forehand

[EricMatuszewski]

Spring is coming, and in pro tennis it's time for the dirt devils to make their money on their favorite surface. Wanna get in on some of the action, then you need to pack some essential items.

1) a mad desire to run for hours and hours grinding out long points.

2) Lots of extra socks (after getting that caked with clay, forget about trying to get em white again).

3) A huge dominating forehand that you can hit while moving in any direction.

The Spaniards and South Americans have defined clay court tennis and some might even say tennis in general, with their forehands. Looking at some of the clips below of Tommy Robredo, Carlos Moya and Juan Carlos Ferrero, can we make any generalizations about what the "Spanish forehand" is?

Robredo Forehand



Moya Forehand



JC Ferrero Forehand

[EricMatuszewski]

QuickTime Versions

Robredo Forehand



Moya Forehand



JC Ferrero Forehand

[stroke]

It seems to me that all the top Spanish guys have the FH as their primary weapon they use to dictate play, going back to Brugera. It also seems like of the 3 players featured in this forum, Moya has the shortest backswing, and I think he has aguably the biggest weapon with his FH of these 3. When you watch Moya play, if he misses with his FH, it seems like a surprise. It is just a very consistent weapon with huge spin.

[lukman41985]

How can you talk about "the" Spanish forehand when Nadal, Brugera, Verdasco, and Corretja use a straight-arm variation? Also, there aren't any elements that Ferrero, Moya, or Robredo have that non-Spaniards do not--there aren't even unique technical combinations...

Am I missing something?

[jperedo]

The spanish players seem to have a more vertical racquet orientation on their takebacks. Compare this to Tim Henman or James Blake with a more horizontal orientation, where the hitting face is towards the ground on takeback. Some Spanish players like verdasco and Nadal seem to make their hitting face almost facing the sky.

I have no idea what this does biomechanically, just something i see. My uneducated guess is this increases the effect of the forehand stretch shortening cycle.

I am still EAGERLY awaiting the Brian Gordon article breaking down the modern pro forehand!

[uspta146749877]

More Vertical

The spanish players seem to have a more vertical racquet orientation on their takebacks. Compare this to Tim Henman or James Blake with a more horizontal orientation, where the hitting face is towards the ground on takeback. Some Spanish players like verdasco and Nadal seem to make their hitting face almost facing the sky.

I have no idea what this does biomechanically, just something i see. My uneducated guess is this increases the effect of the forehand stretch shortening cycle.

I am still EAGERLY awaiting the Brian Gordon article breaking down the modern pro forehand!

jperedo,

more vertical more potential energy utilized
see as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8FoCRbd8bg

[EricMatuszewski]

jperedo,

That's very insightful.

I don't see how it would make any difference in final racket speed either, however, It could explain there aversion for fast surfaces.

What I mean is, setting the racket tip up like this would seem to be an extra complication to a back swing. Which would hurt you more on a faster surface because you presumably have to start your preparations earlier to allow for the extra time needed to do this.

Returns of serve because of the timing pressure would be affected the most. You'd have to stay further back... which the Spaniards on average seem to do.

How would Agassi compare in this portion of the swing?

[jperedo]

I don't think the loop increases the speed directly (ie - gravity's accelration isn't much of a factor to overall acceleration), but my theory is that it increases the potential for pronation speed.

Based on what I know of the SSC, the pronation speed can be increased if there is a passive supination immediately beforehand. This quicker the supination, the greater the speed of pronation. However this needs to be passive, because contracting the supinator muscles will inhibit the pronator muscles. Using a bigger loop may help facilitate supination (ie-stretching/preactivating the pronators) without "turning on" the supinator muscles.

I looked at the Agassi takeback, and at the same position his racquet face is slightly more towards the ground. I also noticed that with Agassi's loop, it looks like his entire double bend is initiating it. Looking at the Spaniards, it appears that the looping action is initiated mostly by the forearm (ie- the upper arm does not loop).

[uspta146749877]

Ssc

I don't think the loop increases the speed directly (ie - gravity's accelration isn't much of a factor to overall acceleration), but my theory is that it increases the potential for pronation speed.

Based on what I know of the SSC, the pronation speed can be increased if there is a passive supination immediately beforehand. This quicker the supination, the greater the speed of pronation. However this needs to be passive, because contracting the supinator muscles will inhibit the pronator muscles. Using a bigger loop may help facilitate supination (ie-stretching/preactivating the pronators) without "turning on" the supinator muscles.

I looked at the Agassi takeback, and at the same position his racquet face is slightly more towards the ground. I also noticed that with Agassi's loop, it looks like his entire double bend is initiating it. Looking at the Spaniards, it appears that the looping action is initiated mostly by the forearm (ie- the upper arm does not loop).

Please expand the acronym SSC

[uspta146749877]

Murray

I don't think the loop increases the speed directly (ie - gravity's accelration isn't much of a factor to overall acceleration), but my theory is that it increases the potential for pronation speed.

Based on what I know of the SSC, the pronation speed can be increased if there is a passive supination immediately beforehand. This quicker the supination, the greater the speed of pronation. However this needs to be passive, because contracting the supinator muscles will inhibit the pronator muscles. Using a bigger loop may help facilitate supination (ie-stretching/preactivating the pronators) without "turning on" the supinator muscles.

I looked at the Agassi takeback, and at the same position his racquet face is slightly more towards the ground. I also noticed that with Agassi's loop, it looks like his entire double bend is initiating it. Looking at the Spaniards, it appears that the looping action is initiated mostly by the forearm (ie- the upper arm does not loop).

Please see as well a discussion at this forum about another Spaniard Murray
julian usptapro 27873
juliantennis@comcast.net
www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

[roartt]

It seems to me that all the top Spanish guys have the FH as their primary weapon they use to dictate play, going back to Brugera. It also seems like of the 3 players featured in this forum, Moya has the shortest backswing, and I think he has aguably the biggest weapon with his FH of these 3. When you watch Moya play, if he misses with his FH, it seems like a surprise. It is just a very consistent weapon with huge spin.

i tought JCF had the strongest forehand? Isn't his forehand known for being a big weapon?

[johnyandell]

Maybe it's a trick question, or maybe there are some things that are "Spanish."

Or maybe some common elements are more "common" among the Spanish players--although used at times and/or to lesser extent by the rest of the top players.

One thing I think the Spanish players were early on is.....????

I have an answer in mind--anyone else have the same idea?

[lukman41985]

Can't be windshield wiping (extreme hand and arm rotation)--you have Laver footage of that.

Can't be extreme grips--Connors and Little Bill had those.

Definitely not open stances.

My guess is extreme torso rotation. My secondary nomination goes to really stretching out that off arm as part of the full turn.

[bottle]

Expand the Acronym?

SSC = Social Security Counters?

[CraigC]

Ssc

SSC refers to the stretch shortening cycle. Or as I call it, the unhinging and flow of the wrist as the arm begins to come forward on your forehand, and the muscle action in the forearm. It happens on other strokes as well but people usually refer to it when discussing the forehand.
CC