The Serve: Part 3

[jeffreycounts]

Let's discuss Chris Lewit's continuation of his Winning Pretty series on the Serve, "Part 3"

[arturohernandez]

I am a bit late to the party here. What strikes me as odd is that tennis coaches are constructing a good serve. But isn't a good serve a combination of lots of different things that kids used to do outside. They would throw rocks, jump, etc.

I know that kids can't play outside or don't like to play outside that much. But if we take all these natural motions and combine them then we get a good serve.

However, if we just construct a serve, then all we have is a serve.

It's kind of like SAT or AP course prep in school. If all you do is prepare someone to ace a test, all they can do is ace the test.

If they learn to read, discuss, engage, then they learn a lot of different skills that will help them beyond a test.

This strikes me as teaching to the test rather than using a test to see if a person is learning.

To me the serve is like a test but learning would involve more than just a serve. It would involve throwing lots of different objects in different ways. Jumping, etc.

Like wax on, wax off, in Karate Kid speak.

Just my 2 cents.

Arturo

[jeffreycounts]

Hi Arturo,

In the next part of the series Chris shows how throwing a football is one of his favorite drills for working with students on their serve. So I think he would agree with you that getting the throwing motion from other sports is ideal and makes learning the serve a lot easier. I, for one, am a big believer in "transfer", which is the technical term for a movement from one sport naturally transferring to another. There is a great video on the Williams sisters where Richard has Venus and Serena throw a pile of rackets as far as they can just to get this throwing motion down. And he has them doing all kinds of other sports in their training like boxing. He was a genius at seeing this concept of transfer.

However, I fully agree with Chris when he says the serve, "is the most complex and difficult shot in the game to master." And building a "world class serve", in my opinion, only comes naturally to a rare few. We even see the stroke plague women players at the highest level (Coco Gauff just double faulted 21 times in her opening page at Indian Wells) and who can forget Guillermo Coria having to retire due to the "yips" with his serve.

Personally, I have rarely had a student not have a deficiency in their serve. It's a complex motion that involves, as Chris shows, the entire body. And from my experience, video analysis is a miracle for coaches and players that allows us to see what is going on. And drills like Chris demonstrates are the best way to teach the body changes in motion. So I agree that ideally kids would have a lot experience just throwing things, not every sport kids play involves a throwing motion.

Jeff

[stotty]

4. Contact

During this step, I like to have my students feel their bodies stretching upwards, which means lower body and upper body as close to a straight line as possible. Sometimes I will stretch them out myself by pulling them upwards while they hold onto the racquet up high.

The sequence of driving up and straightening the legs while fully extending the upper body can be tricky to teach if it doesn't happen naturally. It's a fault rarely discussed in coaching circles. Many players tend to extend their upper body but on contact have their legs bent at the knees or have an early folding at the hips, or both — creating a jackknife-like position. Once this habit forms, it can be extremely difficult to correct. My question is why this folding up of the lower body happens in the first place? In most cases the legs do fully extend but slightly too early, so once the upper is fully extended the legs are flexing in preparation to cushion the landing.

I would be interested to hear how Chris (and other coaches on the forum) views the root cause of this problem. Does it have root cause or is it just inherent with some players and have to be coached out. Oddly enough, in my view, Roger Federer folds just a tad early at the hips compared to other players.

[clewit]

I am a bit late to the party here. What strikes me as odd is that tennis coaches are constructing a good serve. But isn't a good serve a combination of lots of different things that kids used to do outside. They would throw rocks, jump, etc.

I know that kids can't play outside or don't like to play outside that much. But if we take all these natural motions and combine them then we get a good serve.

However, if we just construct a serve, then all we have is a serve.

It's kind of like SAT or AP course prep in school. If all you do is prepare someone to ace a test, all they can do is ace the test.

If they learn to read, discuss, engage, then they learn a lot of different skills that will help them beyond a test.

This strikes me as teaching to the test rather than using a test to see if a person is learning.

To me the serve is like a test but learning would involve more than just a serve. It would involve throwing lots of different objects in different ways. Jumping, etc.

Like wax on, wax off, in Karate Kid speak.

Just my 2 cents.

Arturo

Thanks. Your observation is fair but the analogy is not quite right. The SAT is a means to get accepted into college. It serves no other purpose except perhaps as a proxy for a measure of intelligence or understanding of certain subjects. But the serve has a direct purpose applicable to winning in tennis and you must serve well to play good tennis. I agree with you that learning how to throw other implements is a great idea. But the human muscular system does not know if you are throwing a football, baseball, or hitting a serve. Jumping on the playground is the same as jumping for a serve. The neuromuscular system will adapt to any stimulus.

Best,
Chris

[clewit]

The sequence of driving up and straightening the legs while fully extending the upper body can be tricky to teach if it doesn't happen naturally. It's a fault rarely discussed in coaching circles. Many players tend to extend their upper body but on contact have their legs bent at the knees or have an early folding at the hips, or both — creating a jackknife-like position. Once this habit forms, it can be extremely difficult to correct. My question is why this folding up of the lower body happens in the first place? In most cases the legs do fully extend but slightly too early, so once the upper is fully extended the legs are flexing in preparation to cushion the landing.

I would be interested to hear how Chris (and other coaches on the forum) views the root cause of this problem. Does it have root cause or is it just inherent with some players and have to be coached out. Oddly enough, Roger Federer folds just a tad early at the hips compared to other players.

I agree with everything here including that Roger could have maximized his body extension better. My perspective is that this is a bad habit that many players demonstrate. This habit is a poor habit of movement and can be trained with postural work and learning proper activation of the requisite muscles. I believe improper activation of the hip flexors during flight could be the culprit. Another possibility is the the all triple extenders (ankle, knee, and hip) are not fully extending enough. It depends on the situation. I have had a lot of success fixing these activation or postural issues. When players try to swing very fast they often fold like this, possibly activing the abdominal muscles incorrectly (spinal flexion or abdominal crunch movement). That could be another factor.

[arturohernandez]

Thanks. Your observation is fair but the analogy is not quite right. The SAT is a means to get accepted into college. It serves no other purpose except perhaps as a proxy for a measure of intelligence or understanding of certain subjects. But the serve has a direct purpose applicable to winning in tennis and you must serve well to play good tennis. I agree with you that learning how to throw other implements is a great idea. But the human muscular system does not know if you are throwing a football, baseball, or hitting a serve. Jumping on the playground is the same as jumping for a serve. The neuromuscular system will adapt to any stimulus.

Best,
Chris

I was thinking about a better analogy. Learning to read. Kids need instruction to learn to read. They won't do it spontaneously. They can learn to speak and listen spontaneously but learning to read builds over natural language skills.

So, now I am going to argue against my previous point, in line with your argument. A serve is kind of like reading. It uses an instrument which is not just throwing with the body. Kind of like reading uses letters to spell sounds. It's not natural. It has to be taught.

It would be something like throwing, jumping, and hitting up in the air are to serving as hearing spoken language and speaking back are to reading.

So, now I am flipping sides here. Serves are like other advanced skills humans need and for those even kids need instruction.

How is that for a flip flop?

[jimlosaltos]

I was thinking about a better analogy. Learning to read. Kids need instruction to learn to read. They won't do it spontaneously. They can learn to speak and listen spontaneously but learning to read builds over natural language skills.

So, now I am going to argue against my previous point, in line with your argument. A serve is kind of like reading. It uses an instrument which is not just throwing with the body. Kind of like reading uses letters to spell sounds. It's not natural. It has to be taught.

It would be something like throwing, jumping, and hitting up in the air are to serving as hearing spoken language and speaking back are to reading.

So, now I am flipping sides here. Serves are like other advanced skills humans need and for those even kids need instruction.

How is that for a flip flop?

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Just sayin'

[stotty]

I agree with everything here including that Roger could have maximized his body extension better. My perspective is that this is a bad habit that many players demonstrate. This habit is a poor habit of movement and can be trained with postural work and learning proper activation of the requisite muscles. I believe improper activation of the hip flexors during flight could be the culprit. Another possibility is the the all triple extenders (ankle, knee, and hip) are not fully extending enough. It depends on the situation. I have had a lot of success fixing these activation or postural issues. When players try to swing very fast they often fold like this, possibly activing the abdominal muscles incorrectly (spinal flexion or abdominal crunch movement). That could be another factor.

Thanks, Chris.

What postural exercises/work do you recommend? I assume shadow stroking and having them stretch out during the shadow stroking process? This is what I try and find it beneficial to some degree - but not always. I also use visualisation. I work with good juniors in their development and early performance years. In general it takes years to build good serves and I educate my players to expect a long development process. I like to be patient about building good serves.

Are there any additional exercises or techniques you’ve found particularly useful in getting players to extend? I’d love to give them a try.