A New Perspective on Forehand Grips

[johnyandell]

Would love to get your thoughts on my article, "A New Perspective on Forehand Grips"

[jimlosaltos]

Since John wrote: "INow let's look at Alcaraz. He's on record saying he wants to play like Fed. It's a little hard to see even with Jim's magnification, but I think his grip is only slightly more extreme than Roger. And his hand is probably slightly more on the racket handle," I created a new close-up of Alcraz's grip from a different photo in a different match to compare next to the close up of Fed's grip from John's article.

Forum software is being moody, so I can't put both in the same post.

So, here is Fed's from John's article again, then in the reply immediately below you can see a pretty similar angle of Carlo's forehand grip.

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[jimlosaltos]

The Forum software isn't letting me put the Carlos grip image in the same post for some reason.

So, I'll try here until the software is in a better mood <g>.
Pretty similar angle to the above closeup of Fed's forehand grip. On this shot Carlos' arm is straight and fully extended just about to make impact.

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[stroke]

It looks like it shows as suspected super small difference between the Fed extreme eastern vs Carlos' more classic semi western. The crease in their palm relative to the position on the grip maybe the clearest indicator. Just as interestingly to me, neither seems to have the as taught forever per proper grip size fitting of a small gap between the ring finger and the heel of the hand.

[johnyandell]

Yep, yep, and yep.

[tennisskip1515]

Years ago there was a story in Tennis (or even older, World Tennis?), most likely out of whole cloth, about a spectator at the USOpen. He approached an Aussie as he came off after a match, and mentioned that the player had used a number of forehand grips. "How'd that come about?" our spectator asked. "Bloody mustard on the hot dog I had before the match," said the pro, "got all over my hand, couldn't hold the racquet to save my life..."

In all seriousness, however, I wonder how much variation we'd see were there photos of these players striking their forehands at different heights. This is not to criticize the article – I think it's great and really instructive – but I do suspect we'd see some accommodations to specific circumstances.

[jimlosaltos]

Years ago there was a story in Tennis (or even older, World Tennis?), most likely out of whole cloth, about a spectator at the USOpen. He approached an Aussie as he came off after a match, and mentioned that the player had used a number of forehand grips. "How'd that come about?" our spectator asked. "Bloody mustard on the hot dog I had before the match," said the pro, "got all over my hand, couldn't hold the racquet to save my life..."

In all seriousness, however, I wonder how much variation we'd see were there photos of these players striking their forehands at different heights. This is not to criticize the article – I think it's great and really instructive – but I do suspect we'd see some accommodations to specific circumstances.

Point. While we're dusting off tennis antiquity, I remember an article from that period that claimed Jimmy Connors had 24 forehand grips.

[leogiraldi]

Great article as usual. My take has always been that grips are always negotiable and what matters is whether or not they are enabling or limiting the student in terms of progress.. It's not necessarily obvious or automatic that because a grip is more extreme a student will generate extra top spin for instance compare to a more moderate grip. And so is the other way around. Flexibility, respect to differences and catering to unique personality's needs is what this article seems to confirm. I'm all for it.

[tommyhorton]

Interesting article! I think it was Sergi Bruguera who started the trend to smaller grips in the 90s- it allows you to use your wrist a little bit more. I have played around with holding the end of the grip in the palm, it seems to give you a better flip but it is a little slower in producing the shot. One thing not mentioned is the trigger finger: I like how it lies in the hand no matter what the grip you use compared to the hammer grip. It seems to relax the wrist and that index finger can help produce the windshield wiper finish-Grigor had the biggest trigger finger and looks like Novak has a almost a hammer.
Remember the USTA started using green dots for the juniors because too many kids were getting too extreme with their grips to handle the balls over their shoulders.I think it has paid off. I see less of that and more kids hitting through the ball in their strike zone. Thank you John for all the years you have done this website! I have really enjoyed it

[johnyandell]

Guys thanks for all the feedback. We will get to the women soon! Comments on two topics that never die;

Multiple Grips:

I just don't see skilled players changing grips forehand or otherwise depending on the ball, The hand might slide a little this way and that but in looking at literally thousands of strokes I haven't detected players actually making real change. Different grips affect swing patterns. It's hard enough to have one good swing.

The Wrist:
Brian Gordon has conclusivel demonstrated that even if the wrist moves there is no conscious forward muscle flextion--in fact the opposite. Now whether some of the grips we looked at are capable of increasing internal arm and shoulder rotation (and possibly spin) is an interesting question.

[tennisskip1515]

Guys thanks for all the feedback. We will get to the women soon! Comments on two topics that never die;

Multiple Grips:

I just don't see skilled players changing grips forehand or otherwise depending on the ball, The hand might slide a little this way and that but in looking at literally thousands of strokes I haven't detected players actually making real change. Different grips affect swing patterns. It's hard enough to have one good swing.

Not to be argumentative or defensive, but besides players switching from semi/western to more eastern/continental grips to hit slice/inside-out/squash forehands, which we're seeing more of, I never meant to suggest any pro had something akin to a semi-western *and* western forehand grip, much less full western/eastern. Rather that, as you imply, John, minor adjustments are made in order to deal with varying heights of contact. Think the heel pad contact point sliding downwards, more towards the 4th or 5th bevel (from the 3rd or 4th, 'natch), for an especially high forehand. Me, I'd say that if this adjustment was any given player's "standard" grip we'd say it was a legitimately different grip than what we know them to use on a regulation, waist high forehand.

Perhaps this is semantics only, but I wanted to be more clear about my earlier comment.

[tennisskip1515]

Point. While we're dusting off tennis antiquity, I remember an article from that period that claimed Jimmy Connors had 24 forehand grips.

There's so much in tennis antiquity worth sharing...

I remember reading how Stan Smith said his coach (George Toley at USC, or earlier? I can't recall) told him the three bottom fingers (middle, ring, pinky) were the key to having a good forehand. Yes or no I'm not about to say, but it's an interesting view of the mechanics.

And would we all profit from losing the last joint of our middle fingers, a la Tilden from when he ran into the back fence on a court, so that our thumbs slotted into the now empty space where our middle finger used to be? : )

[jimlosaltos]

There's so much in tennis antiquity worth sharing...

I remember reading how Stan Smith said his coach (George Toley at USC, or earlier? I can't recall) told him the three bottom fingers (middle, ring, pinky) were the key to having a good forehand. Yes or no I'm not about to say, but it's an interesting view of the mechanics.

And would we all profit from losing the last joint of our middle fingers, a la Tilden from when he ran into the back fence on a court, so that our thumbs slotted into the now empty space where our middle finger used to be? : )

A sacrifice I'm unwilling to make, alas, even for tennis.

I fear I must take this opportunity to share a non-tennis joke by President Obama about his then CoS Rahm Emanuel “I think, as many of you were aware, he was working at a deli, [had an] accident with a meat slicing machine, he lost part of his middle finger, and as a result of this, this rendered him practically mute.”

Sorry. I couldn't stop myself.

[stotty]

A good article, focusing on forehand grips. I think all the grips cited are valid and work well for the players in question. I agree with John in that most players fix their grip in one position entirely. I have seen players in extreme situations reach instinctively for a continental grip to retrieve a shot, but it's rare. I have seen players 'wait' with a continental grips to return serve but switch to their default forehand or backhand grip when it comes to striking the return itself.

I do feel when volleying it's beneficial to have the whole of the hand on the racket. It's provides a much firmer hitting foundation especially on the forehand volley, Unfortunately, you generally find that if a player's heel is off the grip on their forehand, it will also be off the grip on their volley. A player can be taught to be off the grip on a forehand and fully on the grip on a volley because I have got many of my better players to do it. It can be grooved and made into a habit just like anything else.

My favourite forehand grip is Verdasco's. His palm sits so deep and beautifully on the handle, it's just perfect.

[jimlosaltos]

A good article, focusing on forehand grips. I think all the grips cited are valid and work well for the players in question. I agree with John in that most players fix their grip in one position entirely. I have seen players in extreme situations reach instinctively for a continental grip to retrieve a shot, but it's rare. I have seen players 'wait' with a continental grips to return serve but switch to their default forehand or backhand grip when it comes to striking the return itself.

I do feel when volleying it's beneficial to have the whole of the hand on the racket. It's provides a much firmer hitting foundation especially on the forehand volley, Unfortunately, you generally find that if a player's heel is off the grip on their forehand, it will also be off the grip on their volley. A player can be taught to be off the grip on a forehand and fully on the grip on a volley because I have got many of my better players to do it. It can be grooved and made into a habit just like anything else.

My favourite forehand grip is Verdasco's. His palm sits so deep and beautifully on the handle, it's just perfect.

An endorsement like that calls out for a re-run of Fernando's most excellent grip <g>.

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