Head Position in Pro Tennis: The Serve

[johnyandell]

Would love to hear your thoughts on my latest article, "Head Position in Pro Tennis: The Serve"

[doctorhl]

John, do you think looking foward slightly before ball contact allows a tad less drag on shoulder rotation?

[johnyandell]

Possibly! Of course there is no way to know...

[jschaff]

I think the key to a consistent serve is to know that the toss goes into the server's preferred location every time. I'm pretty sure that's why they are looking so intently at the ball. So when they are sure that it is, then it's not imperative that they continue looking at the ball rather than where it's going. This whole maneuver is so intricate that there's really no way to decipher the full intention. It's just supposition since they are ALL have such great results. But hey, if Sampras is doing it, it must be right. Even Federer looks up to Pete.

[bryaandy]

John, I think you picked the wrong spot for comparing their serves. In my book "The Trouble With the Serve," I have used the point at which their elbow is above their heads; which gives them more leeway, and you can then compare their whole body posture; and guess what....Pete has the superior posture every time, with both first and second serve tosses being almost identical.You guessed it...Roger is an easy second while 90% of the tour players pre-rotate their upper body in order to gain racquet-head velocity, at the point of contact which causes them to hit more out (or even down) and not up like Pete does. Pete also pronates better and leaves his elbow up (not out) and not reaching out so far out into the court. Pete's toss would barely land inside the baseline, not two or three feet inside.

[rstrecker]

I’d be interested to know if anyone thinks it is actually possible to see contact on the serve regardless of where you look? I’m pretty sure I can’t. Brian Gordon says that the straightening of the forearm up to contact is a kinetic movement that results from torso and shoulder motion, not tricep muscle extension, which make me feel like the server “commits” by throwing the forearm which triggers ulnar deviation, ISR, wrist flexion (from extension to neutral or just past) combined with additional trunk rotation, all happening too fast to consciously control. This is a long way of suggesting that, by the time contact occurs, maybe it doesn’t matter what the server is looking toward, so long as the head doesn’t move in a way that takes the motion off track.

JY, on a related topic, I would love to see a similar analysis of head position and eye focus on the toss, both because I struggle a bit with tossing and because here I think you have a much better chance of putting your eyes to good use. Do some of the greats track the ball in the tossing hand with the eyes before the release even if holding the head still? How about fixing the head and eyes on the release point to trigger the opening of the hand. Of looking up at the target where the ball is intended to go. I have heard multiple theories on this but would love to have authoritative information about the range of practice.

[bryaandy]

My name should be spelled Bryant....thanks

[johnyandell]

Bryant, That must be your login. My point was not an overall comparison, just a note on a common teaching belief.

RS, Yeah Looking at the eyes and the toss could be next.

John

[neilchok]

Bryant, going to try your point on thinking of pronating elbow up, rather than out. Seems like a good explanation for Sampras serve! Here though is his first serve. This is from the high speed archive. This is a first serve from the side, and ball seems to be pretty into the court.

Also to me there is a misnomer in my opinion of Sampras toss being the same on the first and second. I think he tossed the same toss for the first serve (if in body or down the t, or out wide). And had a different but consistent toss for the second serve (which he could also place down the tee, in the body or out wide).

I think in his book he mentioned or have heard in an interview he tosses his second serve a little behind him. You can see this on the toss between his first and second serve. On his first serve, the ball is over his head, but on the second serve it is behind him.

[neilchok]

Here below is his first serve toss compared to second toss serve. This can be seen through high speed archive on this website.

[johnyandell]

YGhttps://www.tennisplayer.net/members/tour_strokes/john_yandell/sampras_serve/sampras_serve_second_serve_part8_images/sampras_serve_second_serve_part8.html



This the article I wrote explaining the contact points on first and second serve

[neilchok]

bryaandy thanks your information you were mentioning here "Pete also pronates better and leaves his elbow up (not out) and not reaching out so far out into the court." is an absolute game changer. I am really popping my serve now!!!

[neilchok]

johnyandell thanks this article is really great!!!

[johnyandell]

Thank you!

[stotty]

Interesting article. In my opinion the difference between head up looking at the ball or head looking down the court is probably about a tenth of a second in real terms so any negative consequences one way or the other are close to non existent I imagine.