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  • The Forgotten Numbers of the French Open

    Let's discuss this fascinating new article from Mark Winters, "The Forgotten Numbers of the French Open"

  • #2
    Thanks for this, Mark, it's super interesting even for those of us who know a good bit about the tournament (but not nearly all that you wrote about). Do you know when the tournament switched from pressureless to pressure tennis balls? I suspect it was early 80s but have not been able to determine the exact year, even though I've asked some pretty knowledgeable folks. I've long maintained that those who dismiss the play of the era pre-mid 80s fail to recognize not only how hard it was to play with wood (let alone hit powerful winners with any consistency), but also that the pressureless balls made it even harder to be assertive in any way more aggressive than refusing to miss. Thanks for any help you can give with this quest of mine.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's extraordinary what gets forgotten over time. You're right, I had never heard of Max Decugis and his remarkable achievement. And I found Jeanne Matthey's story quite moving. I suppose the game was more domestic back then and not so international, so French winners were the order of the day. One shudders to think that Roger Federer could one day be forgotten, but I suppose if enough time passes, he will be. I guess that is what striving for grand slam records is all about...immortality.
      Stotty

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tennisskip1515 View Post
        Thanks for this, Mark, it's super interesting even for those of us who know a good bit about the tournament (but not nearly all that you wrote about). Do you know when the tournament switched from pressureless to pressure tennis balls? I suspect it was early 80s but have not been able to determine the exact year, even though I've asked some pretty knowledgeable folks. I've long maintained that those who dismiss the play of the era pre-mid 80s fail to recognize not only how hard it was to play with wood (let alone hit powerful winners with any consistency), but also that the pressureless balls made it even harder to be assertive in any way more aggressive than refusing to miss. Thanks for any help you can give with this quest of mine.
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5


          image.png

          Comment


          • #6
            The richness of Roland Garros, for that matter all the majors, in essence is “found gold” for tennis enthusiasts. Yet there is so much that is overlooked it is scandalous.

            Here is a snippet from a past story...

            Nowadays, in many setting, history falls victim to “rewriting…” Roland Garros, for some reason has followed a reconstruction approach to the tournament’s history. According to the FFT in 1940 “there was no competition due to World War II”. From 1941 to 1945, the tournament had been “cancelled” …

            But the Tournoi de France was played. Beside the French, competitors from Belgium, Luxembourg and Switzerland participated. Though the champions – Frenchmen Bernard Destremau (1941 and ’42) and Yvon Petra (1943 – ’45) along with Alice Weiwers of Luxembourg in 1941 and ’42, Simone Iribarne Lafargue of France in 1943, Raymonde Veber Jones of France in 1944 and Lolette Payot of Switzerland in 1945 – are not “officially” recognized, but their names are included on the Men’s and Women’s Singles champions’ list.

            Stade Roland Garros has been forever stained by having served from 1939 to 1940, as a “centre de rassemblement”. (That’s a polite name for an internment camp where political dissidents and foreign nationals were detained.) Those euphemistically “housed” at the facility lived and slept in “the caves” beneath the stairwells at what is now Court Philippe Chatrier. Rumors persist and over the years, players have said they can “feel the ghosts” while waiting in the corridor before walking onto Chatrier to play their matches.


            In his biography, “Darkness at Noon”, Arthur Koestler, a Hungarian Jew and a communist, who was eventually able to flee to Great Britain, described the setting, saying that around 600 prisoners slept, like sardines, on wet straw because there were leaks in the structure. Most of the captives knew nothing about tennis but when they were able to walk in the stadium, they could see the names of Borotra and Brugnon atop two of the grandstands.

            Those who took part in the tournaments from 1941 to 1945 were, in some cases quite daring, and from time to time, very courageous. When France was occupied, Destremau, who won the 1938 Roland Garros Men’s Doubles with Petra, made his way to Spain then to North Africa, where as a tank commander, he was wounded fighting for the Free French. Petra was captured in 1940, in Alsace, France during the German invasion. He seriously injured his left knee as he attempted to avoid being captured. He ended up in a prisoner of war camp for two years. Ironically, because he had competed in Germany before the war, and his captors recognized him, which led to a doctor being sent from Berlin to treat his injured leg.

            Sadly, 76 years after the war ended, very few can recall those dire times. For whatever reasons, the “Dark Days”, along with the bloodstains leached into the grounds of Stade Roland Garros, have been “unremembered” by those who are, supposedly, the guardians of the French game.

            Thanks for reaching out and let’s hope that “Forgetting...” the past will not become a tennis tradition.


            image.png

            Comment


            • #7
              The richness of Roland Garros, for that matter all the majors, in essence is “found gold” for tennis enthusiasts. Yet there is so much that is overlooked it is scandalous.

              Here is a snippet from a past story...

              Nowadays, in many setting, history falls victim to “rewriting…” Roland Garros, for some reason has followed a reconstruction approach to the tournament’s history. According to the FFT in 1940 “there was no competition due to World War II”. From 1941 to 1945, the tournament had been “cancelled” …

              But the Tournoi de France was played. Beside the French, competitors from Belgium, Luxembourg and Switzerland participated. Though the champions – Frenchmen Bernard Destremau (1941 and ’42) and Yvon Petra (1943 – ’45) along with Alice Weiwers of Luxembourg in 1941 and ’42, Simone Iribarne Lafargue of France in 1943, Raymonde Veber Jones of France in 1944 and Lolette Payot of Switzerland in 1945 – are not “officially” recognized, but their names are included on the Men’s and Women’s Singles champions’ list.

              Stade Roland Garros has been forever stained by having served from 1939 to 1940, as a “centre de rassemblement”. (That’s a polite name for an internment camp where political dissidents and foreign nationals were detained.) Those euphemistically “housed” at the facility lived and slept in “the caves” beneath the stairwells at what is now Court Philippe Chatrier. Rumors persist and over the years, players have said they can “feel the ghosts” while waiting in the corridor before walking onto Chatrier to play their matches.

              In his biography, “Darkness at Noon”, Arthur Koestler, a Hungarian Jew and a communist, who was eventually able to flee to Great Britain, described the setting, saying that around 600 prisoners slept, like sardines, on wet straw because there were leaks in the structure. Most of the captives knew nothing about tennis but when they were able to walk in the stadium, they could see the names of Borotra and Brugnon atop two of the grandstands.

              Those who took part in the tournaments from 1941 to 1945 were, in some cases quite daring, and from time to time, very courageous. When France was occupied, Destremau, who won the 1938 Roland Garros Men’s Doubles with Petra, made his way to Spain then to North Africa, where as a tank commander, he was wounded fighting for the Free French. Petra was captured in 1940, in Alsace, France during the German invasion. He seriously injured his left knee as he attempted to avoid being captured. He ended up in a prisoner of war camp for two years. Ironically, because he had competed in Germany before the war, and his captors recognized him, which led to a doctor being sent from Berlin to treat his injured leg.

              Sadly, 76 years after the war ended, very few can recall those dire times. For whatever reasons, the “Dark Days”, along with the bloodstains leached into the grounds of Stade Roland Garros, have been “unremembered” by those who are, supposedly, the guardians of the French game.

              Thanks for reaching out and let’s hope that “Forgetting...” the past will not become a tennis tradition.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by stotty View Post
                It's extraordinary what gets forgotten over time. You're right, I had never heard of Max Decugis and his remarkable achievement. And I found Jeanne Matthey's story quite moving. I suppose the game was more domestic back then and not so international, so French winners were the order of the day. One shudders to think that Roger Federer could one day be forgotten, but I suppose if enough time passes, he will be. I guess that is what striving for grand slam records is all about...immortality.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The richness of Roland Garros, for that matter all the majors, in essence is “found gold” for tennis enthusiasts. Yet there is so much that is overlooked it is scandalous.

                  Here is a snippet from a past story...

                  Nowadays, in many setting, history falls victim to “rewriting…” Roland Garros, for some reason has followed a reconstruction approach to the tournament’s history. According to the FFT in 1940 “there was no competition due to World War II”. From 1941 to 1945, the tournament had been “cancelled” …

                  But the Tournoi de France was played. Beside the French, competitors from Belgium, Luxembourg and Switzerland participated. Though the champions – Frenchmen Bernard Destremau (1941 and ’42) and Yvon Petra (1943 – ’45) along with Alice Weiwers of Luxembourg in 1941 and ’42, Simone Iribarne Lafargue of France in 1943, Raymonde Veber Jones of France in 1944 and Lolette Payot of Switzerland in 1945 – are not “officially” recognized, but their names are included on the Men’s and Women’s Singles champions’ list.

                  Stade Roland Garros has been forever stained by having served from 1939 to 1940, as a “centre de rassemblement”. (That’s a polite name for an internment camp where political dissidents and foreign nationals were detained.) Those euphemistically “housed” at the facility lived and slept in “the caves” beneath the stairwells at what is now Court Philippe Chatrier. Rumors persist and over the years, players have said they can “feel the ghosts” while waiting in the corridor before walking onto Chatrier to play their matches.

                  In his biography, “Darkness at Noon”, Arthur Koestler, a Hungarian Jew and a communist, who was eventually able to flee to Great Britain, described the setting, saying that around 600 prisoners slept, like sardines, on wet straw because there were leaks in the structure. Most of the captives knew nothing about tennis but when they were able to walk in the stadium, they could see the names of Borotra and Brugnon atop two of the grandstands.

                  Those who took part in the tournaments from 1941 to 1945 were, in some cases quite daring, and from time to time, very courageous. When France was occupied, Destremau, who won the 1938 Roland Garros Men’s Doubles with Petra, made his way to Spain then to North Africa, where as a tank commander, he was wounded fighting for the Free French. Petra was captured in 1940, in Alsace, France during the German invasion. He seriously injured his left knee as he attempted to avoid being captured. He ended up in a prisoner of war camp for two years. Ironically, because he had competed in Germany before the war, and his captors recognized him, which led to a doctor being sent from Berlin to treat his injured leg.

                  Sadly, 76 years after the war ended, very few can recall those dire times. For whatever reasons, the “Dark Days”, along with the bloodstains leached into the grounds of Stade Roland Garros, have been “unremembered” by those who are, supposedly, the guardians of the French game.

                  Thanks for reaching out and let’s hope that “Forgetting...” the past will not become a tennis tradition.
                  ​​

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The richness of Roland Garros' backstories is “found gold” for tennis enthusiasts. There is so much that has been overlooked it is scandalous.

                    Here is a snippet from a past story...

                    Nowadays, in many settings, history falls victim to “rewriting…” Roland Garros, for some reason has followed a reconstruction approach to the tournament’s history. According to the FFT in 1940 “there was no competition due to World War II”. From 1941 to 1945, the tournament had been “cancelled” …

                    But the Tournoi de France was played. Beside the French, competitors from Belgium, Luxembourg and Switzerland participated. Though the champions – Frenchmen Bernard Destremau (1941 and ’42) and Yvon Petra (1943 – ’45) along with Alice Weiwers of Luxembourg in 1941 and ’42, Simone Iribarne Lafargue of France in 1943, Raymonde Veber Jones of France in 1944 and Lolette Payot of Switzerland in 1945 – are not “officially” recognized, but their names are included on the Men’s and Women’s Singles champions’ list.

                    Stade Roland Garros has been forever stained by having served from 1939 to 1940, as a “centre de rassemblement”. (That’s a polite name for an internment camp where political dissidents and foreign nationals were detained.) Those euphemistically “housed” at the facility lived and slept in “the caves” beneath the stairwells at what is now Court Philippe Chatrier. Rumors persist and over the years, players have said they can “feel the ghosts” while waiting in the corridor before walking onto Chatrier to play their matches.

                    In his biography, “Darkness at Noon”, Arthur Koestler, a Hungarian Jew and a communist, who was eventually able to flee to Great Britain, described the setting, saying that around 600 prisoners slept, like sardines, on wet straw because there were leaks in the structure. Most of the captives knew nothing about tennis but when they were able to walk in the stadium, they could see the names of Borotra and Brugnon atop two of the grandstands.

                    Those who took part in the tournaments from 1941 to 1945 were, in some cases quite daring, and from time to time, very courageous. When France was occupied, Destremau, who won the 1938 Roland Garros Men’s Doubles with Petra, made his way to Spain then to North Africa, where as a tank commander, he was wounded fighting for the Free French. Petra was captured in 1940, in Alsace, France during the German invasion. He seriously injured his left knee as he attempted to avoid being captured. He ended up in a prisoner of war camp for two years. Ironically, because he had competed in Germany before the war, and his captors recognized him, which led to a doctor being sent from Berlin to treat his injured leg.

                    Sadly, 76 years after the war ended, very few can recall those dire times. For whatever reasons, the “Dark Days”, along with the bloodstains leached into the grounds of Stade Roland Garros, have been “unremembered” by those who are, supposedly, the guardians of the French game.

                    Thanks for reaching out and let’s hope that “Forgetting...” the past will not become a tennis tradition.
                    ​​

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by markwinters View Post

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hope you received this...


                        The richness of Roland Garros' backstories is “found gold” for tennis enthusiasts. There is so much that has been overlooked it is scandalous.

                        Here is a snippet from a past story...

                        Nowadays, in many settings, history falls victim to “rewriting…” Roland Garros, for some reason has followed a reconstruction approach to the tournament’s history. According to the FFT in 1940 “there was no competition due to World War II”. From 1941 to 1945, the tournament had been “cancelled” …

                        But the Tournoi de France was played. Beside the French, competitors from Belgium, Luxembourg and Switzerland participated. Though the champions – Frenchmen Bernard Destremau (1941 and ’42) and Yvon Petra (1943 – ’45) along with Alice Weiwers of Luxembourg in 1941 and ’42, Simone Iribarne Lafargue of France in 1943, Raymonde Veber Jones of France in 1944 and Lolette Payot of Switzerland in 1945 – are not “officially” recognized, but their names are included on the Men’s and Women’s Singles champions’ list.

                        Stade Roland Garros has been forever stained by having served from 1939 to 1940, as a “centre de rassemblement”. (That’s a polite name for an internment camp where political dissidents and foreign nationals were detained.) Those euphemistically “housed” at the facility lived and slept in “the caves” beneath the stairwells at what is now Court Philippe Chatrier. Rumors persist and over the years, players have said they can “feel the ghosts” while waiting in the corridor before walking onto Chatrier to play their matches.

                        In his biography, “Darkness at Noon”, Arthur Koestler, a Hungarian Jew and a communist, who was eventually able to flee to Great Britain, described the setting, saying that around 600 prisoners slept, like sardines, on wet straw because there were leaks in the structure. Most of the captives knew nothing about tennis but when they were able to walk in the stadium, they could see the names of Borotra and Brugnon atop two of the grandstands.

                        Those who took part in the tournaments from 1941 to 1945 were, in some cases quite daring, and from time to time, very courageous. When France was occupied, Destremau, who won the 1938 Roland Garros Men’s Doubles with Petra, made his way to Spain then to North Africa, where as a tank commander, he was wounded fighting for the Free French. Petra was captured in 1940, in Alsace, France during the German invasion. He seriously injured his left knee as he attempted to avoid being captured. He ended up in a prisoner of war camp for two years. Ironically, because he had competed in Germany before the war, and his captors recognized him, which led to a doctor being sent from Berlin to treat his injured leg.

                        Sadly, 76 years after the war ended, very few can recall those dire times. For whatever reasons, the “Dark Days”, along with the bloodstains leached into the grounds of Stade Roland Garros, have been “unremembered” by those who are, supposedly, the guardians of the French game.

                        Sorry about the slow response...Thanks for reaching out and let’s hope that “Forgetting...” the past will not become a tennis tradition.

                        image.png
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