Using Stats in Coaching and Playing

[johnyandell]

Andy Durham has been a pioneer in the use of stats at all levels. He has a new app but looking for info on how players, coaches and teachers understand and/or use stats. Would love it if you guys could give him some feedback. Here are his questions:

Are you using any analytics in your playing and or programs?
If yes.
A-Is it charting with paper
B-Is it using an app
C-Is it using a service like SwingVision or other.
D-How do you use it
If no,
A-Is it not useful
B-It is too difficult
1-To learn to use
` 2-Too difficult to interpret the numbers
3-Time and program constraints
4-To find people to chart

[stotty]

I chart matches manually. I chart the score and along the way record unforced errors, forced errors, and winners. I write small summaries at the end of a set or at pivotal moments. It's simple enough to do and is something the LTA over here taught coaches to do manually years ago. I know nothing else so have stuck with it for years.

I did use an app briefly but it was more bother than it was worth and people are apt to think you are texting on the phone rather than doing a the job of charting a match! It's best to put the phone down and chart manually in my view.

Any app would have to be extremely simple to operate if I were to use one. Otherwise why bother.

[jimlosaltos]

I chart matches manually. I chart the score and along the way record unforced errors, forced errors, and winners. I write small summaries at the end of a set or at pivotal moments. It's simple enough to do and is something the LTA over here taught coaches to do manually years ago. I know nothing else so have stuck with it for years.

I did use an app briefly but it was more bother than it was worth and people are apt to think you are texting on the phone rather than doing a the job of charting a match! It's best to put the phone down and chart manually in my view.

Any app would have to be extremely simple to operate if I were to use one. Otherwise why bother.

It's conceivable now to automate the charting from video, if the market is large enough to justify that amount of development.

P.S. While no sane person would hire me to coach, I do have an anecdote from a coach with several NCAA titles and license plates to match. He admitted to coaching during matches and said 90% of it was simply "You're hitting everything to her <insert forehand or whatever> go after her <backhand or wherever >", saying players often don't realize they get in ruts.

[stotty]

It's conceivable now to automate the charting from video, if the market is large enough to justify that amount of development.

P.S. While no sane person would hire me to coach, I do have an anecdote from a coach with several NCAA titles and license plates to match. He admitted to coaching during matches and said 90% of it was simply "You're hitting everything to her <insert forehand or whatever> go after her <backhand or wherever >", saying players often don't realize they get in ruts.

Sure. I think many players can be myopic when playing matches. It's understandable that having an overview of yourself when you're in the thick of it can be challenging. I think this is arguably the most useful things about having a good coach. I remember years ago when Becker was coached by Bob Brett in a match at Wimbledon. Boris couldn't get a first serve in for the life of him and couldn't figure out why. Has luck would have it the rains came to briefly halt the match. Boris then came back a different server because Brett had told him the reason for his poor serving was down to a slightly awry ball toss. Sounds basic but Boris hadn't it figured for himself. That's where a coach can be very useful. This is especially the case with patterns of play which players often don't twig or know how to counter.

Patterns of play can be interesting to chart.

[johnyandell]

I don't coach juniors since I quit high school coaching, but at the time I was I used stats with several players who were playing tournaments, including one who ended up at the top in Norcal juniors.

Here is an article I wrote about it at the time:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strategy/john_yandell/understanding_statistics/Yandell_Going_Insiede_Matches_images/Yandell_Going_Insiede_Matches.html

[stotty]

I don't coach juniors since I quit high school coaching, but at the time I was I used stats with several players who were playing tournaments, including one who ended up at the top in Norcal juniors.

Here is an article I wrote about it at the time:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...e_Matches.html

Great article, John...really super.

The beauty of the statistical analysis is that it makes all this so concrete for the player. It's easy to argue with someone's opinion, whether it's a coach or a parent, who may observe exactly the same tendencies. But it's hard to argue with the numbers. And if you accept and really understand the numbers, it makes the path to the next level seem clear, and maybe most important attainable.

[johnyandell]

Thanks Stotty!! OK there must be more out there with an opinion on this?

[9931]

Working last year with a college team, we used stats two ways: Coaching during a match the advice was very simple. Sitting one on one at another time, we focused on their long term goals. Volunteers or non playing players charted the matches and what was amazing was the increased Tennis IQ of those doing the charting.

[johnyandell]

Interesting! What about the players themselves?

[doctorhl]

Stats, like video, tell a story that some don't want to hear.

[morespin]

doctorhl, exactly! Video and stats don't lie and some people don't want to know the truth.