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Roddick on What's Ailing Alcaraz & Returning Fed's and Sampras' Serves

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  • Roddick on What's Ailing Alcaraz & Returning Fed's and Sampras' Serves

    Andy Roddick has a new podcast on YouTube and launches with his player insights on Alcaraz, why his serve results are declining, by comparing his serve to what it's like returning Fed's and Pistol Pete's

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    Last July, Alcaraz was on top of the tennis world. He physically bullied his way through the Wimbledon final to dethrone Djokovic taking a tiebreak and the fifth set -- 16 76(6) 61 36 64 -- and hasn't won a title at any level since. Carlos lost the Rogers Cup final to Tommy Paul from a set up, then appeared to have the upper hand vs Djokovic in the Cincinnati final, a main run-up to the US Open, but lost from a set up by dropping two tiebreaks: 7-6, 6-7(7), 6-7(4). Some would claim Alcaraz hasn't played his A game in 5 months since.

    The 20 year old didn't seem himself in what I saw of him at the Australian. His touch shot magic was MIA. His fearsome forehand was missing, and he seemed uncertain of his shots, tentative ... something is off. In a lethargic, quarterfinal loss to Zverev, Alcaraz was broken seven (7) times. Vultures are circling and explanations abound. Tim Henman says it's shot selection. Another former ATP pro (forgive me not recalling his name), said last week that Alcaraz is faster and more skilled than Sinner but "nowhere near Sinner in mental toughness." In fairness, Sinner is over 2 years older than the Spaniard, who was tough enough to win 2 slams already. Another said that perhaps Alcaraz played too much tennis too soon and was simply burned out. Quite possible.

    Andy Roddick jumped in with a lengthy discussion on his new podcast on YouTube. Andy started by noting something I've mentioned here, that Carlos' first serve seems to have lost some pop and isn't nearly as effective as back even when he made his first run at the US Open. Since Andy agrees with me, we're both not only right but geniuses! But Andy knows a whole lot more about serves than me so he has some other analysis I haven't seen tackled elsewhere.

    filedata/fetch?id=103342&d=1707500985&type=thumb


    Andy: “I think his serve leaves a lot to be desired. That is the one thing that I don’t think has really improved much at all in the last two years. I remember watching him, kinda his breakout – we knew about him – but winning Miami a couple of years ago and he was serving 135, and now I feel like he’s serving 127.

    The former world No 1 declared that Alcaraz’s serve is “the one thing that I don’t think has really improved much at all in the last two years” and feels there is “not a lot of motion” to his delivery. {Meaning, his delivery doesn't put spin other than topspin on the ball, I believe.} The world No 2 sits ninth in the overall ATP serve rating leaderboard for the past 52 weeks, but has the lowest average aces per match (4.1) among the top 41 ranked servers.

    “I don’t think it’s gonna be super smooth sailing, I think the tournaments that are coming up, obviously Indian Wells is a great surface for him because the ball jumps up and away, that’s gonna give him some love on the kick serve,” the 2003 US Open winner said.

    “There’s not a lot of motion to it, right? There are big servers, who serve straight through the court. And so, they’re the type of servers that serve 136, but if you get a racket on it, you can square it up a little bit. And then there’s like the Roger [Federer] type servers that can serve 118 and the ball’s sliding against your racket and it just feels a little bit squirrely – so where you’re kind of hitting foul balls off the serve.

    “Alcaraz, if he’s not hitting that kick serve – that’s getting you up and away and out of the zone – it feels like people are able to firm up his first serve when he goes after it. You need to create a little motion on that serve, he needs to create a little it of tail. “Especially with how good he is on that first ball and how much he can bully you. Right now, even his slice serve feels like it kind of goes straight. It doesn’t have that like (Pete] Sampras swing on it where it’s tailing away from you and you’re kind of having to chase it.

    “Especially with how good he is on that first ball and how much he can bully you. Right now, even his slice serve feels like it kind of goes straight. It doesn’t have that like (Pete] Sampras swing on it where it’s tailing away from you and you’re kind of having to chase it. “It’s like, if you read it right, you can kind of square it up and get that good pop sound to it. So I think the serve is the most obvious place to improve with Alcaraz.”

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    Last edited by jimlosaltos; 02-09-2024, 10:00 AM.

  • #2
    Those are rather odd descriptions by Roddick but I think I get what he means. I remember watching Michael Chang's serve many years back when he was 17 and wondering where he could go with a serve like that and how might it improve (I felt like that about much of his game actually), and Chang's serve never really got much better. I felt the same about Novak's serve around 15 years or so ago and his serve did get much better. I don't remember who coached Novak to a better serve but he did an amazing job.

    When I watch Carlos serve I wonder where it can go with its current mechanics - not very far is the answer. It's reached an impasse. He needs a really good coach to help develop his serve before it's too late. That's the scary thing. Carlos is already a brilliant player but with much more in the tank if someone were brave enough to mine it and Carlos were receptive. I had a colleague who spent a lot of time observing many Spanish coaches. They tend to be not too over technical when it comes to serves and it shows with many Spanish players....Lopez excluded.

    I would radically overhaul Carlos's serve...don't get me started.
    Stotty

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    • #3
      Originally posted by stotty View Post

      I would radically overhaul Carlos's serve...don't get me started.
      Please do. You can blame me

      Changing gears, I was struck by Andy's description of the difficulty of getting a square hit on Fed's serve, "the ball’s sliding against your racket and it just feels a little bit squirrely – so where you’re kind of hitting foul balls off the serve.​"

      We hear relentlessly about the velocity of shots, and topspin -- but spin comes in different flavors.

      Is Fed aiming for that effect, not just placement, and movement in the air? How?
      Last edited by jimlosaltos; 02-12-2024, 12:07 PM.

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      • #4
        I think some players get their serve to break direction in the air later than others, which gives the receiver that sliding feeling on their racket because they can't track and get a good piece of it. This is similar to a late breaking pitch in baseball that some batters detest. Can anyone give examples of servers other than Fed who produce late breaking of direction on their serve? Any discussion on how and what speed to spin ratio creates this effect?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by doctorhl View Post
          I think some players get their serve to break direction in the air later than others, which gives the receiver that sliding feeling on their racket because they can't track and get a good piece of it. This is similar to a late breaking pitch in baseball that some batters detest. Can anyone give examples of servers other than Fed who produce late breaking of direction on their serve? Any discussion on how and what speed to spin ratio creates this effect?
          Great questions I'd love to hear answers to.

          I do know that if you ask this in a pro baseball discussion group, some people could go on endlessly.

          Shohei Ohtani (sort of the Fed of Major League Baseball) brought back a flat slider that has a ridiculously high swing-and-miss rate. On the other hand, every few years there is a high draft pick that can't make the majors because he throws a "60 foot curve ball", i.e. one that bounces in the dirt in front of the plate because it breaks too soon.

          While back I mentioned how MLB pitchers' training relies heavily on devices such as the Rapsodo, a $3,000 high-speed camera-based device that can measure ball spin, including the direction not just RPMs. Rapsodo measures components of spin on a baseball pitch, and describes how the pitch will or will not break in turns of percent of spin that is gyro spin. Pitching coaches discuss "spin efficiency".

          I recall a MLB pitching coach helping an aging pitcher on a great comeback telling him to "push down harder with your index finger to generate more gyro spin to make the slider move more."

          Let me dig around on the tubes of the inter web and .... here is a readout of pitches that gives the vertical break, the horizontal break, max RPM, spin efficiency, spin direction.

          filedata/fetch?id=103392&d=1708039858&type=thumb
          Last edited by jimlosaltos; 02-15-2024, 03:43 PM.

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          • #6
            And And a different readout, again showing the axis the spin is around, and ball movement.

            Presumably Rapsodo could make this camera work with tennis. The camera started out in golf and was reprogrammed for baseball. If it can read the dimples on a golf ball, I assume it would read a tennis ball's seams. Anyway I'd love to see this kind of info on a tennis serve.

            filedata/fetch?id=103394&d=1708040115&type=thumb
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            Last edited by jimlosaltos; 02-15-2024, 03:41 PM.

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            • #7
              Yes. I would like to see that data. I have hit a similar late - breaking " snap hook " golf drive that has a tremendous horizontal break(which is great if the fairway bends left, but I manage to do it on a straight fairway)!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by doctorhl View Post
                Yes. I would like to see that data. I have hit a similar late - breaking " snap hook " golf drive that has a tremendous horizontal break(which is great if the fairway bends left, but I manage to do it on a straight fairway)!
                Hah! Timing is everything

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