Pat Cash on the Volley - Part 1

[doctorhl]

Yep I don't know. Just seems like a possible theory.

Agreed. Athletes with the height, wingspan, fast twitch and eye/ hand coordination of a Kyrgios who can channel a disciplined serve and volley game with a big kickserve and swing volley is a real possibility. Heck, he can even drop volley off a swinging volley.

[stotty]

Pat Cash v Stefan Edberg...just lovely to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co34F0jQsAM

[tennisskip1515]

I've said it before but I think regular net play could come back with NBA style athletes who could kick the serve over the returners head, make it to the service line for a first volley and finish points with swinging volleys.

I think this entirely possible, given that Edberg and Rafter both managed (#understatement) with serves that were not the biggest of their day, when "big" is measured by mph. The extreme arc of their serves and the bounce gave them time to firmly establish themselves for their first volleys.

There are other factors involved today imo.

The first is that mid-court rips are now hit as approach shots. As we all know the speed of these shots far exceed what was possible* years ago. That means there's less time to get into good position for the next shot, ostensibly a volley. As an adjunct to that, hitting that ball as big as folks do means they so often have to go crosscourt in order to have enough turf into which to land the ball. We know that's problematic geometrically.

So knocking the cover off the ball means approaching down the line is chosen less often because they can't hit big and know they have enough room to make their shot, though it'd be better vis a vis the geometry of the court.

Further, this mid-court rip is now used as an approach (sic) from further back, giving them even less time to get in position since they have to run still further.

To illustrate my points, watch today's matches and see how often an incoming player is passed, but is only 1 step inside the service line (or less) when the ball goes past them. Who of us who grew up with s&v were worried by volleyers who were that far from the net? (And that's without today's topspin.)

I think there's a place for sliced approaches, off both wings, as they give the player more time to get into position. If their shot lands deep enough the pass is far from a given, and volleyers *expect* to volley. Ideally only once per point. : )

*Perhaps the speed was possible, but surely not in anything approaching a consistent fashion, which meant no one did it.

[stotty]

At the risk of dating myself, I remember Jack Kramer saying that tennis would be taken over by players with physiques like that of Michael Jordan.

Yet the year-end world number one remains 6 ft +/- 2in for most of several decades with no big threats on the near horizon ( Well, Sinner is probably 6 ft 4 despite being listed at 6.2 )

Sure...but players are getting taller and the taller players have been nudging more and more towards the top spots.

[jimlosaltos]

Yes I remember you saying that a while back. I just wonder what would precipitate that since we are nowhere near it at the moment.

At the risk of dating myself, I remember Jack Kramer saying that tennis would be taken over by players with physiques like that of Michael Jordan.

Yet the year-end world number one remains 6 ft +/- 2in for most of several decades with no big threats on the near horizon ( Well, Sinner is probably 6 ft 4 despite being listed at 6.2 )

[johnyandell]

Yep I don't know. Just seems like a possible theory.

[stotty]

I've said it before but I think regular net play could come back with NBA style athletes who could kick the serve over the returners head, make it to the service line for a first volley and finish points with swinging volleys.

Yes I remember you saying that a while back. I just wonder what would precipitate that since we are nowhere near it at the moment.

[johnyandell]

I've said it before but I think regular net play could come back with NBA style athletes who could kick the serve over the returners head, make it to the service line for a first volley and finish points with swinging volleys.

[stroke]

If you watch the old Wimbledon clips of Edberg, Cash and the like, the first thing you notice is how much time they have at the net by comparison to today's players. Back then volleyers, while unarguably better technically, had time to set and compose. Today there is little chance of that unless a player moves to the net behind overwhelming firepower.

I do feel many top players seem to lack the confidence to bury easier volleys and that must surely be born from lack of practice. One thing I always do with my advanced players is to employ my hitters to feed them hundreds of high volleys to dispatch. All players get good at it with practice. It takes good technique and confidence to put away high, (supposedly) easy balls from around the service line.

The game and equipment has just changed as you point out. Almost all of the younger players are using lower static weight racquets(maybe, or maybe not higher swingweigts) than all the great volleyers used. These set ups are better for Sinner type groundstrokes, but maybe not for volleys. Sampras used an absolute hammer of a racquet. As did Becker, McEnroe, Cash, and Edberg. Even someone like Stefanek, who may have been one of the very last great volleyers(among single players).

[stotty]

If you watch the old Wimbledon clips of Edberg, Cash and the like, the first thing you notice is how much time they have at the net by comparison to today's players. Back then volleyers, while unarguably better technically, had time to set and compose. Today there is little chance of that unless a player moves to the net behind overwhelming firepower.

I do feel many top players seem to lack the confidence to bury easier volleys and that must surely be born from lack of practice. One thing I always do with my advanced players is to employ my hitters to feed them hundreds of high volleys to dispatch. All players get good at it with practice. It takes good technique and confidence to put away high, (supposedly) easy balls from around the service line.

[johnyandell]

Good points!

[tennisskip1515]

Totally agree with stotty, a good take on volleying.

I think the challenge for very young volleyers is even more tough than Fein's comment about modern juniors being able to hit topspin with today's strings. It's true, of course, but I'd say that more fundamentally it's just easier for a junior to make a successful passing shot attempt, topspin or no, with oversize, aerodynamic sticks. When Cash played, and more so earlier with much smaller heads (to say nothing of wood), simply getting the pass attempt in play was so much more difficult. Today, when a 4'10" junior goes to the net their opponent at the baseline is far, far more likely to hit the ball back and make the child at the net volley. Given their shorter reach and relative lack of experience it's tougher for that young volleyer to succeed. (And that doesn't begin to address protecting against lobs, which are also easier with today's racquets.)

Consequently one idea I drove home when teaching net play, to juniors or adults, was that losing at the net, while almost always more dramatic than points lost while at the baseline, still only garners your opponent 1 point. Volleyers have to be more inured to the apparent drama. New volleyers often abandon any idea of playing up front when they lose a point, even in practice. I usually replied with, "How come you don't give up playing at the baseline when you lose points there?"

Most times they got the, errrr, point.

[stotty]

Nice take on things. I have always used a strong continental for all my volleys whether high or low. I change the grip not one iota whatever the volley height. It's great for low volleys. On the low backhand volley it ensures not too much underspin is created. Within slender parameters I believe there is leeway on volley grips. It can be very much what you get used to. You can play pretty much any height volley with a strong continental once you've spent years adapting to it. I tend to teach a milder continental, however, which can also work very well.

Tony Trabert used a backhand grip for his backhand volley and was a strong advocator of changing grips much like Pat is.

I think a volleyer needs to be incredibly reflexive these days. Composure is hard to come by in a world-class doubles game where the ball is moving at any alarming speed and any kind of grip change is simply out of the question.

I have studied volley grips at Wimbledon and a lot err slightly too much toward the forehand, almost like juniors who get halfway learning the correct grip but never quite make the final tweak.

Players aren't as technically good at the net as they once were.

[johnyandell]

Let's get your thoughts on Paul Fein's article, "Pat Cash on the Volley - Part 1"