Teaching the topspin serve

[morespin]

I have a question that I'm hoping you all can help answer: Should the topspin serve be taught right from the beginning or should it be taught later in a player's development. Please explain your answer. Thank you.

[morespin]

I've been having this discussion with some coaches and there have been some differences of opinion.
What do you guys think?

[johnyandell]

I say second. First serve, then econd serve but not necessary thqt fqr apart depending on the development of the bqsic motion. All good serves have a topspin component. It's a matter of degree.

[stotty]

In my view, the kick/topspin serve is advanced and shouldn't be taught before the student is ready, technically or physically, to learn it. It also depends what kind of serve you are looking to build, whether a moderate topspin that aims for depth and clearance, or a real kicker. A kicker can be counter-productive unless it's done very well as it can just sit up to be hit. I tend to teach moderate topspin that offers reasonable clearance and good control, and retains a bit of pace.

[don_budge]

I've always thought that one teaches the slice first and then the logical progression is to make your way on upwards on the clock. Teach to spin the ball. Slicing the ball produces the obvious visual result as the ball slides away from the opponent...or into them as it is. Over spin is then the logical progression.

Depending upon the student of course...teaching the student to spin the ball is the first order of business. From a serving point of view. Slice spin is the easiest way to go. The student immediately can see that the ball "bends" or rather the path of the ball bends with the slice. They can observe how the ball reacts to the court surface with spin. Slice first and work your way up the ball from there. Over spin is not just over spin. It is degrees of over spin and degrees of separation from slice spin.

In the end you want them to grasp the entire ball of wax with the kick spin being the icing on the cake.

[stroke]

I too think teaching the slice serve first is the way to go. A true continental grip is very important in the learning process also. Basicly, one is just hitting the upper back right side of the ball for a slice serve, and the lower left side of the ball for a topspin/kick serve(as a righthander). Obviously, it is much easier to hit the right side of the ball, but as DB points out, once one truly learns to hit a decent slice serve, the foundation in there to move on to learning to attack the left side of the ball. The more to the left side of the ball one can get, the more kick action. Thiem and Berrenttini have 2 of the best. I don't know if I ever saw Roger miss one on a 2nd serve.

[morespin]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your opinions.

Does anyone feel that a flat serve should be taught first?

Does anyone feel that teaching a topspin-ish (not a kick or twist) serve before teaching other types of serves is counter productive?

[johnyandell]

Personally I don't think anyone should learn a completely flat serve. They should have some version of a serve grip and ball toss position to create at least a little spin.

[morespin]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate your input.

Anyone else have an opinion?

[morespin]

Here's what I teach to nearly 100% of my students:

Continental grip, toss near 12:00, a swing path up and out toward the side fence, follow through across the body. And we work on that mainly on the ad side. This produces a topspin serve. Sometimes a "slice" serve happens by accident which is fine. As the player gets stronger and can swing faster it becomes a kick serve pretty naturally. Maybe we can make it a twist when the player gets stronger.

I'm basically teaching the second serve first so the player doesn't even consider pushing a serve just to get it in. The biggest difference between a second serve and a first serve is how much drive the first serve has. Both serves have basically the same spin but one of them has more drive than the other. By moving the toss into the court a bit more the serve automatically becomes heavier. We work on keeping the left arm up while leaning into the court and pushing up with the legs to prevent rotating the body to the right.

I have my players play a set in which they only have one serve. If they push just to get the serve in the returner wins pretty easily. If they try to bomb flat serves they miss too many and the returner wins. If they hit topspin serves they get a high percentage in and the returner has a tougher time hitting an aggressive return. Problem solved!